all-time professional basketball draft.

[AlexBrady]

Quote: Originally Posted by jake44np

Lol @ you blaming your bad pick on the offense you are going to run. If you truly are going to run the triangle you should have never taken a PG with your 3rd pick. You should have taken Pippen who ran the triangle his whole career. Also good luck running the triangle with Wilt as your first pick.

Pippen ran the Triangle to perfection but I had already selected John Havlicek to play the small forward. Hondo could make meaningful off ball cuts and make alert passes with zip.
The truth is, that Chamberlain proved he was a winner in his stint with Los Angeles. They were running squeeze-action with their wings and Wilt was hitting cutters and faders. In the Triangle, it is crucial that the ball be delivered into the post. With a 7'1 310 lb target that won't be an issue.

[iLLosophy]

Quote: Originally Posted by st0rmb11

iLLosophy Depth - The position you really have great depth at is center. Mourning could more than adequately replace Robinson. (definitely on defense). One thing you gain by starting Magic at SF is, once you take Cousy out, you can slide Magic to point, Artest to SF, & put Sam Jones in. You lose a lot of scoring when you take Dirk out for Horry or Kukoc. You lose a whole lot when you have to put Kerr in at point. You don't have a back up shooting guard, unless you slide Artest down or Kerr up. Bailey Howell is a solid replacement for Artest, but you lose a lot of defense. As I mentioned in the defense "breakdown", you really don't have any defensive subs for your best defensive line up. Also, I cringe at the thought of a line up of Mikan, Horry, Howell, Jones, & Kerr...you have one defender and one scorer...7/10 Total - 43/50

I agree with your write up except for this part. I do lose a lot of scoring skill if I take dirk out and replace with kukoc, but relative to the rest of my team it's not like dirk is going to be putting up 30ppg. Dirk might get 18ppg per 36 minutes where kukoc might get 12. And don't forget Kukoc had a better well rounded game and was better at creating opportunities for other players than Dirk, so you'd see twice as many assists than you would for dirk.

Kerr is my 11th man off the bench. Basically goes in the game to keep the defense honest if they are helping too much. The SG would be a rotation of Magic/Artest/Jones - and kerr/howell/kukoc/horry under extreme circumstances.

Score wise I think you gave me too much in defense and not enough in depth (cancels each other out though). The lineup you listed as my best defensive lineup would never be on the floor at the same time. If I took Magic and Cousy off the floor in a critical moment - I think I would have to answer to some people in the locker room and/or in the front office.

Overall pretty spot on though.

[Kashanova]

Quote: Originally Posted by st0rmb11

So, you'll be hiring Mike D'Antoni as your coach

Either D'Antoni, Westphal(who did a great job with the 93 suns) or Phil Jackson, I think the players I have would form a Sick Triangle rotation on the court

[st0rmb11]

Quote: Originally Posted by iLLosophy

I agree with your write up except for this part. I do lose a lot of scoring skill if I take dirk out and replace with kukoc, but relative to the rest of my team it's not like dirk is going to be putting up 30ppg. Dirk might get 18ppg per 36 minutes where kukoc might get 12. And don't forget Kukoc had a better well rounded game and was better at creating opportunities for other players than Dirk, so you'd see twice as many assists than you would for dirk. Kerr is my 11th man off the bench. Basically goes in the game to keep the defense honest if they are helping too much. The SG would be a rotation of Magic/Artest/Jones - and kerr/howell/kukoc/horry under extreme circumstances. Score wise I think you gave me too much in defense and not enough in depth (cancels each other out though). The lineup you listed as my best defensive lineup would never be on the floor at the same time. If I took Magic and Cousy off the floor in a critical moment - I think I would have to answer to some people in the locker room and/or in the front office. Overall pretty spot on though.

Whoa, that's gotta be a typo (the 9/10 I gave you on defense). I read through what I wrote, and I'm pretty sure I had to have meant to put an 8. Fixed.

