How good is Tony Dungy?

[z Revis]

Quote: Originally Posted by N51_rob

wwharton, I see now the point you are trying to get at. Honestly I don't know. I have a hard time believing that he could be successful (multiple playoff apearences) in say Detroit or Oakland. He has had talent on one side of the ball or another everywhere he has gone. Either offensively or defensively. I would also like to look at his coaching tree. Off the top of my head he has Kiffen and Tomlin. Though I don't think Monty would've ever gotten a HC job in the NFL.

He's the one that hired Kiffin and Tomlin and Herman Edwards and Marvin Lewis. He brought those guys in himself. I don't want to say that he made those coaches. But all of them will tell you that they use a lot of his coaching strategies. And seriously I don't understand why you guys say he's had talent everywhere he's gone...OK!? What great coach doesn't have talent around them? Come on man. Use your head. You can't be successful without good players and a good coach and organization. It's common sense. They all work together and make themselves better. Dungy is a great coach, Landry was a great coach, Walsh was a great coach, Noll was a great coach...but none of them would have been successful with bad players and bad coaches around them. I'm not trying to bash you or anything, but that argument just doesn't make sense.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Tomlin, Marenelli, and Edwards are the only guys from Dungy's staff when he was in Tampa to become HCs.

[Kruza]

Don't forget Herm Edwards (Chiefs), Lovie Smith (Bears) and Rod Marinelli (Lions). These guys are also under Tony Dungy's coaching tree.

Kruza

[z Revis]

Yea I forgot about Marinelli and Lovie Smith

[N51_rob]

Quote: Originally Posted by z Revis

He's the one that hired Kiffin and Tomlin and Herman Edwards and Marvin Lewis. He brought those guys in himself. I don't want to say that he made those coaches. But all of them will tell you that they use a lot of his coaching strategies. And seriously I don't understand why you guys say he's had talent everywhere he's gone...OK!? What great coach doesn't have talent around them? Come on man. Use your head. You can't be successful without good players and a good coach and organization. It's common sense. They all work together and make themselves better. Dungy is a great coach, Landry was a great coach, Walsh was a great coach, Noll was a great coach...but none of them would have been successful with bad players and bad coaches around them. I'm not trying to bash you or anything, but that argument just doesn't make sense.

Where did I say he wasn't a great coach? I was trying to answer the OP's original question now that I understood what he was after read my first post. The point I was trying to make is that if he or any coach were in Detroit or Oakland it would be hard for them to be successful and that would diminish their legacy. Look at Mariuchi (sp) hasn't had a job since Detroit. Before them he was considered a top HC in the NFL.

I'm glad that you brought up those other names. The fact that his tree has sprung some great coaches and coordinators boost his stock as a great coach. The fact that (again not playing the race card but pointing something out) 3 black head coaches in the NFL are from his tree is a huge accomplishment. He has arguably done more for black head coaches in the NFL than the Rooney rule.

[wwharton]

Quote: Originally Posted by N51_rob

wwharton, I see now the point you are trying to get at. Honestly I don't know. I have a hard time believing that he could be successful (multiple playoff apearences) in say Detroit or Oakland. He has had talent on one side of the ball or another everywhere he has gone. Either offensively or defensively. I would also like to look at his coaching tree. Off the top of my head he has Kiffen and Tomlin. Though I don't think Monty would've ever gotten a HC job in the NFL.

Good point about the coaches. I think that can go one of two ways. His other coaches are so great that they make him look better (he did keep the OC in Indy from before he got there, right?) or there's more evidence of what he's actually done for the team.

Quote: Originally Posted by z Revis

He's the one that hired Kiffin and Tomlin and Herman Edwards and Marvin Lewis. He brought those guys in himself. I don't want to say that he made those coaches. But all of them will tell you that they use a lot of his coaching strategies. And seriously I don't understand why you guys say he's had talent everywhere he's gone...OK!? What great coach doesn't have talent around them? Come on man. Use your head. You can't be successful without good players and a good coach and organization. It's common sense. They all work together and make themselves better. Dungy is a great coach, Landry was a great coach, Walsh was a great coach, Noll was a great coach...but none of them would have been successful with bad players and bad coaches around them. I'm not trying to bash you or anything, but that argument just doesn't make sense.

Good point, and pretty much exactly what I was looking for. I really like Dungy, and even if he is just a good coach that's benefited from his surroundings, he'll deserves the HOF for the success he's had as a black coach and for how successful he's been with his coaching style. But I think you make some really good points about the coaches that have been under him. That says a lot.

[dark_warhawk]

please don't toss Tony Dungy with Edwards. first off he served under Marty Schottenheimer 1 year longer then he served with Dungy, so it rather interesting people associate Herm with Tony rather then Marty... was a DB coach for him form 90-95. Second Herm is the worst game day coach I have ever laid eyes on and any chiefs or Jets fan will confirm that. To be honest if I was tony I would not want to say he from my coaching circle. Herm will be done after this season. probably get a job at CBS or something.

as for Tony I'm not sure 1 Superbowl win = hall of fame. and were in the world do you guys get Marvin Lewis with Dungy? he never served under Dungy he is from the Bill Cowher coaching tree and become a hot prospect coach under Brian Billick. Ill give you the others and I really like Mike Tomlin could be far better then the other num nuts by a mile.

[SoxFan01605]

I think what makes Dungy a great coach is how he handles the talent he has and gets them together. It's not just about team building, it's about keeping the team together as well. Yes, the player plays a part in this, but the coach is the one who keeps it together. There are several coaches who needed talent to get it done. Belichick, for example, didn't build NE from the ground up. He got that train started with a team that already had a foundation. What was he when he coached the Browns?

There are two primary types of "great coaches" IMO. Those who do well with bringing talent together and those that are team builders. Parcells, for example, is a team builder. He can piece a team together from virtually nothing and turn them around. I see Tony Dungy as the other kind.

It's comparable to basketball's Phill Jackson. He has never built a team up. He hasn't won with a moderately talented team. I don't even know if he could build a team. What he's stellar at though, is taking a talented team filling in the holes with good role players. Tony dungy does this. He didn't build the killer D, but he made them competative They play big when they need to often times, and they seem to always be able to retool and plug holes. He did get Peyton, Marvin, and James handed to him, but he also surrounded them with excellent complimentary players and supplimented their talent as some guys left, got injured, etc. Think about it, they actually won the SB in the year they were considered weakest during that stretch, based on talent level.

He's gotten the job done throughout his career. Plus, he clearly has his teams respect and attention, which is also no small feat in the modern era. Leadership is as big of a factor as X's and O's, and Tony Dungy exudes top notch leadership.

I don't think the comparison to Billick is particularly apt because Brian never really got his offense on track after the D slowed down a bit (meaning they went through a phase where they couldn't carry the team to the top). I think Billick was also a mixed bag when it came to communicating to his players. He has always been known as very prideful and somewhat arrogant which is where Dungy also has an edge within the current construct of the NFL and the NFL players pysche.

Tony Dungy is a great coach. He may not be the defensive genious people thought he was or he may be...i dunno. I think the fact he recognized where his bread and butter was, and built a defense that could support that style shows good insight. Would I put him among the absolute all-time greats...not yet. I do think he's right there at the doorstep if he decides to stick around and continues what he's done to this point though.