Why Line Play Will Never Be Realistic in Football Games

Feature Article

Submitted on: 03/31/2011 by Jayson Young

With video game baseball season underway, it's the perfect time to make this analogy What realistic hitting would be to baseball games, realistic line play would be to football games -- unplayable for 95 percent of gamers.

To put things in perspective, a hitter at the MLB level has less than .25 seconds to judge a pitch's speed, location and decide whether or not to swing.

How Hard is it to Hit a Baseball?

Hitting major league pitching is so difficult, that succeeding 30 percent of the time is considered successful enough to earn a multi-million dollar contract.

NFL quarterbacks have more time to make decisions than MLB hitters, but with so much more data to take in, a NFL quarterback’s job is arguably the toughest in pro sports.

What Constitutes a "Realistic" Pass Rush?

The average NFL play lasts five seconds from snap to whistle.

A NFL quarterback is trained to get the ball out in less than three seconds -- 2.7 seconds, to be exact -- according to USA Today's study of the St. Louis Rams rookie quarterback, Sam Bradford.

Why three seconds? In a Sports Science test, Steelers outside linebacker LaMarr Woodley was able to break through two layers of pass protection in 2.6 seconds.

In another Sports Science video, Chargers defensive end Luis Castillo reached Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger in 1.3 seconds when coming unblocked off the edge -- just a few hundredths of a second before Roethlishberger could complete a five-step drop and get the ball out of his hand.

Are these just lab numbers unrelated to what happens on a real football field?

An analysis of Dwight Freeney's 25 sacks from 2009 and 2010 suggests that Sports Science's pass rush numbers are spot-on. According to ESPN Stats & Information, 2.5 seconds was the average time from snap to Freeney making contact with the quarterback.

Removing one sack from the sample pool that took 5.8 seconds (on this play, the QB rolled out to the sideline opposite Freeney), the time it took for each of Dwight Freeney's remaining sacks was an astonishing 2.1 seconds.

A "Realistic" Pass Rush Would Frustrate Most Gamers

Could gamers handle having only one to three seconds to make their reads and get the ball out before getting crushed by a realistic pass rush?

I believe 95 percent of gamers would be begging for a patch within a week of the game's release to fix the game's "broken" pass protection.

A similar reaction occurred with a recent football game -- a game that, before the pass protection was "fixed," had the most realistic line play of any football game to date: Natural Motion's Backbreaker.

When a bad offensive line goes against a good defensive line in Backbreaker, the results are ugly. A team can run the ball 30 times and end up with negative yardage at the end of the game. Quarterbacks can end up taking double-digit sacks.

In Backbreaker, a mismatch at the line of scrimmage plays out much like the 2008 Sugar Bowl in which Georgia demolished Hawaii's weak offensive line:

With only a four-man pass rush, Georgia's defense pressured Hawaii quarterback, Colt Brennan, into eight sacks, two fumbles and four interceptions.

NFL teams like the 2009 New York Giants, whose defensive line harassed Tom Brady en route to a Super Bowl XLII Giants victory, proved that a four-man pass rush can cause havoc even at the highest level of football.

Video Game Pass Rush Is Neutered To Satisfy Gaming Majority

Attempting to play as the video game equivalent of great 4-3 defenses like the Giants, Lions, Titans or Rams is an exercise in frustration.

Defensive ends do not get upfield, defensive tackles do not push the pocket back, and neither position seems to explode off the ball with the sub-five second 40-yard dash speed that today's NFL defensive linemen display.

In Madden and NCAA Football, defensive linemen get sucked into vacuum blocks, fail to use line moves properly, and don’t use the sprint button when pursuing the QB -- core issues that have gone unfixed in EA's football games for years. Even in All Pro Football 2K8, feared defensive linemen like Reggie White can be easily handled by a generic offensive line that is set to “pass block.”

Why are video game developers keeping the four-man pass rush from being the game-changing entity that it can be in real life?