[st0rmb11]

Quote: Originally Posted by jake44np

Lol @ you blaming your bad pick on the offense you are going to run. If you truly are going to run the triangle you should have never taken a PG with your 3rd pick. You should have taken Pippen who ran the triangle his whole career. Also good luck running the triangle with Wilt as your first pick.

I actually don't disagree with Brady taking Lenny Wilkens. He would be a great point guard for his line up. I just think he took him about 5 or 6 rounds earlier than he could have.

[Dice]

Quote: Originally Posted by st0rmb11

Dice Offense - You have the greatest PF ever. You have the 2nd greatest PF ever. (seriously, how did we let that happen?!). Your small forward position is loaded with Pierce: one of the top 10 scorers of the past decade. Thompson: one of the best scorers in NBA history. and Grant Hill: Scottie Pippen 2.0...unbelievable. Joe D was a very underrated offensive player. Oscar could score in several ways and could pass the ball as well as anyone. Mark Price was like Steve Nash before Steve Nash. I love your starting offense. McHale & Duncan can score in every conceivable way. Pierce can score in every way you could want a perimeter player to score. I don't recall who you said you'd start, but I'd have to start Dumars ahead of Thompson, if I were you. Thompson can come off of the bench and get you 15 points in 15 minutes. Robertson could shoot from 15 feet, post up, and also get to the basket. Not to mention, he could pass...I don't like your back up big men (from an offensive standpoint). Buck Williams was solid, but coming in for McHale & Duncan..you lose way too much offense. Mark Price is a great replacement for Oscar. Dale Ellis can come in and hit some threes to help spread the floor for your big guys. I can't penalize you for having 1 player who lacks an offensive game (Mahorn). 10/10 Defense - Your interior defense is very solid, though you are lacking a true center to guard the likes of Shaq, Hakeem, Kareem, Wilt, etc. Duncan, McHale, & Mahorn can defend guys their guys very well, but I don't see them stopping great centers. Parish was a solid inside defender, but again..not enough to stop great centers. Paul Pierce is a solid defender, when committed. David Thompson - not so much. Grant Hill was average in his prime. He's since become a very good defender. Oscar wasn't known for defense. Neither was Price. Dale Ellis?...no comment. I do like your best defensive line up - Duncan, McHale, Hill, Pierce, Dumars. That being said, a good guard (Jordan, Bryant, Wade, Gervin, etc.) will hurt Pierce, and a good center (Shaq, Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, Robinson) will give Duncan a lot of trouble inside. and your depth on defense isn't very impressive (Thompson, Ellis, Price, Buck) and Parish was solid, but nothing special. Still, your best defensive line up is very good. 8/10 Chemistry - no HUGE egos on this team. Thompson & Parish had drug problems, and I don't know how that would fly with guys like Duncan, Hill, Dumars, & Price. Pierce, when younger, was known to have a pretty big ego, but nothing huge. Oscar is my biggest concern. He had very few friends on any of his teams (until he got to Milwaukee). He also had a sizable ego and often set out to prove himself, even if it meant hurting his team. He was very hard on teammates, and I can't even imagine how that would rub off on guys like Duncan (laid back), McHale (laid back), Dumars (quiet), Price (laid back). I could see Mahorn and Robertson getting into it in practice because Robertson would get pissed off about Mahorn fouling him. Between the drug issues, the diversity of characters, Pierce's ego, & Robertson's bitterness, I can't give you higher than an 8/10 Durability - Parish never missed games. Hill was pretty healthy for his first several seasons, but had 2 or 3 years of horrible injuries. Pierce hasn't missed many games, with the exception of one season. Dumars didn't miss many games until the second half of his career, then his missed several. Buck Williams never missed games. Mahorn only played 5 seasons of 80 or more games, and only topped 70 nine times in 19 seasons. Oscar stayed pretty healthy throughout his career, though he only played a full season once. Mark Price missed a lot of games in his career. Thompson played almost every game during his first 4 seasons, but after that, drugs & injuries made him miss A LOT of games. McHale never missed too many games, but often played injured. Dale Ellis missed a lot of games.8/10 Depth - Your small forward position is stacked. If you slide Thompson to shooting guard, you're deep there. Your power forward position is VERY deep. Your center position is your weakest, as you only have one true center. Point guard is pretty solid, as Price brings a different dimension from Oscar. Still, you lose a lot of offense when you sub in Buck & Mahorn. But, if you have Thompson, Ellis, & Price in, you'll have plenty of scoring. I just can't look past you only having one center, though. 9/10 Total - 43/50

