 |
Quote: |
 |
|
|
 |
Originally Posted by guesswhozbak17 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I still remember the first online league I joined many 2K iterations ago. I remember the excitement I felt of finding a group of users that I would be able to play multiple seasons with and watch how the league would evolve.
In possibly, 9 consecutive past 2K basketball games, I want to say I have successfully COMPLETED a FULL season (14, 29, 56, 82 games) ONCE! I know there are successful leagues out there but it baffles me that in 9 games, the same core group of guys I play with, we're unable to successfully complete a season. Here are the reasons why I believe this problem exists:
Top Online League complaints
(Not my opinions, just what I've repeatedly heard/seen over the years)
1. Too many games/Too little games:
Users complain that the season is too long or too short. We've tried 14/29 games and the complaint becomes there aren't enough games to be played so Users are demanding we "sim to playoffs". Personally, I [b]Hate[b] simming any games.
Possible Solution: Set requirements to make playoffs. Ex. Users must play x-amount of games to make playoffs regardless of record; Users must win x-amount of games to make playoffs; custom rules to make playoffs (It takes away from the immersion of the NBA feel but I don't have a better solution at the moment)
When we've upped the games to 56/82 games, the complaint becomes there are too many games and it's time to "sim to playoffs". I'm not sure what the right amount of games to play is because most users WANT the option to rematch an opponent they've played but the problem lies in the INACTIVE users which brings me to the next complaint...
2. Inactive Users:
Gathering up 29 users to join a league is a chore. It's not like the good ol' college dormroom days anymore when most users were tied to similar schedules, the world is BIGGER. 29 different users have 29 different schedules, as well as multiple different times zones they are playing from. My 11 o'clock going on midnight on a work night might be the equivalent to someone else's 8 o'clock just getting ready to relax for a few hours on 2K. I don't remember which 2K it was but there was an iteration which had a league pace timer and simmed games automatically NO MATTER WHAT. Surprisingly, I kind of miss that. You either knew your schedule and were ready to play at set time or you weren't and there wasn't a debate. I love the control admins were given with the ability to SIM and unsim games but INACTIVES KILL leagues. I'm not sure what the solution to that is unless we take a step backwards and create leagues with less than 30 teams/users, but I am dissatisfied with the pattern of rallying good core group of guys only to have to deal with inactives then have to recruit another user to take the place of someone (more than likely) destroyed the teams roster and just stopped playing because they couldn't take the losses or life just hit them hard.
Possible Solution: Revert to setting exactly how many teams will be in league. Or give us the option for both (30 teams CPU and User or Set amount of Users [less than 30 teams])
3. Communication:
As an admin, gathering 30 Users is a chore. If I successfully complete that task, how does 2K assist me in allowing the other users to communicate with each other? For trades? For signing? To schedule games between users? There is no assistance. More times than not, the majority of users in the league don't ACTUALLY know each other. We have gotten creative enough to use apps on our phones. GroupMe has been the preferred app that we use to talk trash, set up games, discuss trades... what happened to the website 2K had dedicated to Online League users a few years back? Something like that would be outrageously useful! Knowing when guys are available to play (posted availability???) Just looking at whether a user's icon is green or not tells us very little on whether we realistically will be able to get a game in or not.
Possible Solution: Bring back the 2K website? Partner up with an app such as GroupMe? Possibly create a Universal 2K app JUST FOR MyLeague Online? Add a MyLeague Online option to the 2K app that is religiously released every year to scan our faces and try to get us to win VC...anything to connect users of MyLeague Online UNIVERSALLY.
*This could possibly open the door for users to upload highlights from games...Users could vote on top plays of the day/week/season.
4. League Changes/Notifications/News
I have joined plenty of leagues where there is CONSTANT cheating going on under the hood. Admins changing sliders to suit their style of play, co-admins changing the ratings of players on their team/opponent they're about to play, admins simming/resetting games that should not have been simmed/reset...a lot of fishy things going on. Not everyone has online morals. People WILL try to cheat if they don't get caught.
