7 Minute NBA Elite 11 Video (Gamespot)

[loadleft]

Now that I think about it, it might not be artificial to go cold if teammates are "shot out of the game". Lots of players go cold when they stand around watching someone else shoot. I am sure synergy provides enough info to calculate how often (such as every 5 minutes or whatever) each player shoots in real life. It could easily be set that if they don't get within range of this frequency they could go cold. Just a thought, but my focus is mainly there is a reason why Fisher doesn't shoot that often and if he can shoot at above 50% or even low 40's from 3 as long as know one is in his face it would behoove the Lakers to get him more shots in that situation. Wouldn't it?

[ParisB]

Quote: Originally Posted by loadleft

Now that I think about it, it might not be artificial to go cold if teammates are "shot out of the game". Lots of players go cold when they stand around watching someone else shoot. I am sure synergy provides enough info to calculate how often (such as every 5 minutes or whatever) each player shoots in real life. It could easily be set that if they don't get within range of this frequency they could go cold. Just a thought, but my focus is mainly there is a reason why Fisher doesn't shoot that often and if he can shoot at above 50% or even low 40's from 3 as long as know one is in his face it would behoove the Lakers to get him more shots in that situation. Wouldn't it?

because the Lakers usually have an advantage at SG, PF, C positions and run their triangle offense through their big men and Kobe. Fisher knows his role.

A lot of guys are good shooters, that's part of why they're in the NBA...doesn't mean you cater the whole offense around them. You don't see Toronto running everything to get Kapono open, or Utah ignores Dwill and Boozer so Korver can shoot everything. And he does take the shots he needs to. That Game 3 in Boston, LA realized that if Kobe sets the pick on Fisher, both defenders would cheat towards Kobe...that's when Fisher was able to muster just enough offense and knock down the big shots.

I think a lot of this "advanced" programming can come later...as long as the core mechanics and controls are there, it will open up a solid foundation to build on. We have to have realistic expectations too, and we are playing a video game after all. It's going to be a LONG TIME before we start seeing perfect AI and perfect attributes/tendencies in which the CPU plays like the real players and teams and coaches, know what I mean?

[jfsolo]

The last few posts in this thread underscore how difficult it is to program in all the subtle nuances of what happens during a basketball game.

The idea about their being a negative consequence of players not getting enough touches is very important.

He's starting to mature a little more in this regard, but we know that Andrew Bynum has a tendency to slack off on the boards and on defense if he's not getting enough looks on offense.

Artest will get itchy if he hasn't had a look in a while and this will increase his likelihood of jacking up an ill advised 3 when he does get the rock.

Farmar and Brown's defense and decision making improve immensely, when they get out and get a couple of dunks in transition.

Lamar will start boarding and blocking shots if he feels like the ref has jobbed him on a couple of calls in a row.

Getting all the A.I. controlled players(through the use of ratings and tendencies) to play with all of the real life nuances they possess, which are often antithetical to fundamentally sound, text book basketball, is the real challenge for developers.

I understand the need to optimize the hands on experience for the User, but that is only a part of the equation. The C.P.U. teammates and opponents need to be up to snuff as well.

[Playmakers]

Quote: Originally Posted by stepsix

Good post right here...Playmakers I've read a lot of your posts in the past and you obviously a) know your NBA and b) are passionate about seeing the CPU provide a challenging SIM experience. On to your point: - What I call point guard dominance in the AI is typically a result of the following two situations: 1) * PG is going to usually bring the ball up the court * With the ball in his hands, if the user isn't well positioned or provides a lane, then he's going to drive to the hoop 2) * of all the guys on the floor, it's usually going to be the PG or the SG who takes the most 3s * synergy does provide a catch and shoot tendency, as well as a spot up tendency * when the ball carrier drives, if someone rotates and leaves someone open outside the arc who's got a fairly high catch & shoot rating (see D Fish), there's a good chance he'll get the pass, and then shoot, resulting in skewed stats. I like your point about not shooting while guarded, I'm sure I can factor that into his tendency to catch & shoot.