Good evaluation.

Your right. Having only one true center on the team will be difficult. BUT I'll take a gamble on Duncan playing center because with his defense at 7'0", I think he could handle it. And as I said when I picked him, if he played center full time he would have been regarded as one of the best centers of all time.

Here are two things that I might question:
- Oscar Robertson being your biggest concern in chemistry. Yes, I know Oscar didn't make a lot of friends BUT your not looking for friends on the court, your looking for teammates. Oscar was a perfectionist and he just wanted his teammates on the same level as him. Yes, he berated his teammates. Unfortunately, in his years with the Royals, he didn't have a lot to work with. But as you stated, when he got to the Bucks, he calmed down. That's because the Bucks were a legit championship team. When he knows that his teammates are capable of doing their jobs, he won't berate them. Unlike a guy like Rick Barry, who was an ******* to his teammates on a championship contending team with the Warriors. Oscar was an ultra competitive player who just wanted to win. He's no different from Michael Jordan's personality, who from some reports is even worse than Oscar when it comes to berating teammates. BUT yet, Jordan doesn't worry people about team chemistry.

- Robert Parish and his drug issue. Yes, I do have two drug heads on the team in David Thompson and Robert Parish. The difference is that drugs ruined Thompson's career. Yes, his problem is legit. Thompson was a coke-head. Parish never missed games because of drugs nor did he get suspended or kicked out of the league because of drugs. Yes, Parish was a weed-head and the NBA's bootleg version of Smokey BUT it never derailed his career. If cocaine never got a hold of David Thompson, we would have been arguing who was the second best shooting guard of all time between Kobe and Thompson.

[st0rmb11]

Quote: Originally Posted by Dice

Good evaluation. Your right. Having only one true center on the team will be difficult. BUT I'll take a gamble on Duncan playing center because with his defense at 7'0", I think he could handle it. And as I said when I picked him, if he played center full time he would have been regarded as one of the best centers of all time. Here are two things that I might question: - Oscar Robertson being your biggest concern in chemistry. Yes, I know Oscar didn't make a lot of friends BUT your not looking for friends on the court, your looking for teammates. Oscar was a perfectionist and he just wanted his teammates on the same level as him. Yes, he berated his teammates. Unfortunately, in his years with the Royals, he didn't have a lot to work with. But as you stated, when he got to the Bucks, he calmed down. That's because the Bucks were a legit championship team. When he knows that his teammates are capable of doing their jobs, he won't berate them. Unlike a guy like Rick Barry, who was an ******* to his teammates on a championship contending team with the Warriors. Oscar was an ultra competitive player who just wanted to win. He's no different from Michael Jordan's personality, who from some reports is even worse than Oscar when it comes to berating teammates. BUT yet, Jordan doesn't worry people about team chemistry. - Robert Parish and his drug issue. Yes, I do have two drug heads on the team in David Thompson and Robert Parish. The difference is that drugs ruined Thompson's career. Yes, his problem is legit. Thompson was a coke-head. Parish never missed games because of drugs nor did he get suspended or kicked out of the league because of drugs. Yes, Parish was a weed-head and the NBA's bootleg version of Smokey BUT it never derailed his career. If cocaine never got a hold of David Thompson, we would have been arguing who was the second best shooting guard of all time between Kobe and Thompson.

