Worth while pickup?

[jello1717]

Quote: Originally Posted by strawberryshortcake

Jello1717, thanks. Appreciate you taking the time to give a detailed explanation. I'll have to take some time to look over it and get a better understanding later this week/weekend. Oregon's option game doesn't seem like it works in the big game. They've been to the National Championship but have yet to win it. What was the reason? Side Note: 49ers (Kaepernick) and Seahawks (Russell Wilson) both are scramble quarterbacks that ran the pistol/option in college and it carried over to the NFL for 1 season (Kaepernick completely toyed with Green Bay I think in the playoffs running some option plays). It looks like the defense finally wised up to them during season 2 I think. I think NFL defenses always had at least someone hounding the QB, finally, regardless of whether or not the QB decided to hand it off to the running back when either 49ers/Seahawks tried the option play. Didn't watch the whole thing yet, but what happened at 1:23, did the defensive lineman simply "commit" to the QB regardless. Looks like there was absolutely no hesitation whatsoever by the defensive lineman. I just thought something like that (committing to a target even before the play is run, either QB or HB) would be the most effective and have faith in the other 10 defensive men to clean up duties. As stated, I'll have to take some time to look at your post above and try to get an understanding. Appreciative. EDIT: Here's Oregon's most recent lost in the National Championship. I rooted against Oregon both years because I hate watching college teams run options. But maybe I'll root for Oregon the next time around if they make it back to the big game. Reason why they lost both championship games? I will admit though, Oregon is a ridiculous exciting team to watch. Tremendous speed all around.

In that play you mentioned (1:23) that was just a bad read by the QB. If he hands it to the HB like he should've, it would've been a TD.

You seem to be really fixated on Oregon. Since you don't watch college football much you might not know this, but there are a TON of teams that run spread options in college football today (this site lists NCAA '14 playbooks by type and there are 42/126 offenses that run a spread PB in the game which is pretty accurate to real life).

What's funny is the 2 NCG highlights you posted with Oregon were both won by teams that run a spread option attack very, very similar to Oregon's. In fact, in the last 10 years, the National Championship has been won by 5 teams that ran a spread option offense (Ohio, Auburn, Florida, Florida, Texas). Of the 5 non-spread winners, 3 of those were Alabama who always has the most talented team.

In the last 10 years, the spread option NCG winners have scored these points:
Texas - 41
Florida - 41
Florida - 24
Auburn - 22
Ohio - 42

so the spread option winners have certainly put up some points in the biggest game.

[strawberryshortcake]

Quote: Originally Posted by jello1717

In that play you mentioned (1:23) that was just a bad read by the QB. If he hands it to the HB like he should've, it would've been a TD. You seem to be really fixated on Oregon. Since you don't watch college football much you might not know this, but there are a TON of teams that run spread options in college football today (this site lists NCAA '14 playbooks by type and there are 42/126 offenses that run a spread PB in the game which is pretty accurate to real life). What's funny is the 2 NCG highlights you posted with Oregon were both won by teams that run a spread option attack very, very similar to Oregon's. In fact, in the last 10 years, the National Championship has been won by 5 teams that ran a spread option offense (Ohio, Auburn, Florida, Florida, Texas). Of the 5 non-spread winners, 3 of those were Alabama who always has the most talented team. In the last 10 years, the spread option NCG winners have scored these points: Texas - 41 Florida - 41 Florida - 24 Auburn - 22 Ohio - 42 so the spread option winners have certainly put up some points in the biggest game.

Still need to digest your many posts above, but a remark about the 1:23 mark. That's kind of exactly my point though -- is to have a defender specifically hound the QB and with another defender hound the RB (even though the second defender might get blocked by another offensive player. *again, I'll have to revisit your above informative post to get a better handle of the option plays). But in this 1:23 if the defender guessed wrong, obviously a TD.

If the defender at 1:23 would have guessed wrong and followed the RB instead, the QB would have had a running TD. By committing to the QB regardless, the defender stopped that play from scoring. That was kind of my point -- commit. I kind of look at it like this in that 1:23 scenario "if the RB scores, so be it; I wanted the defender to play the QB in that instance..." That's kind of what I was getting at -- commit and not play the guessing game.