To put it simply, because the people buying football video games are not NFL quarterbacks.

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Member Comments

# 21 Other Guy @ 03/31/11 04:53 PM

As mentioned, this is a problem that should be an easy fix with difficulty adjustments and sliders. Players who want a real NFL experience should only get 2 to 3 seconds to throw, while players who aren't that good (younger players) should be able to lower the difficulty and get more time to operate in the pocket.

# 22 kc10785 @ 03/31/11 05:08 PM

Point blank you can't talk about o-line play until you fix the WR's route running and lead pass system. That has to be fix to counter the the realistic pass rush. It takes to long for Wr's to get off the line what's the point of going through your reads if you reach 4 secs in the pocket and none of your Wr finish there route.

# 23 slideez @ 03/31/11 05:08 PM

The DL animations in 2k8 are long and the QB drops are too quick and but the time the DL's are able to disengage from the OL the the WR has completed his route and the ball has left the QB's hand....so things arent tuned to make the DL average...longer animations make it harder for proper DL play in APF....they just went a little to overboard in trying to portray the skill in of DL's in football.....but try to run 3 step slant routes in the game with pass blocking OL's in that game the a Gold DT will be on you in less than a sec.

# 24 RGiles36 @ 03/31/11 05:15 PM

I'm surprised so many are rather dismissive of this article...I think there are some valid points made.

I think back no further to when NCAA 11 was out and the Madden 11 demo debuted. The locomotion in Madden was tuned to be tighter, heavier, and more realistic than that of NCAAs. But in a shock to me, people favored the looser NCAA locomotion. I'm not sure how they compare today after several patches, but my point is not to dismiss this article as if to say people want ALL realism ALL the time.

# 25 Steven123 @ 03/31/11 05:16 PM

NFL 2k5's lineplay was top notch with the line interaction, momentum, and the formation of a actual pocket. Will we get "real" line play from football games? I don't know but at least make it LOOK realistic. Suction blocking shouldnt be a answer.

# 26 lasthour @ 03/31/11 05:19 PM

Find a balance in gameplay that separate teams. Keep everything simple, yet, add depth.

It is time for this game to use its resources for serious improvements and to stop with the minor, minor changes.

No more useless stats, no more gimmicks, please. No more yearly full priced updates, please.

And. A game can be a little. I said a little, over the top and still produce a GREAT game. Scrap the stale emotionless engine.

Don't just compete against football games(0) compete against the ENTIRE INDUSTRY.(top5games)

Get some swag baby!

# 27 khaliib @ 03/31/11 05:26 PM

I hope the OP does not take this the wrong way, but this is a really bad, bad misinterpretation of what the gaming community defines as Realistic.

I know numbers and math is part of building a game, but we see evertime when such a method is thrown out in postings to justify a thought, it ALWAYS seem to point to a Gamer's dissatifaction of what's being played out before their eyes. Why, because video games are about "Perception" and the spectrum is so Broad from one gamer to the next of what looks real, expecially with the sport of football.

Example:
We see this agrument of numbers as it relates to 40 yrd times of a player draw constant debates and arguments year after year for football. What makes the water more murky, is the playout of the Dev's ratings formulas to create a differentiation in movement on the Game Engine they are applied to. The application of defining Speed in this instince is the easy part because the formula is given. Where this application seems to fall apart year after year is that there is no formula for Perception.

Gamers are not using the term "Realistic" as it pertains to Absolute definitions, that's impossible to recreate.
But the term "Realistic" is used to define the Overall Ecstatic football experience as they play out a DREAM.
That's right, a Dream.
When we are playing sports video games, we are simply playing out a Dream of "I would do this in this situation".
The problem is that there are not enough Situations produced for any given movement in today's football games. Thus, we pick up on the looping situation/movement much easier and pick it apart because our Peception is being limited.
No one wants Guardrails placed on them while playing out their Dream (ie Peception).

