Baltimore could be dangerous if they make the playoffs

[wwharton]

Quote: Originally Posted by z Revis

Ben isn't worth nearly as much as Peyton is to the Colts. That wasn't my point though. The point was, take away the most important player away from any team and they'll struggle to win games. That's what the Steelers had to do, they had to play without their most important player and their 2nd most important player. And they lost. I was basically saying that, every team has injuries, but most teams don't have injuries as damaging as the Steelers have had the last couple weeks, including the Ravens. That was the main reason why I said "without Big Ben and Polamalu". I could've said the Ravens were without Suggs, or whoever. But since Suggs isn't as important to the Ravens as Big Ben is to the Steelers, I didn't say that. Now if Ray Lewis or Flacco or Ed Reed, or whoever, were out for the Ravens I would've ignored that point entirely since both teams would have been playing without extremely important players. EDIT: You are correct though. Who knows how a game would turn out if every player were healthy. My original post wasn't about whether I'm worried about the Ravens against the Colts. I did say, since I'm a Colts fan, if the Colts were to play the Ravens I wouldn't be too worried, but that wasn't the main point.. but since that's what you wanted to talk about.. that's what it turned into. The main point about my original post was that, yes the Ravens have had a tough schedule, but they've also lost most of those games. If they're really that dangerous, I think they would've won more of those tough games. Just my opinion though, obviously the OP feels a different way.

And that's basically why this has gone on longer than it should have. Your opinion is a valid one, I just took exception with what you listed to get to it. I also think Freelance's post is a valid one. No way of telling which is right unless they get a chance to play the games. For the record I thought the Ravens would win even if Ben played. I actually was hoping he played. If you want to change it to a 100% Ben then give me a 100% Flacco, Ray, Reed, Suggs, etc. That's why I don't want to play that game. I wish both Ben and Troy had played. Both were expected to play for a few days, and Ben all the way up to Saturday and the spread still sat in BAL's favor so Vegas seems to have agreed with me.

"Great teams" as you said, usually come out of a schedule like the Ravens have had between 12-4 and 11-5. The Ravens still have a very good chance at 11-5 and I wouldn't even call them a "great team". They need to get to 10-6 to make the playoffs, and if they get 10 or 11 wins, that'd mean they got momentum and finished strong heading into the playoffs. At that point, 10 or 11 wins, strong finish and battle tested against that schedule and you have the very definition of a dangerous team (see PIT and BAL last year... see BAL in 2000 or even PIT in Ben's first SB).

I agree with LBzRules though, I'm still not sold they CAN make the playoffs. Their pattern this year would have me giving them 9-7... in which case the entire thread doesn't matter bc they won't be in the playoffs anyway. But if they finish the season 4-1 or 5-0, make the playoffs and look back on how they got there, I'd say it's very fair to call them dangerous to anyone they match up with (I'd even have to include the Colts if they decide to rest players going into the post season again... let em all play!).

[z Revis]

Quote: Originally Posted by wwharton

And that's basically why this has gone on longer than it should have. Your opinion is a valid one, I just took exception with what you listed to get to it. I also think Freelance's post is a valid one. No way of telling which is right unless they get a chance to play the games. For the record I thought the Ravens would win even if Ben played. I actually was hoping he played. If you want to change it to a 100% Ben then give me a 100% Flacco, Ray, Reed, Suggs, etc. That's why I don't want to play that game. I wish both Ben and Troy had played. Both were expected to play for a few days, and Ben all the way up to Saturday and the spread still sat in BAL's favor so Vegas seems to have agreed with me. "Great teams" as you said, usually come out of a schedule like the Ravens have had between 12-4 and 11-5. The Ravens still have a very good chance at 11-5 and I wouldn't even call them a "great team". They need to get to 10-6 to make the playoffs, and if they get 10 or 11 wins, that'd mean they got momentum and finished strong heading into the playoffs. At that point, 10 or 11 wins, strong finish and battle tested against that schedule and you have the very definition of a dangerous team (see PIT and BAL last year... see BAL in 2000 or even PIT in Ben's first SB). I agree with LBzRules though, I'm still not sold they CAN make the playoffs. Their pattern this year would have me giving them 9-7... in which case the entire thread doesn't matter bc they won't be in the playoffs anyway. But if they finish the season 4-1 or 5-0, make the playoffs and look back on how they got there, I'd say it's very fair to call them dangerous to anyone they match up with (I'd even have to include the Colts if they decide to rest players going into the post season again... let em all play!).

You know, I didn't really think about it like that. Let's say they win out. If they finish 11-5 or even 10-6, then I'd definitely agree they're a dangerous team. I'd even say that I'd be a lot more worried to play them if it plays out like that. But if they finish 9-7, losses to Pittsburgh and Green Bay, I wouldn't consider them dangerous(they may not make the Playoffs going 9-7 anyways). And 9-7 is what I have them as. I picked Green Bay to win Monday Night 20-12. And with Pittsburgh getting healthy, at home, I think the Ravens would lose that game too. But certainly if they finish with 10-11 wins, they're very dangerous going into the Playoffs.

