2013 Regular Season Awards

[cardinalbird5]

You're missing the point. You are completely neglecting positional adjustment when you are comparing Cuddyer to McCutchen or anyone else. I get it you are a Rockies fan and Cuddyer had a good year, but he does not belong in the MVP discussion.

He isn't even close, but I am not about to get into an argument over it.

My top 3 are:

McCutchen
Carpenter
Goldschmidt.

[mb625]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sportsforever

I'm not going to type of a thesis on this...I'll just list some reasons: 1) McCutchen plays in a pitchers park and still put up better numbers. I don't care what you show me about the 'road' splits. What you have failed to show is that Cuddyer's HOME numbers were extremely improved over his road numbers. 2) McCutchen plays a premium position and plays it relatively well (CF) while putting up better offensive numbers. 3) McCutchen's WAR is around 8 while Cuddyer was a 2 (about the same as David Carpenter who gave up the homer to Uribe btw). These are just a few of the reasons McCutchen is in a completely different league than Cuddyer. I didn't mention it before because I am a Braves fan, but I would honestly put Freddie Freeman and Andrelton Simmons ahead of Cuddyer in terms of the MVP.

1) That's fair. Here you go:

Cuddyer at home: .356/.414/.582/11/45
McCutchen at home: .337/.425/.537/9/46

That's why I brought out road numbers, because one could easily look at that and decry that saying "PNC is a pitcher's park, so Cuddyer being only slightly better proves that McCutchen is far superior," yet Cuddyer holds serve with road numbers (they're very even) and that is what puts the idea in my head that says at the plate, they're pretty much even.

2) This is where I give McCutchen the MVP award. He is so good defensively that he gets the edge over the field there.

3) WAR is beyond me and I've already demonstrated that I don't like it, so I won't address it. If you want to point at that as the decider, that's your prerogative and I'm completely fine with that.

And, to be frank, upon looking at the numbers, I'd put Freeman in the mix as well and probably toss Carpenter out. Possibly putting above Cuddyer (SLG and OPS trouble me, but other than that, HR and especially RBIs are big, but that could just be a good player/good team v. good player/bad team kind of thing). Freeman put up some good numbers without me noticing as I don't follow the NL nearly as well as the AL, (That could be part of this whole thing as well. TBH) and he wasn't being discussed either. So I just think that a big problem with WAR is that some good players simply don't get any recognition for the seasons they had.

[mb625]

Quote: Originally Posted by cardinalbird7

You're missing the point. You are completely neglecting positional adjustment when you are comparing Cuddyer to McCutchen or anyone else. I get it you are a Rockies fan and Cuddyer had a good year, but he does not belong in the MVP discussion. He isn't even close, but I am not about to get into an argument over it. My top 3 are: McCutchen Carpenter Goldschmidt.

I've been saying all along that McCutchen is a far superior defender and I agree that. Carpenter is an average defender at 2B. Being a former Second Baseman, I don't necessarily think that it's unfair to say that 2B isn't any more important than LF. So to me, Average 2B v. Below average LF is not a huge disparity. But that's just me, and perhaps my thinking is flawed.

And I'm not trying to argue with anyone here, and if I came off that way I apologize. Just trying to A) Generate some discussion and B) Let my opinions be known. No worries.

[55]

Quote: Originally Posted by baseballin23

No love for Freddie Freeman!?

Not even close.

[1stpitchhacker]

Quote: Originally Posted by baseballin23

^Lol whaaaaat?

Somewhere in the top ten but near the bottom of it

[DamnYanks2]

Quote: Originally Posted by baseballin23

^Lol whaaaaat?

If you can justify an argument for putting him over the above named, I'd love to hear it.

[55]

Hanley Ramirez had a higher WAR than Freeman and he played in roughly half as many games.

Is a Freeman a solid player who had a good year? Absolutely. Is he a legitimate MVP candidate? Absolutely NOT.

[Chip Douglass]

Quote: Originally Posted by baseballin23

My argument is who cares about his WAR? If someone can tell me how WAR is calculated I'd be pretty impressed. Solely on conventional stats, hes right there with any of these guys you mentioned no doubt

http://www.fangraphs.com/library/misc/war/

It's not a hidden secret.

I'm not sure how much credit you think Freeman deserves. He's a very good player who deserves top 10 MVP votes, but not much more than that.