The power that Video situations has unlike Real life situations, is that it can be tweaked so that the End User can be immersed much more.
Football GM's, Coach' s and players use it all the time when they watch Film (video).
The difference is that in real life, a particular situation can only be expanded through verbalizating (linking) alternatives to that situation.

ie "if the Tackle does this, use a rip move, or if he does that, use a spin etc...
In a Video Game, those verbalizations can actually be injected on that one situation, giving the Perception that something different is happening, which in turn immerses the Gamer as they play.

Simply put, that 3 sec can be stretched with Video Games and still provide an immersive experience with multiple outcomes available to any one given situation.
Today's games probably have less than 3 alternatives to a given situation, which is why it doesn't look like what we see on TV.

It's all about immersion into the Gamer's Perception which requires multiple outcomes during any one situation.
Otherwise, the outcome to each situation is looped and predetermined, which is not Real.

This is were Line Play (gameplay for that matter) is suffering in football video games.

***I must state that numbers can be deceptive if used out to context.
If you take every snap Freeney played throughout the season, that AVG rush time would be much,much higher.
That is not his norm time for every snap he played.

# 28 jyoung @ 03/31/11 05:27 PM

In APF 2K8, none of the 3-step drops work very well, but the 5-step drops buy you tons of time compared to how fast the routes are run in the game (much faster than Madden).

I have had online games of APF 2K8 where guys pass the ball 40 - 50 times on me and I only get 1 to 2 sacks, despite the fact that I have multiple gold and silver defensive linemen going against their generic OL.

If you look at the ratings of generic OL in APF 2K8, they are basically the equivalent of a backup OL in NFL 2K5, with the exception of APF 2K8's OL having jacked up stamina:

Quote:

Originally Posted by NFL 2K5


	Titans backup offensive tackle - Jason Matthews (49 overall) 53 pass block 63 run block 57 strength 54 speed 68 agility 58 stamina

Quote:

Originally Posted by APF 2K8


	Generic "pass block" offensive tackle 60 pass block 50 run block 60 strength 40 speed 45 agility 90 stamina

Here's a comparison of an elite NFL 2K5 DE to a gold DE in APF 2K8:

Quote:

Originally Posted by NFL 2K5


	Eagles DE Jevon Kearse (91 overall) 93 pass rush 86 run coverage 81 tackle 67 strength 88 speed 71 agility 70 stamina

Quote:

Originally Posted by APF 2K8


	CAP gold DE 90 pass rush 85 run coverage 88 tackle 78 strength 70 speed 70 agility 70 stamina

However, these numbers don't take into account that generic OL in APF 2K8 also get their ratings boosted by leadership, in addition to having a huge stamina advantage.

We still don't know what affect leadership has on the generics' ratings.

# 29 turftickler @ 03/31/11 05:28 PM

People can't handle Backbreaker because it's too realistic. Problem solved

lol

# 30 ipman @ 03/31/11 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d11king


	I'm not sure how I feel about this article, but I do love it and it makes sense, I just hate the fact the video games have to dumb down certain things for the 'casual users' for example, the QB Vision. IMO the QB vision was the greatest 'feature' or whatever you call it Madden ever implemented. It was realistic and fun, on offense, if I have a player like Michael Vick my vision isn't going to be like Tom Brady's so I just can't magically throw an on-point pass to a wide receiver I'm not even looking at. And defensively, corners and safety's, more so safety's are watching the QB's eyes on defense, which is what the user would have been doing had this still been in effect. But Madden doesn't want realism in there game, this plays like the NFL version of NBA Jam and 'some' simulation so the 9-15 year olds enjoy it. So I agree that this would never make it into Madden, but until they make vast improvements, they've lost one customer and I'm sure they dont care. One person doesn't effect them, but it's quite a shame that Madden 2011 feels like Madden 2005 with updated rosters and jerseys and 2 new features.