First defender commit to the offensive player that has a more open space upfield. My thinking is that's more dangerous than having the QB/RB in position to run towards the crowded OL/DL trenches.

I chose to point out Oregon because they're what I usually think about when the "option" plays are run. I usually see them run the option A LOT, and I mean A LOT. Yes, they do pass the ball, but it seems very seldom if that. It seems as though they're a run option first offense, and a run option second offense, and a run option 3rd offense, and finally a passing offense in rare moments (not exactly rare, but hopefully you know what I mean). Yes, Auburn and Ohio State runs the option but they also mix it up with the passes and to me it simply doesn't seem like they're as "run-the option" happy as Oregon is.

I remember Florida with Tebow at QB running the options as well, and I dislike them when they were all the rage just because they were predominantly run-option first (at least that's what I remember). The same goes with either Army or Navy, or whoever that does the option predominantly? Every time I see Army (I think), it's run the option. This may help develop the receivers ability to block, but doesn't seem like it'll help develop a "wide receiver" for the NFL so to speak.

I don't have a "problem" with a team that traditionally runs the ball to set up the pass, or even use the option once in a while. It's just that when teams are "run-option" happy, that gets frustrating. I just hate seeing the defender "guess' is probably what annoys me the most. Commit and let the defensive chips fall as you may; just have faith in your defensive brothers to stop the RB if he gets the hand off.

Side Remark: In the video game world, I like to use the run to set up the pass. I might mix it up once in a while with a three down consecutive passing play.

[jello1717]

Quote: Originally Posted by strawberryshortcake

Still need to digest your many posts above, but a remark about the 1:23 mark. That's kind of exactly my point though -- is to have a defender specifically hound the QB and with another defender hound the RB (even though the second defender might get blocked by another offensive player. *again, I'll have to revisit your above informative post to get a better handle of the option plays). But in this 1:23 if the defender guessed wrong, obviously a TD. If the defender at 1:23 would have guessed wrong and followed the RB instead, the QB would have had a running TD. By committing to the QB regardless, the defender stopped that play from scoring. That was kind of my point -- commit. I kind of look at it like this in that 1:23 scenario "if the RB scores, so be it; I wanted the defender to play the QB in that instance..." That's kind of what I was getting at -- commit and not play the guessing game.

Again, on that play, that was just a bad read by the QB. If he makes the right one, it's a TD by the HB. The thing about the option is that if the QB makes the correct read (which they do probably 80+% of the time) then that 1st defender will ALWAYS "guess" wrong.

Quote: Originally Posted by strawberryshortcake

I chose to point out Oregon because they're what I usually think about when the "option" plays are run. I usually see them run the option A LOT, and I mean A LOT. Yes, they do pass the ball, but it seems very seldom if that. It seems as though they're a run option first offense, and a run option second offense, and a run option 3rd offense, and finally a passing offense in rare moments (not exactly rare, but hopefully you know what I mean). Yes, Auburn and Ohio State runs the option but they also mix it up with the passes and to me it simply doesn't seem like they're as "run-the option" happy as Oregon is.

As someone else already said, Oregon isn't nearly as run heavy as you seem to think they are. However, a team like Auburn IS very run heavy. In 2014 Oregon had 474 passes to 644 runs (1.35 run: pass ratio) while Auburn only had 332 passes to 607 runs (1.83 run: pass ratio). Even Ohio had 409 passes to 690 runs (1.69 ratio). While Auburn and Ohio's offenses can be unstoppable (just see Ohio in the NCG last year against Oregon) the thing that makes Oregon's offense so tough is that they are pretty balanced. You can't sell out against the run with them because they WILL burn you badly with the pass (at least w/ Mariotta back there). Oregon had 42 rushing TDs and 44 passing TDs while Auburn had 32 rushing TDs and only 23 passing TDs.

Quote: Originally Posted by strawberryshortcake

I remember Florida with Tebow at QB running the options as well, and I dislike them when they were all the rage just because they were predominantly run-option first (at least that's what I remember). The same goes with either Army or Navy, or whoever that does the option predominantly? Every time I see Army (I think), it's run the option. This may help develop the receivers ability to block, but doesn't seem like it'll help develop a "wide receiver" for the NFL so to speak.

