Who is the most overrated Player in the NFL?

[bkrich83]

Quote: Originally Posted by Adam Dayton

I am not about speculation. My original point has always been that L.T has not made enough noise in playoff games to either help his team win or to carry his team on his back like a great player does, and I am right. He has either not done enough to help his team win deep into the playoffs or he has simply not performed well (other than Pat's game, Tennessee I disagree with), criteria of which I judge players (at key positions) upon when evaluating their level of greatness. L.T. is still great, but his performance in the NFL as a whole (not nfl regular season) does not march the hype, albeit slightly. Yes, I feel that a superbowl ring can somewhat rectify a mediocre playoff performance such was apparently the case of Payton. He did enough to help his team win, again see my third sentence of this paragraph for my feelings on that matter. The fact that you are responding to someone calling a hallmark player on your favorite team SLIGHTLY overrated is laughable. A person could make an ok argument that anyone is slightly overrated if you think about enough. At worse case they would be wrong, but ridiculous is an innapropriately strong word, again showcasing homerism. You say you are not above criticizing your own teams players if need be, but I have yet to see you offer any form of criticism to the star players on your team. Critiquing underperforming wider recievers or mediocre safeties or what have you while overlooking your teams top 2-3 is hardly enough to show that you are unbiased to the point of being able to uphold neutral conversations.

When LT needs criticizing I have no qualms about doing it. Hard to criticize a guy who's left it on the field every game he's played. I have criticized Rivers, Merriman etc, plenty. Can't really criticize Gates, except for his tendency to hold when trying to hook his man on certain run plays, which I have done ad nauseum as well as his prior habit of bending that seam route to the inside a bit much vs. certain coverages.

So again, by your standards Payton and Sanders are overrated as well. Neither ever carried their teams in the post-season. From a number perspective they are pretty close as well.

Your argument that a player needs to carry his team in the postseason to be considered an all-timer is ridiculous, and eliminates two other players who were clearly amongst the greatest of all-time from being considered so.

As I said, it's become the "in" thing to do these days to criticize Tomlinson for whatever reason. I don't get it, but it is what it is.

[Adam Dayton]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

Clutch in the playoffs, SB, final 8, WS and NBA Championship is overrated. It's all subjective of who and what clutch is during the post season. Any player can get hot or cold in the post season. It's a very small sample size.

So you feel that not being clutch in the playoffs (aka performing up to the standard you set for yourself in the regular season) should have absolutely no impact on how one rates a player? At this point, I have heard few discuss L.T.'s mediocre post season play, and many gush about every aspect of his game. Hence, why I feel he is slighly overrated since IMO his play (season and playoffs as a whole) does not entirely live up to the image the media, fans, casual fans, etc create. If your answer is yes to my question then all I can say is I disagree

[Adam Dayton]

Quote: Originally Posted by bkrich83

When LT needs criticizing I have no qualms about doing it. Hard to criticize a guy who's left it on the field every game he's played. I have criticized Rivers, Merriman etc, plenty. Can't really criticize Gates, except for his tendency to hold when trying to hook his man on certain run plays, which I have done ad nauseum as well as his prior habit of bending that seam route to the inside a bit much vs. certain coverages. So again, by your standards Payton and Sanders are overrated as well. Neither ever carried their teams in the post-season. From a number perspective they are pretty close as well. Your argument that a player needs to carry his team in the postseason to be considered an all-timer is ridiculous, and eliminates two other players who were clearly amongst the greatest of all-time from being considered so. As I said, it's become the "in" thing to do these days to criticize Tomlinson for whatever reason. I don't get it, but it is what it is.

You are simply wrong, I have stated multiple times my argument is that doing enough to help your team advance in the playoffs or carrying a team on your back holds WEIGHT when RATING a player, you brought up the all time great talk. At this point, that aspect of L.T's game is being overlooked by the fans, media, ect (aka the hypemakers) and at this point the production does not match the hype, but to a small degree. That has always been my point and if a player does not meet this criteria than yes, they could be overrated, but slightly so. If postseason play didn't matter than why does Marino get hasseled every second of his postcareer life. I feel postseason play matters to players of key positions such as QBs' and RB's. Last time I checked Bkrich, there is more to the NFL than the single season.

[roadman]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree, then.

I'm not hear to change anyone's opinion's, but at least think of all the possibilities.

Does this mean Trent Dilfer is a clutch QB because he won one SB game and Dan Marino is overrated because he didn't one a SB game?

Barry Sanders was held to -1 yd running in a playoff game, but that doesn't mean I feel the guy isn't clutch or overrated.

Is Kobe not clutch because he couldn't raise his team because of one 7 game series?

