How come you can spam sub attempts without any stamina penalty?

[BigSmoke]

Doesn't make sense to me, in real life if you get someone locked in the 4th "gate" of a triangle let's say and they escape, person attempting it would be tired af. Like really tired, legs burnt out type of thing. Same thing if you're going hard for an armbar or really any sub really that you squeeze on for a consistent amount of time, you'd be burnt out after. We see it all the time in fighting, guy goes really hard for sub first round or any round really and gasses himself out when he doesn't get it.

Iuri Alcantara vs Corey Sandhagen is a really good example of this off the top of my head, yet game doesn't reflect this at all. Also what is up with the dumb choke damage mechanic? Sorry, but never once in my life have I seen someone once again be in what Id call a "4th gate" of an arm triangle, them get out and get elbowed once in the face and lose by KO. It's not realistic at all, if that was the case Glover would've KO'd Fabio Maldonado with one elbow after a the tight arm triangle he had him in. I'd actually like to see someone pull up an example of this happening in a real mma match, bet It never has once. Lol

[GrimLeiper]

I've noticed this on two occasions, once from having it done to me. Then another time finding myself doing it (I had to finish the fight but he was escaping well).

I wasn't trying to spam subs, but if I create a stamina/grapple advantage, I'm gonna go for it.

When I was on the receiving end, they didn't really have any intentions of getting the sub. Or felt like that. Content with running down the clock...or gaming some points.


Sent from my HTC Desire 530 using Operation Sports mobile app

[LoveThisLife]

Quote: Originally Posted by GrimLeiper

I've noticed this on two occasions, once from having it done to me. Then another time finding myself doing it (I had to finish the fight but he was escaping well). I wasn't trying to spam subs, but if I create a stamina/grapple advantage, I'm gonna go for it. When I was on the receiving end, they didn't really have any intentions of getting the sub. Or felt like that. Content with running down the clock...or gaming some points. Sent from my HTC Desire 530 using Operation Sports mobile app

Papadoc does this heavy.

[LoveThisLife]

Quote: Originally Posted by BigSmoke

Doesn't make sense to me, in real life if you get someone locked in the 4th "gate" of a triangle let's say and they escape, person attempting it would be tired af. Like really tired, legs burnt out type of thing. Same thing if you're going hard for an armbar or really any sub really that you squeeze on for a consistent amount of time, you'd be burnt out after. We see it all the time in fighting, guy goes really hard for sub first round or any round really and gasses himself out when he doesn't get it. Iuri Alcantara vs Corey Sandhagen is a really good example of this off the top of my head, yet game doesn't reflect this at all. Also what is up with the dumb choke damage mechanic? Sorry, but never once in my life have I seen someone once again be in what Id call a "4th gate" of an arm triangle, them get out and get elbowed once in the face and lose by KO. It's not realistic at all, if that was the case Glover would've KO'd Fabio Maldonado with one elbow after a the tight arm triangle he had him in. I'd actually like to see someone pull up an example of this happening in a real mma match, bet It never has once. Lol

Great post.

Poor judging calls in the game: "Hey done leave it to the judges just like irl"

Sub spamming/Effective nonstop feinting/ Nonstop ground fakes/ 250 strikes in one round / Cartwheel kicks of death / driving TD into the cage from the center of the octagon / strikes that didn't connect eating your block / delayed block response/ etc..: "HEY, it's just a game... we cant provide simulation here"

[Papadoc60]

You also can't gas someone out by grappling them, there are a lot of things that need to change with stamina/subs/grappling for UFC 4 honestly.


Personally I feel like you can't spam sub attempts without penalty though, because if you deny a sub attempt they lose a lot of temporary stamina and you get a surge of grapple advantage. This should be enough for you to get back to full guard, or half guard and escape whichever position they have submissions for. Many submissions also have huge penalties for early denials. Someone in this thread mentioned that attempting submissions can be exhausting, but you know what else is exhausting? Defending them. Neiman Gracie vs Ed Ruth is a good example.

There are going to be many examples for both sides honestly, just like when you look at grappling exhausting the one doing the grappling vs exhausting the one being grappled.



If you deny the side control kimura early, you get stood up immediately. You can deny the arm triangle from half guard and side saddle early and reverse your opponent. I think submissions should give points for going through the gates, but I do agree the head damage mechanic can be pretty goofy sometimes.

[Papadoc60]

Quote: Originally Posted by LoveThisLife

Papadoc does this heavy.

