2013 Regular Season Awards

[DamnYanks2]

Quote: Originally Posted by 1stpitchhacker

You know Miggy can't beat out Freeman for the MVP right? In no way is that possible.

We were speaking in hypotheticals in a made up baseball world.

[1stpitchhacker]

I see but I think what our Yankee friend was getting at was that in some cases people use WAR to backup their arguments and in others (Donaldson vs. Cabrera) they go back to the old conventional stats. I'm not a proponent of one or the other, but if you're gonna use WAR (not YOU specifically but people) then use it consistently or admit its flawed.

Chase Headly WAR - 3.4
Matt Holliday - 2.7
Carlos Beltran - 2.4
Allen Craig - 2.3
Chris Johnson - 2.0

Really?

[DamnYanks2]

Quote: Originally Posted by 1stpitchhacker

I see but I think what our Yankee friend was getting at was that in some cases people conveniently use WAR to backup their arguments and in others (Donaldson vs. Cabrera) they go back to the old conventional stats. I'm not a proponent of one or the other, but if you're gonna use WAR (not YOU specifically but people) then use it consistently or admit its flawed. Chase Headly WAR - 3.4 Matt Holliday - 2.7 Carlos Beltran - 2.4 Allen Craig - 2.3 Chris Johnson - 2.0 Really?

Cabrera destroys Donaldson in both coventional and sabermetrics, excluding defense.

Yes that is accurate because of their defense. Johnson and Holliday are not good defenders, and that hurts their overall value, as does does the rest of that group.

[1stpitchhacker]

Quote: Originally Posted by DamnYanks2

Cabrera destroys Donaldson in both coventional and sabermetrics, excluding defense. Yes that is accurate because of their defense. Johnson and Holliday are not good defenders, and that hurts their overall value, as does does the rest of that group.

You just proved my point.

[DamnYanks2]

Quote: Originally Posted by 1stpitchhacker

You just proved my point.

How did I prove your point, those war numbers you posted are accurate, and those are their defensive war numbers, not their overall.

[1stpitchhacker]

Quote: Originally Posted by DamnYanks2

How did I prove your point, those war numbers you posted are accurate, and those are their defensive war numbers, not their overall.

Check Cabrera's and Donaldson's WAR, that's how. And those are OVERALL, not defensive. In fact, how could you say in one sentence that Holliday and those guys are bad defenders and in another sentence say those numbers represent DEFENSIVE WAR. If that were the case, then wouldn't those guys be GOOD defenders?

[DamnYanks2]

Quote: Originally Posted by 1stpitchhacker

Check Cabrera's and Donaldson's WAR, that's how. And those are OVERALL, not defensive. In fact, how could you say in one sentence that Holliday and those guys are bad defenders and in another sentence say those numbers represent DEFENSIVE WAR. If that were the case, then wouldn't those guys be GOOD defenders?

What are you talking about? The numbers you posted are DWAR. Their overall is not -.

For ex..

Beltan's overall is a 2.0. His defensive war brings down his offensive war and gives him that number.

Forgot to add baserunning, and position.

[DamnYanks2]

Quote: Originally Posted by 1stpitchhacker

I see but I think what our Yankee friend was getting at was that in some cases people use WAR to backup their arguments and in others (Donaldson vs. Cabrera) they go back to the old conventional stats. I'm not a proponent of one or the other, but if you're gonna use WAR (not YOU specifically but people) then use it consistently or admit its flawed. Chase Headly WAR - 3.4 Matt Holliday - 2.7 Carlos Beltran - 2.4 Allen Craig - 2.3 Chris Johnson - 2.0 Really?

These are their defensive war numbers.