Once again I don't think it's the main job of an NCAA team to prepare guys to play in the NFL. Their job is to win games while in the NCAA. Someone like Tebow is an excellent example of this. There was no way that he'd be able to play QB in the NFL (I don't follow the NFL, but I can't imagine he made a successful QB in the NFL) but he was EXTREMELY effective in the NCAA. It wasn't Florida's job to prepare Tebow to become an NFL QB (which wasn't gonna happen anyway), it was to win games, and they did that VERY well with him as their QB.

You've mentioned a couple of times how Army and Navy's option attack (which isn't the spread option, but the flexbone) won't do a good job of creating NFL WRs. Well, almost no recruit with half a shot of making the NFL is going to sign with Army/Navy/Air Force anyway (who would waste 4-6 of their peak health years serving in the Military when they could be making millions of dollars instead?). What you're missing is that Army/Navy/Air Force run the option BECAUSE they can't recruit NFL talent. They can't get the horses to beat other teams by sheer talent alone, so they have a scheme built around not needing premium athletes.

Quote: Originally Posted by strawberryshortcake

I don't have a "problem" with a team that traditionally runs the ball to set up the pass, or even use the option once in a while. It's just that when teams are "run-option" happy, that gets frustrating. I just hate seeing the defender "guess' is probably what annoys me the most. Commit and let the defensive chips fall as you may; just have faith in your defensive brothers to stop the RB if he gets the hand off.

Once again, if the option is run correctly by the offense, the defender will "guess" incorrectly EVERY PLAY. Even if he takes the QB every time (which is a TERRIBLE idea depending on the team) he will be "wrong" every time. And you don't want to do the same thing every time like you're saying. If the QB knows that the D will play him every time it makes him read a whole lot easier. What's more, if the OC knows they're playing the QB every time it makes his play calling a whole lot easier as he can call plays that are more effective when giving to the HB (like plays with pulling linemen to lead block for the HB. What's more, you need to look at the personnel as well to decide which guy you want to play more often. If it's 2012 Michigan with Denard Robinson @ QB and a bunch of average guys @ HB, play the QB more often. If it's 2013 Auburn w/ Tre Mason @ HB and Nick Marshall @ QB, you should play the HB much more often. If it's 2014 Oregon w/ Mariota @ QB and Freeman @ HB, then you'll just have to pick your poison.

[GrindHard26]

I have ncaa 13 on ps3..anyway i can get 2015 rosters?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[Mad 69]

Yes you can get 2015 rosters, go to the Roster section on this forum.

This game is definitely worth getting, why wouldn't you want to own the very last college game?

[Rollor]

If you really like that, then it worths!

[allhailben7]

Have an FAU build-up Dynasty with geographic conferences right now. My whole conference is Florida and Georgia teams right now. In a game vs FIU, my best player--a Sr 88 OVR QB--went 21-31 for 310 yards passing 101 rushing and 5 TDs in a 48-24 win. Next week vs Florida in the same offense, he went 21-37 for 167 yards and 3 yards rushing in a 21-14 loss (had a kick return TD in the first quarter and a rushing TD with under a minute to go to tie it). That felt like the most balanced game I've had in a while, playing it again for the first time in almost a year. The running is much better than 13 was, I think, and the recruiting makes more sense now, since your aren't spending an hour each week on recruiting. Also, it was the last of the series.

[DucksForever]

Let me clarify some misconceptions about the option and Oregon's offense.

First of all, Oregon is a spread zone running team primarily. This means that they are a run first team and that they rely on zone principles as opposed to man blocking. They sometimes will run a zone read which is a zone running play with 2 or 3 different options. However, Oregon's primary running plays (as are with most zone running teams) are the inside zone and outside zone. NOT the zone read. The zone read is often a change up (and there are many variations of it), but their offense is very similar to Mike Shannahan's Broncos or today's Browns, Broncos, and Redskins.

The inside zone is a play where every defensive gap is accounted for by the offensive line, and the running back will run parallel to the line of scrimmage until a gap (typically between the guard and tackle) opens up. His job is to get upfield as fast as he can, and the line is space blocking and getting to the second level. Oregon telegraphs this by lining the running back offset the quarterback and slightly behind him. Since the defense knows what is coming, there tends to be a lot of over-pursuit which leads to cutback lanes and big plays for the Ducks.