Possible Solution: Notify ALL users of ANY changes that impact the league that admins do. I shouldn't have to play a game against Tony Allen and watch him make 10 contested three and wonder what's going on only to have to dig into his attributes and notice an admin jacked up his shooting attributes to gain an advantage.
5. Coach Gameplan:
I spend a lot of time gameplanning defensive schemes versus my opponents players. It drives me crazy when a User trades away a player, the gameplan is completely reset and I have to do it all over for set player. I don't trust the ACE system enough to leave everything on automatic yet.
Possible Solution: Let me save my defensive gameplan either locally or on the cloud so that after I do it once, I never have to do it again unless I am making adjustments.
*I would love this option for Play Now Online as well.
**Tag On Roll seems to be an option you can change only in the gameplan screen and NOT in the in-game coaching screen.
6. Contracts:
Is it a technical reason that we went away from player contracts and to Keepers? This change was terrible in my opinion. It destroys trading balance, it destroys the value of younger players vs. older players, it destroys the concept of managing a team. Sometimes good players are let go because the team just can't afford him anymore. That aspect is completely out the window. Users SOLELY look at overall ratings to make trades, contracts should be apart of every trade discussion.
Possible Solution: Bring back contracts. Give us the option to choose between Keepers and contracts.
7. Injuries/Rest
Some users hate it, some love it. I love the idea of an injury taking place and having to adjust and figure out new ways to win without a key PIECE to your team. There are users who practically quit leagues because "Lebron is out for 3 games" because set User played Lebron the ENTIRE game and refused to make a substitution. I honestly wouldn't mind random injuries that don't happen in-game ala injuries from practice or something for users who play their guys without any thought of rest. PENALIZE these Users please!
I would like to lobby for the addition of games building up wear and tear to the player forcing us to have to think about resting players. I think it would be realistic for a Warriors user to consider resting KD, Steph, Klay because they're playing the lowly Nets and just game off a double overtime game against the Rockets. I personally think this would add to the immersion because all of us know that as a Nets user, you're not looking forward to playing a fully loaded Warriors roster.
Possible Solution: Deeper injury effects, rest option, In-game fatigue meters as well as Regular season fatigue meters.
*Younger players should have higher meters than older/injured players. Very few exceptions to the rule ex. Lebron James, but anything is possible.
That is all for now, when I come up with more ideas, I will post. Feel free to comments on your thoughts!
|
|
 |
|
 |
|
|
|
Quote: |
|
|
|
|
|
Originally Posted by guesswhozbak17 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I still remember the first online league I joined many 2K iterations ago. I remember the excitement I felt of finding a group of users that I would be able to play multiple seasons with and watch how the league would evolve.
In possibly, 9 consecutive past 2K basketball games, I want to say I have successfully COMPLETED a FULL season (14, 29, 56, 82 games) ONCE! I know there are successful leagues out there but it baffles me that in 9 games, the same core group of guys I play with, we're unable to successfully complete a season. Here are the reasons why I believe this problem exists:
Top Online League complaints
(Not my opinions, just what I've repeatedly heard/seen over the years)
1. Too many games/Too little games:
Users complain that the season is too long or too short. We've tried 14/29 games and the complaint becomes there aren't enough games to be played so Users are demanding we "sim to playoffs". Personally, I [b]Hate[b] simming any games.
Possible Solution: Set requirements to make playoffs. Ex. Users must play x-amount of games to make playoffs regardless of record; Users must win x-amount of games to make playoffs; custom rules to make playoffs (It takes away from the immersion of the NBA feel but I don't have a better solution at the moment)
When we've upped the games to 56/82 games, the complaint becomes there are too many games and it's time to "sim to playoffs". I'm not sure what the right amount of games to play is because most users WANT the option to rematch an opponent they've played but the problem lies in the INACTIVE users which brings me to the next complaint...
