Randy Moss. Hall of Famer?

[SPTO]

Quote: Originally Posted by Freelance

Monk never did anything "memorable". He was steady Freddy, but he doesn't have signature catches or games that make him stand out as a cut above.

There was an excellent video that was posted on youtube a couple years back that showed tons of long form clips of Monk and some of the great catches and games he had. Sure he wasn't flashy but the guy was counted on for big 3rd down conversions especially in the first half of his career. You also have to remember that for the 2nd half of his career the 'skins got a lot better WR corps so he didn't HAVE to always make the big catch.

The man sacrificed his body by always catching the tough pass smack dab in the middle of the field. Monk also held most of the WR records when he retired. He can't help it if Jerry Rice dwarfed everyone.

As for Moss I think he will get in eventually but he'll have to wait a while. (probably 4-5 years)

[ZB9]

Quote: Originally Posted by Cebby

I'm not saying Hayes wasn't a "pioneer" of running down the field.

yea it's not that simple lol

Im talking about teams looking for players that can excel and dominate mainly as a deep threat without having every other traditional aspect of a WR...the type of players that teams started to look for at WR with freak vertical speed...Im talking about players that changed the way defenses had to play that team because of their mere presence on the field...the rule changes in the NFL that came because of it...the different excitement that was brought to the game, etc.etc.

Quote:

My issue is with your nonsense that "there might not even be a Moss if not for Hayes and players of his ilk that came after him."

I think it was pretty obvious that statement wasnt 100 percent literal. You might need to turn your hyperbole meter back on. It is a figure of speech that people use when talking about firsts of certain areas of the game and those that started the evolution of certain aspects of the sport.

anyway, you grabbed onto that statement, but that isnt even my main point. I was responding to your comments implying that someone cant possibly compare Bob Hayes to Randy Moss. You scoffed at the very mention of the two players in the same sentence. That is ridiculous on your part considering Hayes was the first Moss, as far as a player that can be so dominant as a deep threat

Quote:

It's just a stupid statement and implies that football coaches are so stupid that they can't connect tall, fast, dominant WR with running down the field.

again, what is stupid is scoffing at someone comparing Bob Hayes and Randy Moss considering we are talking about the first dominant deep threat and the best deep threat in the modern era

[Cebby]

Quote: Originally Posted by ZB9

I think it was pretty obvious that statement wasnt 100 percent literal. You might need to turn your hyperbole meter back on.

Given your record as a notorious homer, it's hard to tell when you are hyperbolizing and when you are just making stupid comments.

Quote:

You scoffed at the very mention of the two players in the same sentence. That is ridiculous on your part considering Hayes was the first Moss, as far as a player that can be so dominant as a deep threat

It's not ridiculous. George Mikan was the first "dominant center", but I'm taking Shaq or Hakeem over him 11 days of the week.

Same thing with Moss.

[ZB9]

Quote: Originally Posted by Cebby

It's not ridiculous. George Mikan was the first "dominant center", but I'm taking Shaq or Hakeem over him 11 days of the week. Same thing with Moss.

I would take Moss over Hayes also. Moss is probably the 2nd best WR of all time imo, behind only Rice (which ive stated in the other Moss thread that Dice started, and in other WR ranking threads on this site numerous times)

That isnt the point. Im not going to bother explaining the point to you further...but maybe if you reread the posts in this thread, starting at post #29, you will get it.

[J_Posse]

Quote: Originally Posted by ZB9

I would take Moss over Hayes also. Moss is probably the 2nd best WR of all time imo, behind only Rice (which ive stated in the other Moss thread that Dice started, and in other WR ranking threads on this site numerous times) That isnt the point. Im not going to bother explaining the point to you further...but maybe if you reread the posts in this thread, starting at post #29, you will get it.

Randy Moss is freak of nature, but I would have to disagree about him being the 2nd best WR ever. People seem to forget that there was the guy who played in Indy and put up monster numbers with this other guy named Manning? Well, I believe he's the second greatest WR ever.

[FootballSchemer]

This is the stupidest thread ive ever read, thats even by my own standards...

[Cebby]

Quote: Originally Posted by J_Posse512

People seem to forget that there was the guy who played in Indy and put up monster numbers with this other guy named Manning?

Numbers wise, Moss is far better than Harrison.

Moss put up HUGE numbers in the one season he played with a great QB and Moss had passed his prime.

In 2 fewer years, Moss caught 7 more TDs and 1379 fewer yards.

Aside from having better numbers, when you look at the situations each were in, it isn't close.

Harrison played 11 of his 13 years with the best QB in the NFL over that time.

Moss played 1 year with a great QB. He played 1.5 years with a has been who was a backup for 3 years, 5.5 years with a QB who was abysmal after Moss left, 2 years with the circus in Oakland, and 1 with a guy who hadn't started since high school.

If Moss and Harrison switched places and Moss stayed motivated, it's possible that Moss would be very close to Rice's records.

I would compare Moss/Harrison to Barry Sanders/Emmitt Smith.

While the second in the group are undoubtedly fantastic players and no question Hall of Famers, they were put in great positions to succeed and passed with flying colors. The other two were put in below average to bad situations yet were even better.