I just feel post season and NCAA tourney's are too small a sample size to rate anyone clutch or not clutch. Too many variables and factors to consider.

[Aggies7]

If you base a player being overrated on how much he makes, I am taking Matt Ryan. I was disgusted with the contract he received, and personally hate these rookies making all that money in a rookie contract.

I would also throw Roy Williams in the mix. ( Dont take that personally Grunt )

[Adam Dayton]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

I guess we will have to agree to disagree, then. I'm not hear to change anyone's opinion's, but at least think of all the possibilities. Does this mean Trent Dilfer is a clutch QB because he one one SB game and Dan Marino is overrated because he didn't one a SB game? Barry Sanders was held to -1 yd running in a playoff game, but that doesn't mean I feel the guy isn't clutch or overrated. Is Kobe not clutch because he couldn't raise his team because of one 7 game series? I just feel post season and NCAA tourney's are too small a sample size to rate anyone clutch or not clutch. Too many variable and factors to consider.

You are thinking in terms of one game, I am talking about in terms of ones career. Everyone has a bad game, but ultimately yes the individuals cumulative playoff performances do factor in when gauging their overall talent. I don't have his numbers, but if Sanders consistently did not do much in the playoffs than I would not argue with someone saying he was slightly overrated. I think people freak out when they hear that word overrated, it simply means that their hype does not match the level of performance. If someone is known as the greatest of all time with no flaws to their game, I would see their inability to be clutch in key postseason situations (doing enough to help their team advance or simply beasting it out) as an overlooked element of their craft, hence making them overhyped. BTW the fact that the Dolphins got to the Superbowl was due to Marino's play. I am not one of the many people who thinks hes overrated, but the argument exists.

[bkrich83]

Quote: Originally Posted by Adam Dayton

You are simply wrong,

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. I am sure you won't be the last to feel the same way.

\

Quote: Originally Posted by Adam Dayton

I have stated multiple times my argument is that doing enough to help your team advance in the playoffs or carrying a team on your back holds WEIGHT when RATING a player, you brought up the all time great talk. At this point, that aspect of L.T's game is being overlooked by the fans, media, ect (aka the hypemakers) and at this point the production does not match the hype, but to a small degree. That has always been my point and if a player does not meet this criteria than yes, they could be overrated, but slightly so. If postseason play didn't matter than why does Marino get hasseled every second of his postcareer life. I feel postseason play matters to players of key positions such as QBs' and RB's. Last time I checked Bkrich, there is more to the NFL than the single season.

Actually if you read the thread, you were the one who brought up LT being considered an all-time great.

I found it funny you claim LT to be overrated, and even named him in a thread entitled "Who is the most overrated player in the NFL", based on his postseason efforts. Yet when I bring up other great players who have had similiar efforts in the postseason using your own criteria of "carrying his team in the postseason", you all of a sudden backtracked and added excuses and caveats.

You're obviously entitled to your own opinion, and maybe you just flat out don't like the guy for whatever reason, but your reasoning is pretty thin, and you don't apply it to others who are also considered all-timers.

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by Adam Dayton

You are thinking in terms of one game, I am talking about in terms of ones career. Everyone has a bad game, but ultimately yes the individuals cumulative playoff performances do factor in when gauging their overall talent. I don't have his numbers, but if Sanders consistently did not do much in the playoffs than I would not argue with someone saying he was slightly overrated. I think people freak out when they hear that word overrated, it simply means that their hype does not match the level of performance. If someone is known as the greatest of all time with no flaws to their game, I would see their inability to be clutch in key postseason situations (doing enough to help their team advance or simply beasting it out) as an overlooked element of their craft, hence making them overhyped. BTW the fact that the Dolphins got to the Superbowl was due to Marino's play. I am not one of the many people who thinks hes overrated, but the argument exists.

I'm not talking just one game, I'm talking post season play, whether it's the playoffs or the big game.

I've listed players who are nobody's during the season and have a few big games in the post season. Of all sudden, these avg players are not elevated to clutch performers. Where were they during the season?

In baseball, Craig Counsell is a perfect example. No one heard of Counsell during the season, but he hits the crap out of the ball WS time, and all of a sudden, he is clutch?

A-Rod is on the other side. Arguably the best player in the league and he tanks in the off season. Is he overrated for tanking under the big lights? I don't think so.

I just feel clutch is very overrated. Football is a team game with 45 guys on the field. Baseball is about the only sport that is one vs one.

I don't look at playoff stats or post season stats to determine if someone is overrated or underrated.

I'll look at the overall stats and if that person didn't do squat in the postseason, I don't think any less of them as what they contributed to their whole career.