2. Inactive Users:
Gathering up 29 users to join a league is a chore. It's not like the good ol' college dormroom days anymore when most users were tied to similar schedules, the world is BIGGER. 29 different users have 29 different schedules, as well as multiple different times zones they are playing from. My 11 o'clock going on midnight on a work night might be the equivalent to someone else's 8 o'clock just getting ready to relax for a few hours on 2K. I don't remember which 2K it was but there was an iteration which had a league pace timer and simmed games automatically NO MATTER WHAT. Surprisingly, I kind of miss that. You either knew your schedule and were ready to play at set time or you weren't and there wasn't a debate. I love the control admins were given with the ability to SIM and unsim games but INACTIVES KILL leagues. I'm not sure what the solution to that is unless we take a step backwards and create leagues with less than 30 teams/users, but I am dissatisfied with the pattern of rallying good core group of guys only to have to deal with inactives then have to recruit another user to take the place of someone (more than likely) destroyed the teams roster and just stopped playing because they couldn't take the losses or life just hit them hard.
Possible Solution: Revert to setting exactly how many teams will be in league. Or give us the option for both (30 teams CPU and User or Set amount of Users [less than 30 teams])
3. Communication:
As an admin, gathering 30 Users is a chore. If I successfully complete that task, how does 2K assist me in allowing the other users to communicate with each other? For trades? For signing? To schedule games between users? There is no assistance. More times than not, the majority of users in the league don't ACTUALLY know each other. We have gotten creative enough to use apps on our phones. GroupMe has been the preferred app that we use to talk trash, set up games, discuss trades... what happened to the website 2K had dedicated to Online League users a few years back? Something like that would be outrageously useful! Knowing when guys are available to play (posted availability???) Just looking at whether a user's icon is green or not tells us very little on whether we realistically will be able to get a game in or not.
Possible Solution: Bring back the 2K website? Partner up with an app such as GroupMe? Possibly create a Universal 2K app JUST FOR MyLeague Online? Add a MyLeague Online option to the 2K app that is religiously released every year to scan our faces and try to get us to win VC...anything to connect users of MyLeague Online UNIVERSALLY.
*This could possibly open the door for users to upload highlights from games...Users could vote on top plays of the day/week/season.
4. League Changes/Notifications/News
I have joined plenty of leagues where there is CONSTANT cheating going on under the hood. Admins changing sliders to suit their style of play, co-admins changing the ratings of players on their team/opponent they're about to play, admins simming/resetting games that should not have been simmed/reset...a lot of fishy things going on. Not everyone has online morals. People WILL try to cheat if they don't get caught.
Possible Solution: Notify ALL users of ANY changes that impact the league that admins do. I shouldn't have to play a game against Tony Allen and watch him make 10 contested three and wonder what's going on only to have to dig into his attributes and notice an admin jacked up his shooting attributes to gain an advantage.
5. Coach Gameplan:
I spend a lot of time gameplanning defensive schemes versus my opponents players. It drives me crazy when a User trades away a player, the gameplan is completely reset and I have to do it all over for set player. I don't trust the ACE system enough to leave everything on automatic yet.
Possible Solution: Let me save my defensive gameplan either locally or on the cloud so that after I do it once, I never have to do it again unless I am making adjustments.
*I would love this option for Play Now Online as well.
**Tag On Roll seems to be an option you can change only in the gameplan screen and NOT in the in-game coaching screen.
6. Contracts:
Is it a technical reason that we went away from player contracts and to Keepers? This change was terrible in my opinion. It destroys trading balance, it destroys the value of younger players vs. older players, it destroys the concept of managing a team. Sometimes good players are let go because the team just can't afford him anymore. That aspect is completely out the window. Users SOLELY look at overall ratings to make trades, contracts should be apart of every trade discussion.
Possible Solution: Bring back contracts. Give us the option to choose between Keepers and contracts.
7. Injuries/Rest
Some users hate it, some love it. I love the idea of an injury taking place and having to adjust and figure out new ways to win without a key PIECE to your team. There are users who practically quit leagues because "Lebron is out for 3 games" because set User played Lebron the ENTIRE game and refused to make a substitution. I honestly wouldn't mind random injuries that don't happen in-game ala injuries from practice or something for users who play their guys without any thought of rest. PENALIZE these Users please!