I actually don't hold Parish's "drug issues" against you. I did hold Thompson's against you, which knocked you down to a 9. And Oscar was considered so bitter towards society in general that he didn't get along with several of his teammates. He actually had pretty solid teams in KC. (Jerry Lucas, Happy Hairston,who averaged 14 and 11 for his career, Adrian Smith, who was an All-Star, Jack Twyman, & Wayne Embry - all of whom, except Hairston, made All-Star games while playing with Oscar.) Bad teams isn't what screwed him - the Royals being moved to the East during the Russell era is what screwed him. I just don't trust that Oscar would have any better rapport with your team than he did with any of his own teams. That got you knocked down to an 8. I can't imagine what would happen between him & Thompson, the first time Thompson missed a practice or played like crap because of his drugs.

[st0rmb11]

taur3asi3

Offense - you have the best passing center ever, so even if you don't have him shooting, you have to run several offensive sets through Walton. Jerry West was a lights out shooter, Bob Pettit was a great scorer with a solid face up game that would translate well to today. Frazier was a solid passer & could post up smaller guards. Bernard King was a world class scorer in his prime. Xavier could score well, but didn't possess much of an outside game. Cunningham was a freaky athlete, which worked to his advantage during his prime (and his era), but I don't know that he would be much more than a taller Shannon Brown in today's league. Moncrief was a more than capable scorer who shot very good percentages from the field, but he was a less than average three point shooter. Bobby Jones was an average offensive player. Hubert Davis was a great shooter, but I doubt he'll play much for you. Cowens wouldn't be much of an offensive threat against some of the centers on the other teams. 9/10

Defense - Walton: great defender. Moncrief: world class defender. Bobby Jones: great defender. Frazier: very good defender. McDaniel was good. West, Haywood, Cunningham, & Cowens were decent defenders. Cowens wouldn't stand much chance against other centers in this draft. Hubert Davis, Pettit, & Bernard were...eh. Still, your best defensive line up of Walton, Bobby Jones, Xavier, Moncrief, & Frazier would be deadly. 9/10

Chemistry - Spencer Haywood had drug problems and a massive ego. None of the other guys were bad chemistry guys, at all. I think West, Cowens, McDaniel, Cunningham, & Jones could keep him somewhat in check. I won't hold Walton being an incredible pot head against you because I didn't hold it against Dice that Parish was the same way. Still, Spencer Haywood had a well known drug problem, and I feel like you would likely lose him for games at a time because of suspension, making it really hard for you to develop a true chemistry. Not to mention, "Clyde" was out partying it up with NY celebrities throughout much of his career. I worry that this would hurt, as he would likely show up late to a few practices8/10

Durability - Haywood missed a ton of games. We all know about Walton's injury problems. Frazier didn't miss many games until the end of his career. Moncrief didn't miss too many games for his first 6 or 7 years, but he had horrible knee problems during the last 3 or 4 years. Bernard missed games all the time throughout his career. Cowens missed a curious number of games in the middle of his career, but for the most part, he was pretty durable. Bobby Jones rarely missed. Jerry West missed several games several times. Cunningham was very durable until his last 3 seasons. McDaniel had stretches in the middle and at the end of his career where he missed several games, but he played most games during the other seasons. Hubert Davis missed games all the time, but I don't know how many of those were just games that he didn't get into. Pettit played all the time. Still, too many guys missing too many games. AND - your best 2 players missed more than their share of games. 7/10

Depth - Not much drop off at center. Not much drop off at power forward. Your small forward position is stacked. Shooting guard is very good, as well. Only one point guard, but I'm sure you would intend for West to play some point guard, as well. You have a solid cast of good defenders & good offensive players. You don't have any truly OUTSTANDING offensive players, outside of West. You have a few GREAT defensive players, and when I look at your team, I see a rotation with limitless possibilities, and you don't ever lose much. Your team, overall, isn't GREAT, but this category is "depth", and you have little, to no, drop off at each position. 10/10

Total - 43/50