2k's "slip n slide" physics and lack of contact (youtube video included)

[rangerrick012]

I'm sick and tired of coming to every thread and seeing people say SLIDERS SLIDERS SLIDERS when a legit thing is brought to the table about how badly this game was designed. For one, online you can't use sliders, and it feels like you're ice skating on defense. Offline it's the same way.

I don't understand why this was such a step back. Go back and play 2K11. You can actually stay in front of someone when you anticipate what they're doing. 2K12, even when you anticipate you get slid out of the way or some lame animation triggers to slide you away. It's dumb and it sucks.

[stillfeelme]

I have say I have seen all of this in the game.

IMO 2k did this to give the CPU easy points in the paint. No one conviently slides out of the way when they are in position to contest. Sometimes it is two defenders and they just move right out of the way to give a direct path to the hoop just like in one of his videos. There should be a level of default defense that is played in the NBA no one is sliding out of the way to give up easy layups especially the way it occurs in the paint in this game.

I hope 2K13 doesn't have to resort to this to give the CPU or another user easy points in the paint. Right now it seems like there is an on or off switch which makes them slide out of the way so to make sure there is no contact no matter how unrealistic it looks or happens. What they need is light contact, medium contact and hard contact.
Light contact could occur on layups in the paint sometimes, hop steps, medium contact on layups again most likely to be a foul, hard contact occurs when you are directly in front of the defender or defenders.

[sword1986]

To countermand this problem, I put the Blocking attribute slider to 100 so if I go for the big block well-timed I can swat the ball away since the contact in the paint is almost non-existent. I even have the Drive Frequency slider at 100 and the Contact Shot Success at 42 (NBA 2K11-esque).

[funkworthy]

Quote: Originally Posted by TDAWG89

Please tell me this is a joke

Naw dude, no joke. Sometimes when guys are hot, the slip and slide happens. When they are not, the contact animation is engaged.

If I'm playing, and I see this happen, I'm giving the ball back to the guy who did not draw contact. He's hot. If I'm coaching the D, I may take out the players this happened to, I may deny ball, switch up defensive schemes, take a time out. I'm going to recognize and adjust and try not to rage. Just like in the NBA, you've got to absorb runs if you're going to win.

Fact is, the game will not be able to 100% mirror reality and physics etc. Never. No game will. This game does a good job of finding a balance letting players get to the hoop sometimes and get shut down other times. Sometimes the seams in the game architecture show, as in these videos. It doesn't bother me.

[Kruza]

Quote: Originally Posted by rangerrick012

I'm sick and tired of coming to every thread and seeing people say SLIDERS SLIDERS SLIDERS when a legit thing is brought to the table about how badly this game was designed. For one, online you can't use sliders, and it feels like you're ice skating on defense. Offline it's the same way. I don't understand why this was such a step back. Go back and play 2K11. You can actually stay in front of someone when you anticipate what they're doing. 2K12, even when you anticipate you get slid out of the way or some lame animation triggers to slide you away. It's dumb and it sucks.

Playing on-ball defense is possible in NBA 2K12. As an on-ball defender in 2K12 you just have to pick a side to shade a ball handler once he puts the ball on the floor and move backward diagonally during his drive just like in real life. You'll sure enough draw a lot of body contact if done properly. You just can't stand still in front of a driving ball handler and expect to stop all of his forward momentum, or expect to stick to him like a magnet from stationary position to defend against a drive like what takes place in 2K11.

The problem I see in 2K12 is that this method doesn't work in this fashion all the time against a high-rated ball handler who drives to the cup (LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Russell Westbrook and Derrick Rose for a few examples). Granted, these guys are elite ball handlers, but they should still be able to be defended like everyone else to a lesser degree as opposed to being virtually indefensible because of how "slippery" they are in the game. As an on-ball defender I should at least be able to slightly redirect any elite ball handler not named LeBron James toward my help defenders near the hoop while making body contact if I properly shade him to go in the direction I want him to go on his drive to the basket.

Also, any mediocre-rated ball handler who performs any of the hop step moves or spin dribbles directly into defenders standing near the basket would often slide right by like what's shown in some of the examples that those YouTube videos blues rocker uploaded. Now what should happen during the latter scenario whenever a smaller ball handler collides with a player standing his ground near the basket is that the ball handler doing any of these moves should lose his balance (and also lose the basketball in some cases), and possibly get stonewalled too if that ball handler happens to bump into a much bigger and stronger man. Again, maybe not LBJ, but every other ball handler in this scenario should pay the price for suffering impact of that magnitude whenever making contact with a big man standing near the basket.

Both games have their own respective body contact issues, but after extensive play of both games I find that 2K12 is certainly the lesser of two evils. Players actually have difficulty finishing out their play assignments on a routine basis in 2K11. During a called play a cutter moving in the lane would get repeatedly bumped due to over-exaggerated body contact which stops their movement, then that player would casually walk to the corner of the court and consequentially kill the play. It's like the cutters have completely forgotten what they were supposed to do in the first place.