I would like to lobby for the addition of games building up wear and tear to the player forcing us to have to think about resting players. I think it would be realistic for a Warriors user to consider resting KD, Steph, Klay because they're playing the lowly Nets and just game off a double overtime game against the Rockets. I personally think this would add to the immersion because all of us know that as a Nets user, you're not looking forward to playing a fully loaded Warriors roster.
Possible Solution: Deeper injury effects, rest option, In-game fatigue meters as well as Regular season fatigue meters.
*Younger players should have higher meters than older/injured players. Very few exceptions to the rule ex. Lebron James, but anything is possible.
That is all for now, when I come up with more ideas, I will post. Feel free to comments on your thoughts!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
OP, this is a fantastic post and is to be commended. You, along with others in this thread have outlined some of real and valid paint points that prevent others from realizing the full potential of this mode. Part of it is on 2k for not fulling porting over the offline myleague to online, and part of it is this new wave of 2k hoopers that are more into the myplayer/park/pro am modes that vastly outnumber the OA/OL/MLO community. Below are some of the solutions that I have used to run leagues since 2k9, with the hallmark always being to finish what you start, no matter the obstacles that are presented when trying to get 30 users to keep their eye on the prize of sustaining a viable online league filled with committed users who will never abandon their team.
Step 1: Let the users know that they are committing to several and not just ONE season when choosing a team in the OA.
When creating an online league/association, team selection is never equitable. Real roster leagues will always have winners and losers with regards to some users getting better teams than others. If you are not lucky enough to have users who rep for their favorite and or home town teams like most successful leagues do, then you are automatically face the dilemma of inequitable distribution of teams when it comes to the haves and have nots. Now some may say to do a fantasy draft league, but that is anathema to me and most sim heads like to take the nba as it is in its current state, and then dole out teams to users knowing that they will have full GM responsibilities to mold the franchise into their liking with the aim of eventually winning a championship. If everyone played one and done seasons leagues then the original team selections would automatically create an unbalanced league prone to having users quit of frustration due to inequitable team distribution. What is the incentive for a user to take the Nets, Hornets, or Hawks if they are not innate fans of those teams? This is why I have always been at 2k's throat for not giving us a full blown Online Association that is continuous and perpetual with contracts, free agency, progressions, regressions, and the rookie draft. With great stick skills and GM skills, a user can theoretically turn around any franchise from its original state; if not in one season, then definately after multiple seasons and off-seasons. Remember, we use the real life NBA Collective Bargaining Agreement with accurate cap and luxury tax ramifications. I joke all the time that my love of online leagues have enhanced my knowledge of the Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA) more than some nba media members in real life
Take for example the nets user in my MLO. He started with the stock nets in season, and was good enough on the sticks to win games with them; to the extent that he was a viable free agency destination to land lebron and jj reddick in free agency, while drafting Mikal Bridges to add to a stock roster that already had young talent that progressed over the course of the OA in DLO, RHJ, Jafro, Crabbe, etc. It was wonderful to see the Nets get transformed into a juggernaut over the course of the OA, just like I'm sure their GM in real life Sean Marks would like to do over the next couple of years. This can only happen IMO with 29 game seasons that allow for multiple offseasons, giving owners a chance to improve their teams via trade, free agency, and drafting and developing.
Step 2: Create an incentive structure that rewards activity and promotes the universal notion that all users are there to play games against other humans in a sim setting; with all excuses falling on deaf ears.
Since the dawn of time, online leagues have thrived and failed due to the activity of the user base in either scheduling and playing their games, or making excuses, losing interest, or down right quitting in frustration. After years of running leagues, I have learned that the head commish or admin needs to be a strict dictator while being militaristic in pursuing total and complete accountability for all members of the league in getting their games in. Tactics that I have used are keeping an activity chart that updates daily based on games played by each owner, with deadlines that need to met each week. Owners that are consistently falling behind or simply cannot keep up with the pace of the league are swiftly replaced and booted. This then sends a message to the rest of the league that inactivity will not be tolerated. Keeping a healthy waitlist of users who have access to the league website and chat communication system and yet not the league itself, keeps a consistent pressure on the active owners to do their jobs and hoop or face the consequences.
