G.O.A.T Micheal Jordan vs Larry Bird was Jordan the best ever?

[ProfessaPackMan]

This thread is not Tapatalk friendly I see.

[jjsmity]

Quote: Originally Posted by ojandpizza

You keep saying "stats show" but the stats you are posting are so empty and meaningless.. And definitely do not show "impact a player has on a teams defense", you're grasping so damn hard to try and fabricate an argument out of nothing. The original intent of your post is fine, if you want to consider Bird GOAT nobody here can do anything to say you're wrong, they can just simply give reasoning for agreeing or disagreeing and choosing another great player.. But this argument you're trying to make about defense, one that frankly doesn't make any damn sense at all, nobody is even going to be able to take you seriously with the stuff you're saying. You seem to be way too logical of a basketball fan to just be throwing out all this random crap that doesn't apply to anything and trying to make it stick together somehow. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

i just point out the obvious that jordan fans cant respond with real stats/facts, just opinion. But yes if you feel that this is

"empty and meaningless"
" fabricate an argument out of nothing"
"frankly doesn't make any damn sense at all, nobody is even going to be able to take you seriously with the stuff you're saying."
" throwing out all this random crap that doesn't apply to anything and trying to make it stick together somehow"


to say and show that bulls were better at d than jordan joined and they got worse, than he leaves they get better. Bird joins the c's they get allot better, than leaves they get worse. If you feel those are what you have said above than i guess we must agree to disagree. I think maybe you are looking at individual [ jordan better at d agree] and i am looking at effects on teams overall defense [bird better]. Maybe that is were we miss each other. But I agree with the author of the article and i think this thread shows.

“The answer is obvious, they just don't want to admit it.* Jordan was a great individual player, but he was not as valuable of a TEAM player as those peers of his in the elite category of basketball players.”
http://airjudden2.tripod.com/jordan/19941995.htm

I would say this is for defense as well as stats show. and for that being generally his best argument against bird, well that does not look well for jordan as goat.

Quote: Originally Posted by wwharton

Seriously, I don't know anything about that thread but most people aren't responding here either and it's not bc of lack of knowledge. Some of the things you're laying your hat on are reaches and not worth doing the REAL research to write a long reply to refute them. OJ, to his credit, has done a bit of that but you still don't get it so it's really not worth it. BTW, I really hate when people say something like "Tell me [fill in the blank], I'll wait. See, you're not replying bc..." How can someone reply to a post you haven't even finished typing? If you want to have a real debate you should refrain from the chest pounding crap like that. Also stats do lie... they lie all the time. Stats are used to support an opinion. Stats alone are fact, but how they are used is subjective. "Cherry picking" stats to support an opinion while omitting stats that will disprove an opinion or the relevance of other stats happens all the time. Finally, who cares what Jordan (or any player) said about Bird (or any player) in an interview? I also remember Bird spending most of those games on his belly with back pain. It was a true "Dream Team" and by nature, he deserved to be there. He was also deserving, talent-wise. But his minutes were going to be extremely limited from the beginning. Overall it really does just seem like you want to argue. This is what you think and rather than really wanting to hear anyone else out, you're just ready for them to say something you can shoot down. That "feel" came from the OP and hasn't changed throughout. I'm just clarifying why people aren't rushing to battle your long post with their own full of stats and links and rebuttals. You're making the controversial claim so it's on you to prove it, not on anyone else to convince you you're wrong. I don't think anyone's losing any sleep over you thinking Bird is the GOAT. We may point out flaws in your theory, but I wouldn't hold my breath if you're waiting for someone to "make a case" for Jordan as the GOAT.

Hard to find anything on topic or argument for mj or against bird but i think a few relevant so i will reply to them.


bird- dream team
I was pointing out he was still a all star level player even than, when healthy, nothing more.


case for jordan
yes this is what i was hoping for and basically responses to my op. To debate and find truth. for exsample many claim mi have cherry picked, none have been able to show. Some have said well it could be if so and so [post 32] of course post 36 showed the stats showing the claim false, and clarifying my position that is what debate is for. Am I hear to debate?....yes what else for? if i put up a post and op like this topic, I aspect to get in many debates, has not really happened.

[Amoo316]

Jordan is better because he got his own Gatorade song. Bird never got a Gatorade song so clearly he was not the better of the two. This fact can not be disputed and I have fully proven my point with the supplied link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0AGiq9j_Ak

I win.

[jjsmity]

Quote: Originally Posted by Amoo316

Jordan is better because he got his own Gatorade song. Bird never got a Gatorade song so clearly he was not the better of the two. This fact can not be disputed and I have fully proven my point with the supplied link. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0AGiq9j_Ak I win.

I love that song, however......bird was in a miller lite commercial jordan was not, it even has a fat lady so clearly he is better, proven here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYfiOpCIaK4


that does not even include the converse commercial arguments, clearly bird is a better team player as these commercials are not all just about bird like the MJ one is, but magic,isiah,bird,dr j and others

1987 - Converse - Bird Magic Isiah King McHale Aguirre
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJasNo0An28

larry and magic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oACRt-Qp-s

magic and dr j
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYo-cszbFc8


larry and MJ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oACRt-Qp-s



however the best argument clearly is the fact bird had not only his own song, but it was for the state of indian the "new state bird" larry bird.

Larry Bird The New State Bird song Tom Montgomery
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT1oBPW8th8

[King_B_Mack]

Yeah, but Bird ain't friends with Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck, two of the greatest cartoon characters in history. Mike is so tight with them they did a movie together and it was amazing and produced one of the greatest shoe colorways of all time. Discussion over.

[jjsmity]

Quote: Originally Posted by King_B_Mack

Yeah, but Bird ain't friends with Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck, two of the greatest cartoon characters in history. Mike is so tight with them they did a movie together and it was amazing and produced one of the greatest shoe colorways of all time. Discussion over.

you got me, discussion over. No one beats daffy and bugs. I read that book to my kids at night with mj and the toon squad.

[RockinDaMike]

Quote: Originally Posted by King_B_Mack

Yeah, but Bird ain't friends with Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck, two of the greatest cartoon characters in history. Mike is so tight with them they did a movie together and it was amazing and produced one of the greatest shoe colorways of all time. Discussion over.

Quote: Originally Posted by jjsmity

you got me, discussion over. No one beats daffy and bugs. I read that book to my kids at night with mj and the toon SQUAT.

/thread...

[Vni]

Too many bugs bunny fans first in this thread to take it seriously.