Playmaker grand badge deactivates LDD grand badge

[hanzsomehanz]

Quote: Originally Posted by Caelumfang

So I finally got a reply from Zach Timmerman, and he says he's now looking into the situation. Apparently he wasn't even aware that this was happening.

Good find here Cael and thanks for pressing the case on Zach 👌

Defensive Stopper (DS) is supposed to cancel our badges and HOF DS would do the same but somehow Playmaker Grand Badge is shutting down the LDD GB? That's so screwy and what a find!



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[SirGaryColeman]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rockie_Fresh88

Why make a LDD if you can only guard a sharpshooter lol No it wasn't meant to be like that. I can rip playmakers just fine and force them to pick the ball up. I personally haven't seen a Playmaker's grand badge cancel mine out.

I'm not saying you can only guard a sharp shooter, I'm saying you're the best at guarding a sharp shooter.

Just like (maybe) Playmakers are the best at getting around LDDs.

[SirGaryColeman]

Quote: Originally Posted by Thunderhorse

No, it still doesn't make sense. There is only 1 archetype in the game that directly competes with every other archetype - The LDD. There is no directly adversarial relationship between the offensive archetypes in this game. That relationship only exists between the offensive archetypes and the 2 defensive archetypes (Paint Protector/LDD). there is no Check/Balance (in the archetypal sense) between a Sharpshooter and a Shot Creator. They just score differently. Defensively they are essentially the same player. You can have a Sharpshooter matching up against my Slasher and it matters very little. Both of us will be able to score using the skills made available through the archetype, and neither of us will have badges that facilitate us shutting down the opponents game plan. The LDD has no true offensive skills. His skill is his ability to bring the HOF playmaker/shotcreator/sharpshoter back down to earth and force them to play like a normal player. When that offensive player my LDD is defending has also taken the time to unlock "defensive stopper", we essentially have two players without offensive badges playing.

That's a good point, but I still think it was meant to be the Rock/Paper/Scissor thing - just that they did a bad job of it.

I'm not saying this specific thing isn't a bug or whatever, but I really do think they want certain Archetypes to be able to counter other Archetypes. Even if everyone has similar Defensive caps, there are other factors like strength, speed, and the offensive attributes that would change the Archetypes ability to guard. If I'm slow and you're fast - then I will have trouble staying in front of you.

Do any Grand Badges ever blink off like that? I never noticed that.

[acetheredcomet]

This proves that LDDs are handicapped from the get go, whether it is not able negate ankle breakers or not being able to keep up with the left to right cheese, and finally not being able to get blocks on smaller players due to automatic animations. I hope that the LDDs get a boost sometime this year or in 2k18.

[jyoung]

If you look at their ratings and badges, the playmaker vs. lockdown defender should be a completely even matchup on the perimeter, with 94 ball control going against 94 steal, 94 speed with ball being matched by 94 lateral quickness, and hall of fame ankle breaker being completely negated by hall of fame defensive stopper.

It should be an even matchup in theory, but in reality, it's completely lopsided in favor of the playmaker.

The playmaker can make the lockdown defender stumble or fall down with a simple flick of the right joystick, even if the lockdown defender is in good position and has his grand badge glowing.

The playmaker's dribbling animations are also much faster than the lockdown defender's lateral slide animations, despite their speed ratings being equal. Even a sharpshooter or slasher who's just sprinting in a straight horizontal path with turbo held down will be able to outrun and turn the corner on a lockdown defender who's in his stance and is sliding laterally. Inertia and momentum also affect defenders much more in 2K games than they affect ball handlers, since playmakers are allowed to speed boost in any direction at will, whereas quickly changing directions just isn't possible as a defender.

For this playmaker/LDD matchup to work like it should, 2K would have to significantly increase the lateral movement slider, make it to where stumble/fall down animations never happen to LDDs, and tune some of the cheesy dribble moves like the hesitation normal 1 stepback that activate so quickly and create so much space that they have no existing defensive countermove. The best solution to that last problem is to have all stepback/hop step animations result in the ball handler picking up his dribble immediately afterward, since those moves are used in real life to create a quick jump shot, not to create the zig zag dribble pattern that cheesers have been abusing for several years now in 2K.

[Jesus_Swagglesworth]

Quote: Originally Posted by jyoung

The playmaker's dribbling animations are also much faster than the lockdown defender's lateral slide animations, despite their speed ratings being equal. Even a sharpshooter who's just sprinting in a straight horizontal path with turbo held down will be able to outrun and turn the corner on a lockdown defender who's in his stance and is sliding laterally. Inertia and momentum also slow down defenders much more in 2K games than they affect ball handlers, since playmakers are allowed to speed boost in any direction at will. For this playmaker/LDD matchup to work like it should, 2K would have to increase the lateral movement slider significantly, make it to where stumble/fall down animations never happen against a LDD, and tune some of the cheesy dribble moves like the hesitation normal 1 stepback that activate so quickly and create so much space that they have no existing defensive countermove. The best solution to that last problem is to have all stepback/hop step animations result in the ball handler picking up his dribble immediately afterward, since those moves are used in real life to create a quick jump shot, not to create the zig zag dribble pattern that cheesers have been abusing for several years now in 2K.

The true slowness of lateral quickness is very evident with regular players. I picked up on this early. It's hard to tell with the archetypes bc playmakers have 90+ speed & dribbling, but players with 90+ lateral quickness can't keep up with anyone.

You can take some of the slowest players and beat out any lockdown guy with a decent animation. The animations play out too fast compared to lateral speed.

IMO the best solution would be to make lateral speed more heavy handed as the ratings go up. I feel no difference between my 75 lateral quickness PG and 94 LDD PG. Keep the gradual lat speed increasing the same for 25-75 ratings and then have a massive increasing boost for anyone above 80ish

Forcing a dribble pickup on stepback animations is a good idea, but if they can normalize lateral quickness it wouldn't be needed imo

[Simhead23]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jesus_Swagglesworth

The true slowness of lateral quickness is very evident with regular players. I picked up on this early. It's hard to tell with the archetypes bc playmakers have 90+ speed & dribbling, but players with 90+ lateral quickness can't keep up with anyone. You can take some of the slowest players and beat out any lockdown guy with a decent animation. The animations play out too fast compared to lateral speed. IMO the best solution would be to make lateral speed more heavy handed as the ratings go up. I feel no difference between my 75 lateral quickness PG and 94 LDD PG. Keep the gradual lat speed increasing the same for 25-75 ratings and then have a massive increasing boost for anyone above 80ish Forcing a dribble pickup on stepback animations is a good idea, but if they can normalize lateral quickness it wouldn't be needed imo

That's what I was saying lmao 2k doesn't care about defense. It's been like that ever since 2k12 and 13 came back to haunt us during 15. 16 defense was alright but overrated because they nerfed the offense to ****. Now 17 is here and once again defense is a joke. Hope 2k18 is good. It's like they have a good game one year and a bad the next year

[Caelumfang]

Quote: Originally Posted by Simhead23

That's what I was saying lmao 2k doesn't care about defense. It's been like that ever since 2k12 and 13 came back to haunt us during 15. 16 defense was alright but overrated because they nerfed the offense to ****. Now 17 is here and once again defense is a joke. Hope 2k18 is good. It's like they have a good game one year and a bad the next year

I don't think it's a matter of 'not caring.' Rather, I think it comes down to the fact that, when they build the defensive system in their games, they almost NEVER take into account the faster animations and the ability to cancel some animations on offense vs the mostly uniform speed of defensive movement. They underestimate user ability to chain the fastest animations together, along with the ability to cancel some animations into others.