The outside zone is where the offensive line uses the defenses pursuit to push them playside (still space blocking). The back runs parallel to the line of scrimmage and either cuts outside the strongside tackle, or reverses his field to cut weakside. Once again, Oregon televises the outside zone by having the running back line up right next to (or parallel) the quarterback. This, just as it does the inside zone, provides many cutback opportunities.

Other running plays that are utilized are the power sweep (known as the "Buck Sweep" in NCAA 14), the power 16, straddled triple option, midline read option, standard read option, QB sweep, power toss...etc. (All of the power plays utilize man blocking)

The zone read is a play that Oregon included/utilized in order to combat over-aggressive defenses. Because they telegraph which run play they are running, defenses know when to load the box or push the outside. The zone read isolates one defender (typically the weakside defensive end) and allows the quarterback to choose whether to hand the ball to the back or keep it himself. Some reminders: the zone read is still a zone running play (the line is still space blocking with a kick-step as opposed to man blocking), there are both inside zone reads and outside zone reads, and the running back still telegraphs which zone read will occur by his stance. There is also the straddled triple option which is a standard zone read with a third option supposing the defensive end commits to the first read. The play then becomes a speed option in which the quarterback is reading the force defender. There are other variations in which the quarterback will read other members of the defense such as the midline read option. Oregon has gone as far as to read defensive ends, defensive tackles, middle linebackers, and outside linebackers. The goal of these variations is to isolate the opposing team's best defender and render him useless to the play. (To see an example of this, watch Oregon vs Stanford 2012. Oregon lost the game, but Chip Kelly changed his gameplan to counteract the physicality of Stanford's defensive tackles. He changed to a complete midline scheme which gave him some moderate success running outside. However, Stanford's linebackers were really well coached and disciplined, and they did an excellent job of scraping and taking up blockers as to disable the cutback lanes.)

Hypothetically, the zone read in itself is a simple play to stop. If you assign one person to the quarterback and one person to the running back, you would think that all the players would be accounted for. However, Oregon has a few wrinkles that cause defenses to freeze. First and foremost, Oregon uses package plays to cause defenses to commit to the run and be caught out of position in the passing game. A package play is a play where the offense has a run/pass option depending on how the defense reacts. These are much easier to run in college because lineman are able to block up to 3 yards downfield during passing plays as opposed to 1 yard in the NFL. Baylor, Auburn, and Ohio State are other teams that utilize package plays to stop over-aggressive defenses. (An example of this is Auburn's game-tying touchdown with seconds to go in 2013's Iron Bowl). Oregon's most common package play is the bubble screen. If the defensive end accounts for the quarterback and the defense gets penetration, Oregon's QB's have the choice to throw a bubble screen on the outside (usually a 2x1 alignment). This gets defenses to stretch themselves to stop the quick passing game, and it opens up the inside zone. Oregon did this simple concept over and over again during the Rose Bowl this past season and Florida State was determined to stop the inside run. This led Oregon to do a variation of the bubble screen package play (a pump n' go) which left receiver Darren Carrington uncovered down the field. Package plays prohibit the defense from loading the box and assigning specific defenders to the quarterback and running back as they risk leaving receivers uncovered in the open field. In fact, defenses rarely play man against Oregon in general due to their athleticism. This makes it impossible to assign specific players to the running back and quarterback.

Also, Oregon's tempo allows the offense to face extremely vanilla defensive schemes and looks. Defenses do not have enough time to disguise themselves at the line of scrimmage because of the fast tempo, so Oregon often knows what the defense will be doing before the play even starts.

I could go much further in depth (and if anyone wants to talk about Oregon's offense or the spread, I would love to have a conversation in PM), but I will leave it at this for now. To see these concepts in action, just watch some Oregon games and visit websites such as Fishduck.com. Also, Chip Kelly learned much of his information from Bob Stoops and his 2000's spread offense, so watching Oklahoma games is a great way to learn about the spread and the zone run. Gus Malzahn runs a very advanced scheme of the power spread offense while Baylor and Ohio State are mixes of zone and power schemes. All of the offenses listed utilize package plays (especially Baylor) and tempo to catch defenses off guard.