This Game ALWAYS Feels Different

[nuckles2k2]

Quote: Originally Posted by 2_headedmonster

Listen, waaay back when changes were happening as a result of roster updates last gen, that no one believed and i put together a vid to prove it, i was preaching about the behind the scene changes.... I dont know if its a side-effect of so many things being interconnected on the back-end or intentional but this version is no different. Im not saying its night and day but i play this game waaaaay too much not to notice changes.

This is spot on.

I keep saying that it seems like some of this comes from 2K making changes in areas that are unrelated to gameplay.

Why?

I used to see some of these same things back on the 360 when I used to hex edit my files.

The unedited file would play one way, and the edited file would have everyone moving a touch faster, a little more "herky jerky" to their movements, distances closed for a block increased, AI teammates wouldn't guard people...and the changes I made were to my player in MyCareer.

Only code adjusted where my athletic attributes, and occasionally an accessory or two. The more changes I made, the worse the gameplay got. Now, this was MyCareer, so I had no access to sliders to counter some of the stuff, and I would just go back to my original un-edited file.

I don't think it's "behind the scene" changes from a standpoint that 2K are tweaking things. It seems that the source code is so fragile, a change here --->

can unintentionally throw off something over


---->here.


That's simply the nature of code depending on the architecture of it. If they're using the same codebase(and it looks like they are), it's a legacy issue. Something that's deeply rooted in the code that went unchecked way back when the codebase was first written. Some things are anchored so deep, it's not cost effective to step through the issue and try to find a resolution. Especially if it's not an impediment.

But if these unexplained changes that people are noticing were present in the last gen of consoles, and they're still present in this gen of consoles, the only common denominator is the code that makes up the game. And it doesn't look like 2K has overhauled their codebase.

It's not a question of "can you do what you want to do?" I wouldn't think that's the issue. You can always adjust. It's just a matter of "why don't my players move the same way they did on Sept 29th?" It's the same game, no?

It just seems so accepted that "welp, you're gonna have to just adjust to 2K..." but I don't know why, when we don't have this issue with other games.

Game speed turning up is not a purposeful tweak by the devs. I can say that with almost 100% certainty. Because it wouldn't make any sense, and it serves no purpose. That's the last thing a programmer does. Programmers follow YAGNI (you aren't gonna need it) and KISS (keep it simple, stupid), religiously.

We don't just implement stuff for the hell of it. Faster game speeds, out of nowhere, serves no purpose. It wasn't intentional.

But if those faster speeds appeared after a "Update Required: Return to Main menu", therein lies the theory that their changes to other portions of the game, is adversely affecting other areas (namely gameplay).

It's not a conspiracy theory, I'm not talking about nonsense like "comeback code"; I'm simply talking about how the delicate balances of any codebase can be thrown off. 2K devs are the only ones who can unit test it, which would probably be outside of their workflow...so basically, it is what it is.

Probably the wrong place to have this discussion tho.

[Rockie_Fresh88]

It feels like the player movement in the pro am is super sloppy today.

[HowDareI]