[Buckeyes_Doc]

Baltimore is a tough team, too bad they won't make the playoffs though.

[mjb2124]

Quote: Originally Posted by wwharton

the spread still sat in BAL's favor so Vegas seems to have agreed with me.

That's because it was a home game for Baltimore. Home teams always get 3pts from Vegas. Plus, I'm not sure I'd trust the Vegas odds that much, but that's just me.

FWIW, you're right that Ben was expected to play that game up until Saturday, but not Troy. I was so surprised Ben wasn't playing that I started him in Fantasy instead of Romo who went on Thursday (and this is in a $250 entry fee league so I'm not messing around). I still won that week without a QB because my team is loaded, but the point being...Ben being out was a very big surprise to many. In any case, Troy wasn't set to play against Baltimore as his expected return has always been against GB next week. He's out this week against OAK.

The "IF" game is always interesting. I still feel that if Ben had played, the Steelers win that game, but that's not what happened. The only reason I feel that way is that Dixon played pretty well for a guy making his first NFL start....however, he's no Ben. I'd like to think Ben would have been able to take advantage of things that a young QB like Dixon isn't able to take advantage (ie: Foxworth and the less than stellar Ravens secondary). Of course, the Steelers lost to KC with Ben so you never know.

[TheShizNo1]

Uh....couldn't every team that makes the playoffs be dangerous?.....b/c ya know....they made the playoffs

[steelcurtain311]

Eh. It became pretty evident to me after watching Baltimore's first 6 games or so, that this defense is not great. They're not getting a good pass rush, they can't cover worth a **** in the secondary. Offensively, Flacco is okay, their running game is decent, but Flacco certainly can't get it done without people making big plays. Seems like if you take away Mason, Flacco isn't nearly as effective.

I don't see them doing anything this season. They need to start rebuilding their defense as of this off season.

[Adam Dayton]

Quote: Originally Posted by steelcurtain311

Eh. It became pretty evident to me after watching Baltimore's first 6 games or so, that this defense is not great. They're not getting a good pass rush, they can't cover worth a **** in the secondary. Offensively, Flacco is okay, their running game is decent, but Flacco certainly can't get it done without people making big plays. Seems like if you take away Mason, Flacco isn't nearly as effective. I don't see them doing anything this season. They need to start rebuilding their defense as of this off season.

More or less. Steelers are looking pretty bad this year too. I could forsee both teams not making the playoffs.

[wwharton]

Quote: Originally Posted by z Revis

You know, I didn't really think about it like that. Let's say they win out. If they finish 11-5 or even 10-6, then I'd definitely agree they're a dangerous team. I'd even say that I'd be a lot more worried to play them if it plays out like that. But if they finish 9-7, losses to Pittsburgh and Green Bay, I wouldn't consider them dangerous(they may not make the Playoffs going 9-7 anyways). And 9-7 is what I have them as. I picked Green Bay to win Monday Night 20-12. And with Pittsburgh getting healthy, at home, I think the Ravens would lose that game too. But certainly if they finish with 10-11 wins, they're very dangerous going into the Playoffs.

Fair enough. I don't think they're dangerous at 9-7 and am hoping they get 10 or 11 but 9 wins is a reasonable expectation. I don't think 9 wins will get them in with all the teams in the hunt right now.

Quote: Originally Posted by mjb2124

That's because it was a home game for Baltimore. Home teams always get 3pts from Vegas. Plus, I'm not sure I'd trust the Vegas odds that much, but that's just me. FWIW, you're right that Ben was expected to play that game up until Saturday, but not Troy. I was so surprised Ben wasn't playing that I started him in Fantasy instead of Romo who went on Thursday (and this is in a $250 entry fee league so I'm not messing around). I still won that week without a QB because my team is loaded, but the point being...Ben being out was a very big surprise to many. In any case, Troy wasn't set to play against Baltimore as his expected return has always been against GB next week. He's out this week against OAK. The "IF" game is always interesting. I still feel that if Ben had played, the Steelers win that game, but that's not what happened. The only reason I feel that way is that Dixon played pretty well for a guy making his first NFL start....however, he's no Ben. I'd like to think Ben would have been able to take advantage of things that a young QB like Dixon isn't able to take advantage (ie: Foxworth and the less than stellar Ravens secondary). Of course, the Steelers lost to KC with Ben so you never know.

I don't think Ben would've done much more honestly. Dixon's legs helped and Ben's head wouldn't have ben in peak shape. That's why I wanted him to play. The big loss is, and always has been Troy, imo. Moving forward, Ben's presence means a lot but in that game starting Dixon was probably the right move.