Step 3: Create an incentive system that gives both good and bad franchises a means to improve their team as the Online Association/League progresses through the seasons.
Its not just enough to demand activity from your owners, especially when running a 30 man league. Though each owner may have different motivations for continuing in the OA win or lose, I have found that using the carrot and stick approach works really well for sustaining a longterm league that has dedicated owners returning every season and every 2k cycle. These incentives help to motivate both the good and bad teams in the league; giving them something to look forward to as they try use the incentives below in their team building and roster construction philosophies that allow them to compete. This psychological trick of having end-of-season incentives has been wildly successful in bringing owners back season in and season out. If owners meet their activity requirements, then they will get whats theirs and if they dont they will be at such a disadvantage in losing out on the incentives that it almost becomes franchise suicide to not meet your activity requirements.
It is not enough to simply provide incentives. Many in this thread have mentioned the necessity of a chat, website, or forum as the primary communication tool to facilitate the coordination and scheduling of games. For years we used Groupme, but now Dischord, Whatsapp, or even Viber have provided amazing communication platforms to disseminate league announcements to all members in real time.
Step 4: Use a real life lottery system that determines the rookie draft order each season. A great site is called tankathon that simulates the lottery based on your the standings of your league. Note: the myleague online lottery menus are not accurate for determining draft order. There are winners and losers in online leagues, but it doesnt have to be a zero sum game. Bottom feeders have no reason to continue in the OA if they cant see a future or a light at the end of the tunnel that rewards their commitment and dedication to their teams through good seasons and bad. Building through the draft remains one of the best means of building a contender in 2k if the league is set up to a multi season OA and not a one and done season.
Tankathon Website Lottery Generation Tool
Inaccurate MLO Lottery Odds Menus
Step 5: Go the extra mile to create an offseason tool that governs player movement, trades, and free agency.
Since 2k refuses to abandon the trash keeper system, perhaps the most arduous and painstaking task of league commishes and admins that wish to replicate the offline myleague with online myleague is to create a database repository that has all player contracts in both length and value. This sheet governs all player movement, trades, and offseason free agency activity. I will leave it to my fellow commish and longtime OA advocate and sim league enthusiast Swimfunk to go into the details of this system, as he is the brains behind it. Rumors abound that if 2k once again fails to give us the motherlode of a complete OA with contracts and free agency, Swim will be making his FA calculator and spreadsheet tool that simulates free agency available to the MLO community. More details to come on that after tommorrows announcement for the features in 2k19 MLO. Suffice it to say this system is so intricate, thorough and detailed that it rivals offline myleagues offseason and in some ways does a better simulation of free agency due to having actual humans in the 30 man league that are making FA and front office decisions on behalf of their franchise and not the CPU. Watch the video below get a glimpse of how the system works, with the bidding and awarding of FAs, notwithstanding the algorithmns and complx formulas that are running behind the scenes.
Watch swimfunk_tv from Swimfunk_tv on www.twitch.tv
There are so many other little tricks of the trade that come with running, maintaining, and sustaining a 30 man MLO. It is not easy, but with a dedicated team of admins, and owner base with the common denominator of being hoop heads who love the life real nba, along with all the intricacies of roster and Cap management that involves being just as good in the front office as you are on the sticks, this community can thrive. OS is just heavily skewed towards users who want to play offline myleague against the cpu. Once you get out of the OS bubble, there is a vast MLO community that have quietly taken matters into their own hands to replicate the offline myleague into the existing MLO structure. They got tired of complaining and actually developed solutions and work arounds. Regardless of what 2k announces tommorrow with regards to MLO, the community will still thrive in the shadows and on the margins so long as the mode exists. Where there is a will, there is a way. Long live Online Franchise Fanatics!
08-01-2018, 07:03 PM
