Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

[chia51]

Update on WIP - 4/19 @ 1125am EST

Sent PM's to a few people to check out some things for me. Please send me a PM back if you can help or not, no biggie if not.

Have had the NBA statistics for a while now on an Excel spreadsheet. Finally got a chance to sit down and actually look at them. (Noticed Oraeons thread about statistics with the sliders and coaching sliders) so I took some of his knowledge/results and compared it with what I have been testing on my personal test files.

I have mad respect for Oraeons methods as he and I have done similar work with NCAA 11. So with that in hand, some of my coaching sliders were very similar to what he came out with.

I have therefore taken some of his coaching sliders and used them in my coaching sliders as his are based on statistics and mine although similar in numbers were based on my intuition of the teams and how the game plays.

Some theories that I am testing.

- Coaching tendencies override the Players tendencies.
- Gameplay sliders are an amplifier to the ratings and tendencies with + or - Neutral being 50 creates neither a + or - on ratings/tendencies
- Putting gamplay tendency sliders at 0 will default the players tendencies to whatever the coaching tendencies are. (for those tendencies, ie. Inside, Attack, 3pt etc.)
- If 50 is neutral (which I believe) than increasing it to 100 would double the rating, while decreasing it to 0 would reduce the rating to 0. (for example; Rose has an attack tendency of 99. If we went into the game play sliders and reduced it to 0 then it should change his attack tend. to 0 for game play, but since the coach has an attack tendency it would therefore default to that rating {or some variation of the players in combo with the coaches} or strictly the coaches attack tend.) Okay so now if we change the coaches to 0 and game play to 0, what happens? Well I can tell you that the player won't attack. He may penetrate or drive but won't attack the rack.

- There are tendencies that we assume would be the same, but they aren't. For example, Drive the lane, penetrate, attack. We assume that they are all one in the same, but they are vastly different to what happens on the court.

Drive the lane means how often the player will drive to the rack with the intentions of scoring.

Penetrate means how often the player will "drive" to the paint without going for a score.

Attack is how often the player will finish after the drive, not the penetration.

So if you look at the coaching slider for attack, you would now think that it will increase the chance of the player finishing at the rim. But no, the definition states "how often the player will drive" so if attack is raised it will increase how often the player goes to the rack, but the individuals attack finish ratings will determine what he does (either lay, dunk or pass out)

Pass Out tendency is shown with attack tendency in the player. So you would think that it would be out of 100, either 99 attack and 1 pass out or whatever combo equaling 100 but no. These tendencies work with each other but they are weighted tendencies. We can turn them into 100 based tendencies though if we apply the 100 method. But with them being weighted if you have Attack at 90 and pass at 10 then it will be the same as having them base 100. But what if they are both 90, well then the player gets an even shot at either an attack finish or pass out.

Enough thinking out loud for now, I will continue this tomorrow. I wish 2k would just let us know how all this ish works together.

[Colts18]

I have ALWAYS thought that coach sliders (shooting sliders (plus drive)) should be at 50. I always was under the impression that they screw up tendencies.

[ONEFORALL]

I tested some against the Lakers. I put 0 on all gameplay tendency sliders and also 0 for every gameplay tendecy for the Lakers and played a game against them. The game feels much better this way. Kobe plays like Kobe. I havent seen Kobe penetrating and dishing it out to Gasol for a jumper like in real life until now. Atleast Lakers played more like in real life. I have to now put all those tendencys to other teams and do more testing.

[JohnDoe8865]

chia, I havent had a chance to test yet, but i will as soon as i can

[chia51]

Quote: Originally Posted by Colts18

I have ALWAYS thought that coach sliders (shooting sliders (plus drive)) should be at 50. I always was under the impression that they screw up tendencies.

That's what I am trying to figure out right now. I am also under the impression that the gameplay tendency sliders should be at 50 otherwise they would be altering the players tendencies from what they show in the roster edit screen.

Quote: Originally Posted by ONEFORALL

I tested some against the Lakers. I put 0 on all gameplay tendency sliders and also 0 for every gameplay tendecy for the Lakers and played a game against them. The game feels much better this way. Kobe plays like Kobe. I havent seen Kobe penetrating and dishing it out to Gasol for a jumper like in real life until now. Atleast Lakers played more like in real life. I have to now put all those tendencys to other teams and do more testing.

Could you let me know what gameplay sliders specifically you put at 0 and also did you mean the Lakers coaching sliders? I know you said all, but if you could list them it would help immensely.

Quote: Originally Posted by JohnDoe8865

chia, I havent had a chance to test yet, but i will as soon as i can

Thanks, let me know how it goes.

[Colts18]

Yea Chia, Tendency Sliders and Coach Shooting Related Tendency Sliders have always been left at 50 on my games. I only believe in altering the fastbreak/tempo and other things that the coach actually dictate.

Global Tendency Sliders should be left at 50 as well.

[chia51]

Quote: Originally Posted by Colts18

Yea Chia, Tendency Sliders and Coach Shooting Related Tendency Sliders have always been left at 50 on my games. I only believe in altering the fastbreak/tempo and other things that the coach actually dictate. Global Tendency Sliders should be left at 50 as well.

Agreed, the global tendencies sliders should be left at 50 unless you are wanting to alter all of the players tendencies (for that particular tendency).

What I am specifically trying to figure out is... If a coaching slider is at 50 (say alley oops) how does that effect the players ratings compared to the global tendency slider effect?

Also if a coaching slider is at 50, is that default, meaning that it does not have an altering effect?

I believe that if there is a corresponding coaching and player tendency than having the coaching slider at 50 is effecting the player tendency. So I have been putting those at 0 to see what happens. And either the coaching sliders don't really work or with them at 0 it will default that tendency to the players tendency.

[ONEFORALL]

I put 0 to inside,close,mid,3pt,attack basket, look for post from sliders. And from coaching i put 0 to inside, close, mid,3pt,attack basket, look for post. The spacing was much better. Lakers passed the ball from side to side and executed great offense. Run plays i had on 50. And i had DC:s plays. I had those inside - outside sliders on 50 but i'm testing now putting these on 0. Sorry about the confusing english. Not my first language.