That was a real quick response....

I'm glad you guys are listening to feedback because in years past I didn't feel like the player ratings and tendencies were being looked at closely while the game was under development before being released.

Thanks for giving the player tendencies a hard look this year. I'm more into offline dynasty play and that's why CPU/AI tendencies are really important for me and I'm sure many other NBA Elite/Live supporters in the community.

[loadleft]

Quote: Originally Posted by ParisB

because the Lakers usually have an advantage at SG, PF, C positions and run their triangle offense through their big men and Kobe. Fisher knows his role. A lot of guys are good shooters, that's part of why they're in the NBA...doesn't mean you cater the whole offense around them. You don't see Toronto running everything to get Kapono open, or Utah ignores Dwill and Boozer so Korver can shoot everything. And he does take the shots he needs to. That Game 3 in Boston, LA realized that if Kobe sets the pick on Fisher, both defenders would cheat towards Kobe...that's when Fisher was able to muster just enough offense and knock down the big shots. I think a lot of this "advanced" programming can come later...as long as the core mechanics and controls are there, it will open up a solid foundation to build on. We have to have realistic expectations too, and we are playing a video game after all. It's going to be a LONG TIME before we start seeing perfect AI and perfect attributes/tendencies in which the CPU plays like the real players and teams and coaches, know what I mean?

Precisely my point! Not a lot of time to chat about it now though. Just a suggestion for the devs they can take it or leave it just like with everything else. I'll buy the game, if I like it keep it if not get rid of it.

[©roke]

Quote: Originally Posted by rEAnimator

Yes, passing has been completely overhauled. It's not done yet, but we're trying to address all concerns mentioned in the post. The main motivation behind revamping the passing system is to make the whole thing more reactive to physics so you can see more tips, deflections, stuff like that. As a result we've needed to make passing "smarter" since the ball can't just pass through an opponent. Responsiveness, momentum and pass type selection are all being worked on as a result.

That pass type selection is in our hands? Can we do different type of passes on purpose?

[ParisB]

Quote: Originally Posted by loadleft

Precisely my point! Not a lot of time to chat about it now though. Just a suggestion for the devs they can take it or leave it just like with everything else. I'll buy the game, if I like it keep it if not get rid of it.

yea, we're almost arguing the same thing it seems....it's sort of a catch-22

Fisher doesn't shoot a lot and drop 25+ points in real life, but given the right game situation he's a very capable shooter and scorer...so although it's unrealistic to see him do this in Live/Elite, at the same time you can't really blame the CPU for taking its opportunities if they're constantly there.

As long as they strongly look at the tendencies (back to what Playmakers said), i think it will be a strong step to obtaining better results.

But i really don't want them to incorporate some sort of artificial hot/cold streaks or psychological tendencies such as confidence and such because it will never be perfect and it will start leading to other problems.

I say one step at a time.

p.s.- speaking of confidence, it's one of the few problems hampering MLB The Show. They tried to incorporate pitchers confidence, but while it's a good idea on paper, you start seeing unrealistic/artificial drops or spikes in confidence where you see scrub pitchers transform into cy youn pitchers, while brass balled elite pitchers like Halladay get reduced to emo self destructive pitchers when they make 1 user controlled mistake etc.

I'm terrified of seeing similar problems in Elite, where if you take 3 shots in a row (even open ones) with a Luke Walton, and all of a sudden you can't score with Gasol if he goes 5 possessions without touching it, or if Kobe gets hot, doesn't mean all of a sudden you should stop shooting with him. Know what I mean?

It will also be too tall of a task to ask Devs to figure out how every player reacts in every situation with their own psyche and stuff

[Eman5805]

Very, very, very impressed with what I've seen. Having full control of the player at all times really changes the way the game's played. The Euro step thing was awesome to see. Might even get to double pump when driving the lane. I just wish we saw more about how you play actual defense instead of just shadow guarding.

EA seems to finally be getting it. This hockey approach is paying off, it seems.