Quote: Originally Posted by nuckles2k2

This is spot on. I keep saying that it seems like some of this comes from 2K making changes in areas that are unrelated to gameplay. Why? I used to see some of these same things back on the 360 when I used to hex edit my files. The unedited file would play one way, and the edited file would have everyone moving a touch faster, a little more "herky jerky" to their movements, distances closed for a block increased, AI teammates wouldn't guard people...and the changes I made were to my player in MyCareer. Only code adjusted where my athletic attributes, and occasionally an accessory or two. The more changes I made, the worse the gameplay got. Now, this was MyCareer, so I had no access to sliders to counter some of the stuff, and I would just go back to my original un-edited file. I don't think it's "behind the scene" changes from a standpoint that 2K are tweaking things. It seems that the source code is so fragile, a change here ---> can unintentionally throw off something over ---->here. That's simply the nature of code depending on the architecture of it. If they're using the same codebase(and it looks like they are), it's a legacy issue. Something that's deeply rooted in the code that went unchecked way back when the codebase was first written. Some things are anchored so deep, it's not cost effective to step through the issue and try to find a resolution. Especially if it's not an impediment. But if these unexplained changes that people are noticing were present in the last gen of consoles, and they're still present in this gen of consoles, the only common denominator is the code that makes up the game. And it doesn't look like 2K has overhauled their codebase. It's not a question of "can you do what you want to do?" I wouldn't think that's the issue. You can always adjust. It's just a matter of "why don't my players move the same way they did on Sept 29th?" It's the same game, no? It just seems so accepted that "welp, you're gonna have to just adjust to 2K..." but I don't know why, when we don't have this issue with other games. Game speed turning up is not a purposeful tweak by the devs. I can say that with almost 100% certainty. Because it wouldn't make any sense, and it serves no purpose. That's the last thing a programmer does. Programmers follow YAGNI (you aren't gonna need it) and KISS (keep it simple, stupid), religiously. We don't just implement stuff for the hell of it. Faster game speeds, out of nowhere, serves no purpose. It wasn't intentional. But if those faster speeds appeared after a "Update Required: Return to Main menu", therein lies the theory that their changes to other portions of the game, is adversely affecting other areas (namely gameplay). It's not a conspiracy theory, I'm not talking about nonsense like "comeback code"; I'm simply talking about how the delicate balances of any codebase can be thrown off. 2K devs are the only ones who can unit test it, which would probably be outside of their workflow...so basically, it is what it is. Probably the wrong place to have this discussion tho.

Nah this actually sounds plausible...

And how after they "fix" certain things, other things become outta control.

[quitdabull]

I only play every weekend and whatever strategy i used to get wins the previous weekend will get abused for a losing streak n back to the drawing board i go

[thescottyglasgow]

Quote: Originally Posted by quitdabull

I only play every weekend and whatever strategy i used to get wins the previous weekend will get abused for a losing streak n back to the drawing board i go

I notice that whenever I get the update message I have to go and practice to figure out the speed and shooting again. One day I am lights out with Clyde and then the next update can not shoot with him at all. The defense is really noticeable too because of the AI.

[HowDareI]

I know this is just my word with no visual evidence, but last night was fine.

It was normal 2K.

There was the bad block here or there, the turnovers that shoulda happened, and the shots that shoulda dropped...most importantly I could actually grab rebounds and wasn't getting fazed outta position.

Which I guess is good and bad, because yea the game's tolerable to me again but it just goes to show the game changes from day to day.

I don't mind adjustments to shots falling or how easy/hard it is to get dribbling turnovers or stuff like that...
But core mechanics just changing and weird slides and all that are too much.

[KingLouie]

I made an account just to reply to this post!! I thought I was going crazy. I mostly play park but even in pro-am it was the same way. Two days ago if you gave me the slightest bit of space I was knocking it down. Yesterday I couldn't throw a beach ball in the ocean. My GUARD would drop the ball if you sneezed on him and was blowing wide open layups left and right. I swear I've spent at least 10k VC on jumpers alone in jus one day.

And my center it's almost just as worse. I play low so my scoring remains pretty solid as most attempts are dunks and lay ups but I find myself being boxed out more often by small forwards despite being in front of them and in position first. When I do have to defend a guard or any center that likes to take jump shots they just throw it up in my face and its money 9 times outta 10.

On the defensive side it's a big difference as well. My guy seems to slide all over the place or freeze up if I just tap L2. I hardly get contact animations anymore and my opponents tend to just breeze past me. It's also a miracle if I get blocks when people drive the paint on my center regardless of how tall they are.

Never thought those updates added anything but jerseys or my park clothes or myteam cards but after this week I strongly believe they are tuning the game. Whatever it is I hope it's fixed by the end of the week.

[Magnus1959]

It's the NBA on ice today.