People who belong in the Hall Of Fame

[CW McGraw]

I don't know if Fisher is total garbage, but after a decade and a half on a team it seems you're given more of a free pass.

[wwharton]

Quote: Originally Posted by CW McGraw

I don't know if Fisher is total garbage, but after a decade and a half on a team it seems you're given more of a free pass.

Especially when that team's been one of the most successful franchises in the NFL during that time, including a trip to the SB and about an inch from winning it.

[CW McGraw]

Quote: Originally Posted by wwharton

Especially when that team's been one of the most successful franchises in the NFL during that time, including a trip to the SB and about an inch from winning it.

He's had 6 winning seasons in 15 years as a head coach. He's not that great, even if he almost won a SB. By contrast, Mike Shanahan had 5 non winning seasons in Denver. Fisher wouldn't even make my Hall of Very Good. He's been an above average coach whose been lucky enough to have a patient front office.

[TheWatcher]

Jim Marshall --- Borderliner

Charles Haley --- Yes

Doug Williams --- Are you kidding? No.

Pat Tillman --- Wasn't a great player. No.

Andre Reed --- Absolutely. One of the greatest receivers of all time.

Chris Carter --- Yes. One of the all-time greats.

Dermonti Dawson --- Maybe.

Phil Simms --- No. He really needed to get a second ring. Sometimes it matters in terms of getting you into the hall, that's just the way it is. His stats were good, but not spectacular enough. Sucks about the injury.



I think...

Terrell Davis

Pat Fischer (perhaps the most slept on DB of all-time).

Shannon Sharpe

Russ Grimm

Ray Guy

Randy Grandishar

Jerry Kramer

Blanton Collier

Tom Flores

Bill Polian

Steve Tasker

Kent Hull

Dan Reeves

Don Coryell


Serious Borderliners:

Randall Cunningham

Andre Rison

Ben Coates

Jimmy Smith

Cliff Branch

Mark Duper

Richard Dent

Chris Doleman

L.C. Greenwood

Ottis "O.J." Anderson

Lester Hayes

Jimmy Johnson

Ed/Steve Sabol

Clyde Simmons

Irving Fryar

Ricky Watters

Roger Craig

Harold Carmichael

Sterling Sharpe

Herschel Walker (His overall numbers as a RB, receiver and return man are stunning).

Boomer Esiason

Steve Atwater

Rod Smith

Tiki Barber

Keyshawn Johnson

Curtis Martin

Mike Alstott

Lorenzo Neal (will be a borderliner because of his position)

Eddie George

Brian Mitchell (his numbers are ridiculous as an all-around player)

Edgerrin James (he'll get some votes)

Steve McNair (posted better stats than Troy Aikman in a number of categories and never had a single great receiver or played with a great team surrounding him).

Marty Schottenheimer (but man, what a choker in big games. Always makes a dumb decision).

Future HOF'ers:

Marshall Faulk

Marvin Harrison

Tony Gonzalez

Randy Moss

Tom Brady

Peyton Manning

Orlando Pace

Jonathan Ogden

Kurt Warner

Hines Ward

Jerome Bettis

Ty Law

Tedi Bruschi

Jerry Rice

Emmitt Smith

Junior Seau

Ray Lewis

Brian Urlacher

Willie McGinest (NFL's all-time Postseason Sack Leader)

Ladanian Tomlinson

Terrell Owens

Issac Bruce

Torry Holt

Steve Smith (projection)

Brett Favre

Donovan McNabb

Brian Dawkins

Champ Bailey

Ben Roethlisberger (Projection)

Michael Strahan

Warren Sapp

Ronde Barber

Derrick Brooks

Adam Vinatieri

Ed Reed

Bill Cowher

Mike Shanahan

Mike Holmgren

Tony Dungy

Bill Parcells

Bill Belichick

Tom Coughlin (You can't argue against the man's success in building a winner with an expansion team in Jacksonville, and then turning the Giants around and winning the Super Bowl).

Diick Vermeil

Jeff Fisher (may need a ring)

Andy Reid (needs a ring though)

[TheWatcher]

Quote: Originally Posted by CW McGraw

He's had 6 winning seasons in 15 years as a head coach. He's not that great, even if he almost won a SB. By contrast, Mike Shanahan had 5 non winning seasons in Denver. Fisher wouldn't even make my Hall of Very Good. He's been an above average coach whose been lucky enough to have a patient front office.

I can't say Fisher was ever blessed with a ton of great talent on the offensive side of the ball. Outside of McNair and George, it was pretty thin. It should also be noted that he had 4 seasons where he went 8-8 which isn't bad at all since that can sometimes get you into the playoffs (although it didn't in his case). Those records really say more about the average talent he had in many years in my opinion.

As for Shanahan, I have little doubt that he'll make it. He was instrumental in making a number of personnel moves that helped the Broncos become a force in the mid-late 90's (although we now know he fudged some numbers to make some of the moves), and he did with John Elway what no one else could.

[TheWatcher]

Quote: Originally Posted by wwharton

Especially when that team's been one of the most successful franchises in the NFL during that time, including a trip to the SB and about an inch from winning it.

They actually would've only tied the game if they'd scored, provided they made the extra point.

[TheWatcher]

Quote: Originally Posted by SPTO

Moon won a number of Grey Cups so that has to count for something.

5 consecutive Grey Cups to be exact. A feat that will never be duplicated, and he did it during a time when the CFL's talent was high unlike now. I think the HOF panel took that into consideration when voting.

[TheWatcher]

Quote: Originally Posted by shotgun styles

You're stomping on your pro-Tom Brady argument elsewhere on the forums. Tom won because of his kicker. All three AFC Championship games, and all three Superbowls came off Vinietari's foot.

Shotgun.. didn't we go through this already? The third title was not won by a GW field goal. The Patriots were ahead 24-14, when Dexter Reid gave up a late TD to make it 24-21. Again, it was not won by a GW field goal.

I gave up on the other debate about Brady because of all the hating, lol. But seriously, Let's at least get the facts straight...

It doesn't matter how you win, it just matters that you win. Adam Vinatieri is a great player, he'll be in the HOF. But he would've never been in a position to do a single thing had Brady and the team overall not put him in position to do so. Kickers don't make reads, and they don't throw clutch passes. You need those things throughout the course of an entire game to even have a chance. QB's do those things, and that's what Brady did in all 4 Super Bowls including the one that was lost.

I'll also reiterate once again the following:

*During the TWO (only two) times that a GW FG was needed for the Pats to win the Super Bowl, the games were tied... tied. So even if Vinatieri had missed, the Patriots would not have lost right then and there. It would have at least gone to overtime.

Let's not allow hate to distort the facts. Now this is the second time I'm telling you this... when you will accept these facts?

Quote: Originally Posted by shotgun styles

Remember "Wide Right"? If Kelly has a better kicker, he wins at least one of those games.

I'll never blame Scott Norwood for that loss. Never. The Bills were stacked with talent, and were simply a better team than the Giants. It should've never come down to a field goal. Marv Levy got out-coached and the Bills overall got out-physicaled. It's the one Super Bowl I can say for sure they should've won. The next three? Not so much.