Offense vs Defense

[Sidion]

62. Beyond 62 it's 99% the defenses fault (Even then though there's a still a .5% to the offense and a .5% to the coaching decisions)

As others have said the game is wayyy too complex to just be decided by a numeric value (Hence my huge number).

What if the opposing teams scores all came on pick 6's and safeties? I mean if my offense puts up 35 points, but also threw 2 picks and fumbled 3 times (all of which were returned for TDs) and the opposing offense just happened to score a 2 point conversion...

Isn't it my offenses fault regardless of the amount of points put up?

[oneamongthefence]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sidion

62. Beyond 62 it's 99% the defenses fault (Even then though there's a still a .5% to the offense and a .5% to the coaching decisions) As others have said the game is wayyy too complex to just be decided by a numeric value (Hence my huge number). What if the opposing teams scores all came on pick 6's and safeties? I mean if my offense puts up 35 points, but also threw 2 picks and fumbled 3 times (all of which were returned for TDs) and the opposing offense just happened to score a 2 point conversion... Isn't it my offenses fault regardless of the amount of points put up?

I'm talking purely from an offensive point of view. Not counting points off turnover. No matter where the offense gets the ball they have to score. I would also say a defense wins games. Offenses score but its up to your defense to stop the scoring (not accounting for points on turnover which we are ignoring for the sake of arguement anyway.)

Say each team didn't have any turnovers and they averaged starting on the 20.

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[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by oneamongthefence

A random question but I would like to hear opinions on the matter. How many points must an offense score where a loss isn't their fault? You can't say less than the other team. For example if a team loses by 20 but the score is 55-35 can you really blame the offense for the loss? I would say 24. That's one TD a quarter. Which seems like a good goal to attain. This is strictly offensive points. Not points off turnovers or special teams.

More than the average number of points the other team gives up, and less than the average number of turnovers the other team forces.

So if they are facing a defense that gives up 16 points a game and gets 1 takeaway per game, and the offense manages 18 with 0 giveaways - they gave that other team a below average day and didn't make any mistakes to lose possessions that could have been points/made points for the other team.

That team's defense can't hold under 18, then maybe the team just isn't good enough in general. Not really the "fault" of any of the players. More how the team is put together. Perhaps they are rebuilding, or the GM just put a bad product on the field, thinking it was good. (i.e. he's a bad GM). Or it could be the coaching - bad play calls, etc.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by oneamongthefence

I'm talking purely from an offensive point of view. Not counting points off turnover. No matter where the offense gets the ball they have to score. I would also say a defense wins games. Offenses score but its up to your defense to stop the scoring (not accounting for points on turnover which we are ignoring for the sake of arguement anyway.) Say each team didn't have any turnovers and they averaged starting on the 20. .

The thing about taking out turnovers is that you could argue that giveaways are the offense's fault. If a team commits 5 turnovers, I'd say the offense deserves a decent share of the blame, even if they did score 21 points, somehow (say on 3 big plays). If that team loses 24-21, how can you not look at those turnovers, especially if points DID score on them. Like you said, the offense is to score points, not give the other team extra possessions on turnovers.

So saying "no turnovers" is taking away an area an offense can be blamed. Also, if their defense got takeaways, and offense could do nothing with those extra possessions (say they lose 24-21, even with going +5 in the turnover battle), that would be telling as well since the win probability of being +5 in the give/take ratio in a single game is insane. I wonder if it's ever happened where a team lost despite being +5?