Kruza

[The 24th Letter]

It's equally annoying when people say "you can't use them online" or in this and that mode, but they aren't even playing those modes lol....its like their using it as an avenue to continuing complaining honestly. That and "why should I have to use sliders?"

Fact is, no sliders don't fix some issues....but they do bandaid some things...at least try them out..

That said, HECK no I don't want 2k11's man on man D back.....I did go back and play and I couldn't stomach it. Collisions inside are a different story....I'm sorry, it was great in 2k11 besides a funky animation here and there....

[blues rocker]

Quote: Originally Posted by The 24th Letter

It's equally annoying when people say "you can't use them online" or in this and that mode, but they aren't even playing those modes lol....its like their using it as an avenue to continuing complaining honestly. That and "why should I have to use sliders?" Fact is, no sliders don't fix some issues....but they do bandaid some things...at least try them out.. That said, HECK no I don't want 2k11's man on man D back.....I did go back and play and I couldn't stomach it. Collisions inside are a different story....I'm sorry, it was great in 2k11 besides a funky animation here and there....

i think it's perfectly fine to judge the game based on how it plays online...since this is how a large portion of people play. since sliders cannot be adjusted online, the game should be fair and balanced without having to adjust sliders (and the physics should not be able to be exploited with certain moves which are invincible to contact - such as hop-steps, up-n-unders, and spin moves). it's pretty lame to expect people to just give up playing online. why not challenge the game maker to make a game that functions better without slider adjustements?

in regards to this contact problem sliders are a non-issue anyway - sliders won't correct it. i have both contact sliders cranked high in all of these clips, so clearly sliders aren't going to do a thing to address this.

Quote: Originally Posted by Kruza

Playing on-ball defense is possible in NBA 2K12. As an on-ball defender in 2K12 you just have to pick a side to shade a ball handler once he puts the ball on the floor and move backward diagonally during his drive just like in real life. You'll sure enough draw a lot of body contact if done properly. You just can't stand still in front of a driving ball handler and expect to stop all of his forward momentum, or expect to stick to him like a magnet from stationary position to defend against a drive like what takes place in 2K11. The problem I see in 2K12 is that this method doesn't work in this fashion all the time against a high-rated ball handler who drives to the cup (LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Russell Westbrook and Derrick Rose for a few examples). Granted, these guys are elite ball handlers, but they should still be able to be defended like everyone else to a lesser degree as opposed to being virtually indefensible because of how "slippery" they are in the game. As an on-ball defender I should at least be able to slightly redirect any elite ball handler not named LeBron James toward my help defenders near the hoop while making body contact if I properly shade him to go in the direction I want him to go on his drive to the basket. Also, any mediocre-rated ball handler who performs any of the hop step moves or spin dribbles directly into defenders standing near the basket would often slide right by like what's shown in some of the examples that those YouTube videos blues rocker uploaded. Now what should happen during the latter scenario whenever a smaller ball handler collides with a player standing his ground near the basket is that the ball handler doing any of these moves should lose his balance (and also lose the basketball in some cases), and possibly get stonewalled too if that ball handler happens to bump into a much bigger and stronger man. Again, maybe not LBJ, but every other ball handler in this scenario should pay the price for suffering impact of that magnitude whenever making contact with a big man standing near the basket. Both games have their own respective body contact issues, but after extensive play of both games I find that 2K12 is certainly the lesser of two evils. Players actually have difficulty finishing out their play assignments on a routine basis in 2K11. During a called play a cutter moving in the lane would get repeatedly bumped due to over-exaggerated body contact which stops their movement, then that player would casually walk to the corner of the court and consequentially kill the play. It's like the cutters have completely forgotten what they were supposed to do in the first place. Kruza

my videos aren't really about perimeter contact when playing on-ball defense...these videos are more about the lack of contact on specific interior moves like inside shots, hop-steps, and spins.

the perimeter bumping that occured in 2k11 was a different category. they removed the perimeter bumping from 2k11, but there is still a whole category of problems in 2k12 with these unstoppable interior animations

[blues rocker]

Quote: Originally Posted by funkworthy

Fact is, the game will not be able to 100% mirror reality and physics etc. Never. No game will. This game does a good job of finding a balance letting players get to the hoop sometimes and get shut down other times. Sometimes the seams in the game architecture show, as in these videos. It doesn't bother me.

this isn't quite true. They already have physics engines, like the Euphoria engine, which replicate truly realistic contact between solid objects (seen in games like GTA and Backbreaker). it's just that as of now 2k has been unable to implement something like this. hopefully sometime in the next generation 2k will finally implement a real contact physics engine.