Yeah, I'll attempt subs on anyone that will let me have them. It's up to the opponent to deny them, and obviously I try to finish these because I would like to win the fight but if I can't finish them I'll certainly take the head damage+points instead. It's the same thing as if your opponent doesn't hold block while you're trying to throw combos at them honestly, anyone is going to go for it.

[Good Grappler]

Lol I have no clue but damn is it OP in certain circumstances. Especially in full mount, it’s not even funny how bad this can be.

Once you get mount with a stamina advantage, you can effectively keep your opponent in a continual state of defending arm bar attempts until their stamina is empty. Simply attempting consecutive armbars will completely drain your opponent’s stamina.

Even if your opponent is escaping each sub attempt on the first or second gate, the stamina loss is massive. After 4 or 5 armbar attempts in a row, their stamina bar will be empty, and escaping is impossible.

Defensively, the options are so limited here. If you manage to pre-deny one of the sub attempts before you lose too much stamina, you might be able to save the situation. Just one successful denial can give you the GA needed to get your *** out of the situation.

But good luck doing that against someone who knows to mix up the timing of the sub attempts. Especially if they have armbars AND mounted triangles, and are able to switch up directions.

Plus most people don’t know which direction to deny armbars from mount. Doing so on reaction is almost impossible if you’re at even the slightest stamina disadvantage.

Once the process has started, it’s like inescapable. It just snowballs and snowballs. Eventually your stamina drains to a point where you’re totally ****ed for the rest of the round. Once your stamina is empty and your grapple disadvantage is maxed -100%, there’s nothing you can do unless your opponent sucks. You’re totally at their mercy for the remainder of the round, and there’s literally nothing you can do to regen stamina, even if you set your controller down.

The issue here, need it be said, is that consecutive attempts earn a stamina ADVANTAGE, and make subsequent attempts MORE easy. It should be the other way around - consecutive sub attempts should become less effective. Unless your name is Gregor Gillespie and you’re attempting arm triangles.

[BigSmoke]

Quote: Originally Posted by Good Grappler

Lol I have no clue but damn is it OP in certain circumstances. Especially in full mount, it’s not even funny how bad this can be. Once you get mount with a stamina advantage, you can effectively keep your opponent in a continual state of defending arm bar attempts until their stamina is empty. Simply attempting consecutive armbars will completely drain your opponent’s stamina. Even if your opponent is escaping each sub attempt on the first or second gate, the stamina loss is massive. After 4 or 5 armbar attempts in a row, their stamina bar will be empty, and escaping is impossible. Defensively, the options are so limited here. If you manage to pre-deny one of the sub attempts before you lose too much stamina, you might be able to save the situation. Just one successful denial can give you the GA needed to get your *** out of the situation. But good luck doing that against someone who knows to mix up the timing of the sub attempts. Especially if they have armbars AND mounted triangles, and are able to switch up directions. Plus most people don’t know which direction to deny armbars from mount. Doing so on reaction is almost impossible if you’re at even the slightest stamina disadvantage. Once the process has started, it’s like inescapable. It just snowballs and snowballs. Eventually your stamina drains to a point where you’re totally ****ed for the rest of the round. Once your stamina is empty and your grapple disadvantage is maxed -100%, there’s nothing you can do unless your opponent sucks. You’re totally at their mercy for the remainder of the round, and there’s literally nothing you can do to regen stamina, even if you set your controller down. The issue here, need it be said, is that consecutive attempts earn a stamina ADVANTAGE, and make subsequent attempts MORE easy. It should be the other way around - consecutive sub attempts should become less effective. Unless your name is Gregor Gillespie and you’re attempting arm triangles.

Yup sub attempts don't cost enough stamina imo, that **** from mount is actually what made me write this post, only thing that genuinely frustrates me really, that and unrealistic fakes on ground that you never see in real fighting. Problem though I believe is we need a block button on the ground and clinch like Undisputed series has, and then they should make transition reversals like how blocks are now with a much shorter window to do, blocking transition shouldn't be such an acquired skill, reversals should be.

And for the love of God they need to bring back the hook transition the undisputed series had. I hate to be "that guy" but I feel like I'm at the mercy of the game when it comes to the ground, I have no control over my transitions. Where in undisputed series I could choose to slowly transition, draw my opponents reversal out, then finish my transition, or go really fast, point being I had complete and total control over the transition itself which I do not have in this game.