The Michael Vick discussion thread

[bkrich83]

Quote: Originally Posted by terrapinman

its a known fact there is always a hint of jealousy esp when people hear of players holding out for contracts among other things. Truth be told fans like their players like they enjoy black entertainment---Wayne Bradyesque

Sorry, but people getting upset for holding out for contracts, etc, is not limited to black players.

[snepp]

Quote: Originally Posted by jonesha2000

Absolutely not. Peyton Manning is hands down the best qb in the league right now. Mike Vick is very entertaining to watch but he is not the best qb. As far as his football career, I kinda feel bad for the guy because it's already tough playing on the NFL level but when you don't have consistency in the coaching staff and you're having to learn a new offense every other year, it hurts your development...plain and simple. He needs a steady system and coach that can help him with his mechanics because he can't run for his life the rest of his career.

Pretty sure he was being sarcastic.

[wwharton]

Quote: Originally Posted by dbshady

But i guess when your rich, you have houses all over, you just dont care and you just dont think about those things.. BUT MAN, at least put the house in the other guys name, your agent should have been smarter than that!

After all you wrote, this quote explains the complete opposite of your argument. It's very irresponsible but also very possible, just the way you explained it. Vick may have been somehow involved, but this was my first thought and nothing else has come out to make me think any differently really.

Quote: Originally Posted by SoMiss2000

I was pretty indifferent to all this until I saw the feature this morning. Just seeing those dogs being forced to fight by humans sickens me. If Vick is found to be guilty, off with his head. I will NOT wear my Vick jersey again.

Your indifference initially is also why I believe it's possible Vick wasn't involved, even if he did have knowledge. ESPN educated you to the point that you now properly appreciate the seriousness of these dog fights. So why isn't it just as possible that Vick (and/or Portis) was indifferent due to ignorance? It seems rather likely to me. Personally, unless there is proof that he was actually there fighting the dogs or betting in person, my opinion of Vick won't change one bit.

If he knew what was going on he still deserves to be punished, but ignorant indifference doesn't make him scum of the earth. I'll stay away from all the racial talk but this type of judgment parallels a much bigger situation in which case it wouldn't be the PC view point like here.

Vick needs to grow up and be more responsible. No question about that. At this point, that's my only off field criticism of him.

Quote: Originally Posted by bkrich83

No doubt about it. But the notion the franchise will somehow fold if they lose Vick is ridiculous. I guess the question is, how many PR black eyes is Arthur Blank willing to sustain? And also, if they don't start winning, at what point does the QB end up taking the fall, like everywhere else. Vick is 15-16 in the last 2 seasons. Guy is the most physically gifted QB I have ever seen. Never been a speed/athletic abilitiy/arm strength combo like this. But when is he going to start living up the #1 pick in the draft billing?

This is true. Vick actually flew under the radar for the most part in season the last couple of years. I think the more info we get right away has been the biggest problem of early pick QBs, and Vick was drafted just before the media got to this insane point. The sad thing is even if Vick is proved innocent without a shadow of a doubt, this already has put the spotlight on an already important year for him. Every week is going to be dissected like his career depended on it.

[bkrich83]

Quote: Originally Posted by wwharton

Your indifference initially is also why I believe it's possible Vick wasn't involved, even if he did have knowledge. ESPN educated you to the point that you now properly appreciate the seriousness of these dog fights. So why isn't it just as possible that Vick (and/or Portis) was indifferent due to ignorance? It seems rather likely to me. Personally, unless there is proof that he was actually there fighting the dogs or betting in person, my opinion of Vick won't change one bit.

I can live with that. But wouldn't you say that there are an awful lot of coincidences that are sort of related for him not have been involved somehow? Not saying he for sure was, but when you factor in the house, the fact that he's big in to breeding pits, and now the confidential informant, starting to see a pattern. Each one of these doesn't hold much water on their own merit, but as you start to add them up, I think you'd be naive if you didn't at least think there was a good chance he's been involved in dog fighting some how, some way.

Quote: Originally Posted by wwharton

If he knew what was going on he still deserves to be punished, but ignorant indifference doesn't make him scum of the earth. I'll stay away from all the racial talk but this type of judgment parallels a much bigger situation in which case it wouldn't be the PC view point like here.

Odds are if he was involved and knew what was going on, he new exactly what dog fighting was all about.

Quote: Originally Posted by wwharton

This is true. Vick actually flew under the radar for the most part in season the last couple of years. I think the more info we get right away has been the biggest problem of early pick QBs, and Vick was drafted just before the media got to this insane point. The sad thing is even if Vick is proved innocent without a shadow of a doubt, this already has put the spotlight on an already important year for him. Every week is going to be dissected like his career depended on it.

Agreed. Whether he's innocent or guilty, the spotlight will be on him, as I think a lot of people see this as a make or break season for him. Time for excuses and pointing the finger at everyone else is over.

Interesting I saw them talking to him the other day. His quote was something to the effect of "No matter what I do, people will still back me". Kind of turned me off a bit. But I might have seen it out of context.

[Lintyfresh85]

Quote: Originally Posted by wwharton

After all you wrote, this quote explains the complete opposite of your argument. It's very irresponsible but also very possible, just the way you explained it. Vick may have been somehow involved, but this was my first thought and nothing else has come out to make me think any differently really. Your indifference initially is also why I believe it's possible Vick wasn't involved, even if he did have knowledge. ESPN educated you to the point that you now properly appreciate the seriousness of these dog fights. So why isn't it just as possible that Vick (and/or Portis) was indifferent due to ignorance? It seems rather likely to me. Personally, unless there is proof that he was actually there fighting the dogs or betting in person, my opinion of Vick won't change one bit. If he knew what was going on he still deserves to be punished, but ignorant indifference doesn't make him scum of the earth. I'll stay away from all the racial talk but this type of judgment parallels a much bigger situation in which case it wouldn't be the PC view point like here. Vick needs to grow up and be more responsible. No question about that. At this point, that's my only off field criticism of him. This is true. Vick actually flew under the radar for the most part in season the last couple of years. I think the more info we get right away has been the biggest problem of early pick QBs, and Vick was drafted just before the media got to this insane point. The sad thing is even if Vick is proved innocent without a shadow of a doubt, this already has put the spotlight on an already important year for him. Every week is going to be dissected like his career depended on it.

The informant they interviewed said Vick was there personally at the fights with his group of dogs... The girl that interviewed him was on Cowherd this morning and she said the informant first started seeing Vick at the fights in the year 2000 and he's been a big spender ever since. Also mentioned another pro football player would show up. Some running back who's in jail now for dog fighting... also said the informant was verified by a federal agent cause they have used this guys testimony to put others away before...

So the point is, Vick seems to be deeply intertwined with this dog fighting business and is a big time gambler of the matches.

[Psyblast]

This whole thing seemed really disturbing when I saw the story on SportsCenter last night.

"Everybody in the dog world is afraid that Mike Vick's gonna talk."

[TheMatrix31]

So what are the chances he goes to prison?

[snepp]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheMatrix31

So what are the chances he goes to prison?

Zilch.