Get rid of archetypes and go to an unrestricted upgrade system?

[TheMattyT]

Quote: Originally Posted by howardphillips214

Playing off a slasher all the way into the paint isn't strategy, it's literally called "cheating" off your man. The problem with slashers is that we're not reliable. Sure, I'll hit 1 or two. But the best "slashers" in the game had jumpers. Jordan, Kobe, and Vince all had a mid range game before they developed a 3 ball. A 99 dunk shouldn't net me a 68 mid and a 60 3. Jordan's best years he barely shot .38 percent but he's got HOF deadeye and limitless and a 90 3 ball on this game? I'll settle for an 80 or close middie with a 70 3 ball.

Vince came in as a solid shooter. Neither Kobe nor MJ could shoot 3s very well at any point in their career. They are both more like shot-creating slashers, if we have to stay within archetypes. That gives you EXACTLY the ratings you're talking about.

[howardphillips214]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheMattyT

Vince came in as a solid shooter. Neither Kobe nor MJ could shoot 3s very well at any point in their career. They are both more like shot-creating slashers, if we have to stay within archetypes. That gives you EXACTLY the ratings you're talking about.

Slashing shot creators are GOOD at everything and not elite in anything. That's not what I'm talking about. Maybe Jordan in the wiz might fit that mold. And I'd say Kobe would be way more PURE shot Creator than anyone else.

But rookie Jordan would be 99 everything in the paint with HOF badges and an 80 mid and a 70 deep IMO. He only shot 28 percent from deep his rookie year but the 3 ball wasn't valued that high either back then. If Jordan was re drafted right now they'd be working on his release and shooting form, plus with the way the game is played now he'd have too much spacing to not get better looks. No hand checks and with legitimate stretch bigs on the floor, Jordan would probably shoot around 35 or better.

[Housh123]

The game turns to cheese every year because they give too much leeway ratings wise. Then smart players work around the loose ratings. Pure slashers get midrange in the 60s. We all know your hitting 8/10 of those wide open. 2k has to crackdown on that. It should be 40% make rate even with the release mastered.


Either go unrestricted or make people actually have weaknesses.

The way the game is built every position has around 3-4 magic archetypes that if you don’t pick them your basically screwed against a solid team. It shouldn’t work like that imo. 5 smart players should be able to put up a fight against any 5. I should be able to get 5 of any archetype and put up a fight against 5 of any other archetype but we all know that’s not gonna work. 5 amazing elite pure slashers will most likely lose against 5 elite lockdowns NO MATTER WHAT. Now there’s a conversation on if we think that’s how it should be but if that’s what you think then it goes back to my original point of giving archetypes DEFINED weaknesses. Pure slashers should be able to hit midranges sporadically WIDE OPEN. But NEVER 3s. But then again if it’s one on one the dunk or layup rate should be THROUGH THE ROOF. They shouldn’t get blocked one on one by ppl their same size or similar. Now if they tryna bang on 7 footers then that’s where they should struggle. Idc what your archetype is you shouldn’t be destroying 7 foot centers one on one with dunks. That’s when REALISM must be addressed.


Sharps can make 70% open 3s idc. But they should not be able to dribble at all. Give them a DEFINED weakness


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[TheFinalEvent97]

Quote: Originally Posted by howardphillips214

Slashing shot creators are GOOD at everything and not elite in anything. That's not what I'm talking about. Maybe Jordan in the wiz might fit that mold. And I'd say Kobe would be way more PURE shot Creator than anyone else. But rookie Jordan would be 99 everything in the paint with HOF badges and an 80 mid and a 70 deep IMO. He only shot 28 percent from deep his rookie year but the 3 ball wasn't valued that high either back then. If Jordan was re drafted right now they'd be working on his release and shooting form, plus with the way the game is played now he'd have too much spacing to not get better looks. No hand checks and with legitimate stretch bigs on the floor, Jordan would probably shoot around 35 or better.

The poster above yours is talking about a Shot Creating Slasher, at 6'6 with default wingspan+weight it gets 96 Driving Layup, 96 Standing Layup, 92 Driving Dunk, 88 Contact Dunk, 82 Open Shot Mid-range 76 Off Dribble Mid Range, 70 Open Shot Three, HOF Acrobat, Relentless Finisher and OMFB, Gold Posterizer and Tear Dropper.

[howardphillips214]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheFinalEvent97

The poster above yours is talking about a Shot Creating Slasher, at 6'6 with default wingspan+weight it gets 96 Driving Layup, 96 Standing Layup, 92 Driving Dunk, 88 Contact Dunk, 82 Open Shot Mid-range 76 Off Dribble Mid Range, 70 Open Shot Three, HOF Acrobat, Relentless Finisher and OMFB, Gold Posterizer and Tear Dropper.

Only problem with that build is the non HOF posterizer. Plus, if you Max out wingspan for dunks you lose that 70 3 ball.

I created a playmaking slasher to speed boost and dunk but gold doesn't trigger the animations enough. The 68 mid is not as consistent as you'd think and the 64 3 ball is almost useless.

[ILLSmak]

They just need to make archetypes that play more like real basketball players to change the meta so that the whole game isn't dudes jacking threes on the fast break. The issue with archetypes is none of them represent actual players or play styles. They are built around the meta when they should define the meta. Shooters and rebounders has been it since I started playing 5v5 10 years ago. It's time to change and make it more of a chess match. There should be at least a counter meta.

Changing upgrades won't change that. It only will give people different ways to do the same thing.

-Smak

[triplechin]

Quote: Originally Posted by ILLSmak

They just need to make archetypes that play more like real basketball players to change the meta so that the whole game isn't dudes jacking threes on the fast break. The issue with archetypes is none of them represent actual players or play styles. They are built around the meta when they should define the meta. Shooters and rebounders has been it since I started playing 5v5 10 years ago. It's time to change and make it more of a chess match. There should be at least a counter meta. Changing upgrades won't change that. It only will give people different ways to do the same thing. -Smak

Agreed, the system gives them the ability to change how the game is played easily to make it more balanced. Sick of sharpshooters hitting 80% from the hash.

[Yesh2kdone]

Quote: Originally Posted by ILLSmak

They just need to make archetypes that play more like real basketball players to change the meta so that the whole game isn't dudes jacking threes on the fast break. The issue with archetypes is none of them represent actual players or play styles. They are built around the meta when they should define the meta. Shooters and rebounders has been it since I started playing 5v5 10 years ago. It's time to change and make it more of a chess match. There should be at least a counter meta. Changing upgrades won't change that. It only will give people different ways to do the same thing. -Smak

I wouldn't be opposed to them giving us 60ovr versions of NBA stars, so for example, if we pick say Lebron, Giannis, Steph, KD, and Harden, then we can max out those player templates until we hit what the current attribute levels of those players. We have to have to use their height/weight, but then we get to make our own multi-dimensional players as opposed to monotonous and boring archetypes. When it comes to badges, then whatever badges your template superstar has, are the badges you can earn for your player.