NBA 2k11 defense cpu AI is amazing

[SonicMage]

Quote: Originally Posted by isdatyt

Offense is so easy to quantify, but defense is incredibly hard, in almost any sports game, let alone one as fast-paced as NBA basketball. Not to make excuses for them, but I can see why defense is consistently an area of struggle for 2K.

Except this stuff is quantified. "How many times did the offensive player X get to the basket when player Y on defense went under the screen, no defensive switch, and nobody came to help?", stats like that do exist. It gets even more sophisticated than that.

Just pointing out that the whole "there are no good defensive stats" argument is a myth. And those I mentioned can be used to figure out the way in which teams and individual players work their defensive schemes, and how effective they are.

[EccentricMeat]

Quote: Originally Posted by Vroman

That play isn't good, but the defense rotation is the key point i wanted to showcase. 2k11 has bunch of things wrong, but its weird how such complex and important aspect of the game is well done that i'm almost thinking they would have better chance making excellent sim game by improving 2k11 rather 2k17. I'll try to record more once i get down to play it again.

I think your video is a little cherry-picked, honestly. The switching looks very similar to 2k17, you just got lucky in that this play the guy left open on the switch (Okafor I believe? Jersey #50) stood right next to his teammate so that they both were accidentally guarded by 1 defender. That defender isn't "guarding two people", he's guarding one while the 2nd just stands next to him.

Defense out of the box in 2k17 isn't great, I'll give you that. But simple slider tweaks can fix almost every issue brought up in this thread.

[Hustle Westbrook]

Quote: Originally Posted by EccentricMeat

I think your video is a little cherry-picked, honestly. The switching looks very similar to 2k17, you just got lucky in that this play the guy left open on the switch (Okafor I believe? Jersey #50) stood right next to his teammate so that they both were accidentally guarded by 1 defender. That defender isn't "guarding two people", he's guarding one while the 2nd just stands next to him. Defense out of the box in 2k17 isn't great, I'll give you that. But simple slider tweaks can fix almost every issue brought up in this thread.

Sliders aren't doing anything for people that play this game online, which is the majority of the 2K players. They're stuck with whatever awful defense 2K releases the game with.

[Vroman]

Some more plays recorded:

1)Another double screen. This time one of big rolls to the basket, but i fail to create anything from it. Artest hedges of the screen quite well and I got almost nothing to work with.

Spoiler

2) About to beat D.Fisher off the dribble, extra player collapse into paint and Artest hovers between Ariza and West, last moment he goes to cover west and Ariza misses open 3 off an extra pass.

Spoiler

3)Just an impact of good defender like Artest. Denies Ariza off the spot then uses the active hands to strip the ball.

Spoiler

4)After running that play dozen of times, first time defense do terrible with weak double team leaving Bellineli wide open on 3pt, bad rotation from Kobe too. Still had to use icon pass to hit him there and i probably wouldn't have seen it if played on 2k cam.

Spoiler

5)That double on Ariza caught me off guard, I could just take jumpshot there with West, but panicked and made bad pass. I really like how it can be unpredictable sometime and I have to react really quick or I'll fail like here.

Spoiler

6) And favorite offensive highlight so far. S.Blake stood no chance to keep up with cp3 and nice crafty finish near the rim:

Spoiler

[Black Bruce Wayne]

This is what I remember from NBA 2k11

https://youtu.be/K-A4pd8yNiA

https://youtu.be/rERVuA95o8E

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[ch46647]

Quote: Originally Posted by Vroman

Some more plays recorded: 1)Another double screen. This time one of big rolls to the basket, but i fail to create anything from it. Artest hedges of the screen quite well and I got almost nothing to work with. Spoiler 2) About to beat D.Fisher off the dribble, extra player collapse into paint and Artest hovers between Ariza and West, last moment he goes to cover west and Ariza misses open 3 off an extra pass. Spoiler 3)Just an impact of good defender like Artest. Denies Ariza off the spot then uses the active hands to strip the ball. Spoiler 4)After running that play dozen of times, first time defense do terrible with weak double team leaving Bellineli wide open on 3pt, bad rotation from Kobe too. Still had to use icon pass to hit him there and i probably wouldn't have seen it if played on 2k cam. Spoiler 5)That double on Ariza caught me off guard, I could just take jumpshot there with West, but panicked and made bad pass. I really like how it can be unpredictable sometime and I have to react really quick or I'll fail like here. Spoiler 6) And favorite offensive highlight so far. S.Blake stood no chance to keep up with cp3 and nice crafty finish near the rim: Spoiler

Great video examples!

Side note- I've never played 2K11 but I am impressed with how quick and responsive the player movement looks on offense AND defense. Also, I'm not seeing any of those defensive "stone wall" animations or any warping by defenders to get back into position.

Can we please get back to this kind of free moving/responsive player movement 2K? Preferably for 2K18....

[raiderphantom]

I still play 2K11 regularly. It does excel in a lot of areas but switching isn't one of them. Hard hedging is the default pnr defense so jumping out on a screen doesn't make the on ball defender think it's a switch. Spamming LT/L2 can help but it's not reliable. Still, defense did a lot of things well outside of spamming of paint passes. I love how you can actually bump players off ball in last gen. Now they just go right through you for a layup or alley oop

[ksuttonjr76]

Quote: Originally Posted by Black Bruce Wayne

This is what I remember from NBA 2k11 https://youtu.be/K-A4pd8yNiA https://youtu.be/rERVuA95o8E Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

I can't speak for MyCrew/MyPlayer, but the spin dunk glitch wasn't that rampant. I made a video where someone killed me with it; however, out of my 500+ games, I played maybe 3 players tops who used in NBA online mode.

My biggest takeaway about NBA 2K11 was that it's still the best H2H game to date. When I played it, everything just made sense, and I wasn't always complaining about this and that while playing against people online. The game was so balanced on offense and defense, and stick skills meant something. 7 years later, and we got players complaining about the damn green release and why they can't hit shots from half-court.