The LeBron James Thread

[TheShizNo1]

Quote: Originally Posted by wwharton

Since we're rehashing all of this (and I'm bored and it's Friday), I'd like to bring up something that may make a little more sense considering what we're seeing in Miami these days. Both Jamison and Mo Williams were considered "robin" types before getting to Cleveland. Both had much better stats and were considered significant additions. I'm pretty sure Jamison was averaging 20 and 10 before the trade. Neither is a spot up jump shooter. Both can hit an open shot, but being a spot up jump shooter is not what made them who they were. They weren't used properly and part of that should fall on the coach but part of it should also fall on James and how much he needed to dominate the ball. I can't even say "needed to dominate the ball to be effective" bc I don't believe that's true, but maybe "to be comfortable" is more accurate. Either way, this idea of not having enough talent or not having a robin is a bit of revisionist history. We see Wade and Bosh now struggling to be who we expect them to be in a Lebron friendly offense too. Now we ask questions bc these two guys were among the best in the league before they all got together. Since Mo and Twan weren't THAT good, it seems we just write them off as "trash" (using that word to summarize all the words used for the CLE supporting cast). Last night, Bosh got more looks around the basket and Wade seemed to be the focus late in the game, and the Heat looked much better. Mo and Twan didn't have the power to make that kind of change happen. Hell, even Jordan needed some serious arm twisting to let the others be more naturally involved in the offense before they won anything. And as far as the CLE post presence last year, he was of course a shell of his former self but Shaq probably had the best post season of anyone on the Cavs last year. At least two of the games against Boston, he seemed like the only one that was trying. Last year's Cavs had as good of a shot as anyone at winning it all. And that doesn't mean they would've if the team didn't quit. Only one team wins, that means a lot of other teams lose. It doesn't mean all those teams couldn't win... real life just doesn't play out like that.

Very interesting point. I wondered why LBJ was deemed the King of the Heat, when DWade is the only one over there with a ring and has truly carried a team before. I saw him take over the 4th quarter last night with the ball in his hands. That's who should be the 1st option in crunch time IMO.

Also noticed something else, ever watch the Heat come down the court and LBJ doesn't get a shot in, in about 5 tries? I have, and when that happens, he's GOING to take the next 3-5 shots no matter what. Where Bosh and Wade seem willing to take the Robin role at times, LBJ doesn't seem at that willing to not be Batman all the time.

[jeebs9]

We're going through this again...i thought we moved on lol

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[ex carrabba fan]

Jamison a Robin [at the time when he joined Cleveland]? On which planet. Numbers mean little to nothing. He and Gilbert racked up numbers and played me first ball 24/7 in those days in Washington. I think some people get caught up in what ex-Cavs players had been in the past on previous teams [Shaq/Jamison] compared to the state that they were actually in once they joined the Cavs.

Gil/Jamison/Butler were skilled players just not winners. That Washington team was the epitome of loserville. Jamison was not trash by any means, but he certainly wasn't a Robin on a championship team with no other help besides Mo Williams.

Now if LeBron had gotten Jamison two years prior [2007-2009 were his best years], I do believe Jamison could have been a hell of a lot more effective. When Cleveland got him he was just entering that period of going downhill. Not to mention the fact that Cleveland only had him for half a year.

On the topic of Mo Williams, he can thank LeBron for that one All-Star appearance of his career. He was certainly a hell of a shooter... but that's where it ends. I mean when his shot was off, what else could he really do? Get to the FT line? No. Create offense for others? No. Create shots for himself? No. Run an effective half court set? No. Play decent defense? No.

Quote: Originally Posted by Jasong7777

Lebron doesn't make his teammates better. He never has. Matter of fact, it's quite the opposite. Wade and Lebron are useless off the ball. They both need the ball to be effective.

LeBron has done more with less than any other player not named Steve Nash in the past decade. Please tell me someone who has done more than James with less? There is not one player you can name that could have taken the same Cavs team to the finals as James had against the Spurs.

There is not one player that could have taken the Cavs team to back to back 60+ win regular seasons. Not one.

[Muzyk23]

^^ there was that guy named Allen..uhh..ehmmm..eeee..Iverson I think

that year, in the playoffs the only guy not injured on the team was a rookie called Raja Bell..and there was that guy named Jumaine Jones, he actually started in the finals..

[jeebs9]

Aaron Mckie, Tryone Hill, Matt Geiger, Eric Snow... I can't think of anyone else. But those guys stand out in my mind.

[BATMON]

Jamison was over the hill when he joined Cleveland and was starting to decline when he joined the Wizards.

[Muzyk23]

Quote: Originally Posted by jeebs9

Aaron Mckie, Tryone Hill, Matt Geiger, Eric Snow... I can't think of anyone else. But those guys stand out in my mind.

I hope you sensed that I was pretending not remebering all those names.

I still keep like 3 VHS tapes of 2000\2001 Philly regular season and playoffs footage. I sincerely enjoyed the ride.

[ex carrabba fan]

Quote: Originally Posted by Muzyk23

^^ there was that guy named Allen..uhh..ehmmm..eeee..Iverson I think that year, in the playoffs the only guy not injured on the team was a rookie called Raja Bell..and there was that guy named Jumaine Jones, he actually started in the finals..

AI was a warrior and is in the discussion, but I would say Cleveland's success trumps his.. not to take anything away from your boy.

I would say Jason Kidd is the one guy who can be argued, but as far as regular season domination goes, James has him beat in that category. Obviously Kidd has James beat in the making it to the finals two years in a row.. Comparing the support players, they seem to be pretty even.

Point being, I would say LeBron does make teammates better. Saying he never has? I mean that's just not smart to say.

Quote: Originally Posted by BATMON

Jamison was over the hill when he joined Cleveland and was starting to decline when he joined the Wizards.

That would be the Shaq that LeBron played with. I wouldn't say Jamison was over the hill, but yes, I wouldn't call the Jamison that LeBron played with a true Robin. He was on the downhill of his career at that point... If they had a piece or two more, then Jamison could have helped tremendously. However depending on Jamison and Mo to be James' right hand men, well that just is a mismatch when you look at Boston.