Poor excuse real football should be in the game with the ability to adjust sliders just like nba2k11

# 31 slideez @ 03/31/11 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wEEman33


	In APF 2K8, none of the 3-step drops work very well, but the 5-step drops buy you tons of time compared to how fast the routes are run in the game (much faster than Madden). I have had online games of APF 2K8 where guys pass the ball 40 - 50 times on me and I only get 1 to 2 sacks, despite the fact that I have multiple gold and silver defensive linemen going against their generic OL. If you look at the ratings of generic OL in APF 2K8, they are basically the equivalent of a backup OL in NFL 2K5, with the exception of APF 2K8's OL having jacked up stamina: Here's a comparison of an elite NFL 2K5 DE to a gold DE in APF 2K8: However, these numbers don't take into account that generic OL in APF 2K8 also get their ratings boosted by leadership, in addition to having a huge stamina advantage. We still don't know what affect leadership has on the generics' ratings.

i just said that

# 32 bigsmallwood @ 03/31/11 05:33 PM

Realistic line play has existed and succeeded in NFL Football games...it just hasn't worked in Madden yet (without sliders) .

# 33 catcatch22 @ 03/31/11 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wEEman33


	In APF 2K8, none of the 3-step drops work very well, but the 5-step drops buy you tons of time compared to how fast the routes are run in the game (much faster than Madden). I have had online games of APF 2K8 where guys pass the ball 40 - 50 times on me and I only get 1 to 2 sacks, despite the fact that I have multiple gold and silver defensive linemen going against their generic OL. If you look at the ratings of generic OL in APF 2K8, they are basically the equivalent of a backup OL in NFL 2K5, with the exception of APF 2K8's OL having jacked up stamina: Here's a comparison of an elite NFL 2K5 DE to a gold DE in APF 2K8: However, these numbers don't take into account that generic OL in APF 2K8 also get their ratings boosted by leadership, in addition to having a huge stamina advantage. We still don't know what affect leadership has on the generics' ratings.

You also neglected speed, the speed rushers in 2k8 football are deadly cause they get their pass rush animation moves sped up thus eliminating the long animations. So not only do they lack stamina like I said earlier but they don't have enough game speed to quickly speed through a block.

# 34 D-Hiatus @ 03/31/11 05:49 PM

Good point made bruh....preciate the breakdown as well. This should help with a lot of gamers mis-understanding of the game....good read!

# 35 jyoung @ 03/31/11 05:51 PM

Yes, I was going back through NFL 2K5 and looking at DEs like Simeon Rice, Dwight Freeney, and Michael Strahan who are rated 90+ overall, and their speed ratings are all in the high 80s.

The CAP DE speed ratings in APF 2K8 are:

Quote:


	Gold DE 70 speed 70 agility

Quote:


	Silver DE 65 speed 65 agility

Quote:


	Bronze DE 60 speed 60 agility

Sure, you can give them the "quick feet" and "speed burner" abilities, but that only boosts each category 5 points, so APF 2K8's DEs are still real slow compared to NFL 2K5.

# 36 kmart2180 @ 03/31/11 06:00 PM

I love the O-line play in Ncaa 11. Madden just needs to follow and improve on it.

# 37 Pokes404 @ 03/31/11 06:19 PM

I think a lot of people would have been OK with Backbreaker's pre-patch pass rush if it weren't for the "lock-on" mechanic used in the passing game. They should have had icons above each receiver (like in most football games) and had the right stick move the camera back and forth. This way, you still get the realistic view, but you would have been able to scan the field and immediately get the ball out to a receiver (that was within your view) without first having to lock on to the guy and then start your throw. That extra .5 second or so often times meant the difference between a completion and a sack.

Also, this system didn't allow you to look down the middle of the field and read what the LBs and safeties were doing. Even if you looked at the TE, you really could only see the left or right half of the field. There were many times I would have liked to look down the middle of the field, see how the safeties rolled, where the blitz was coming from, etc. and then decide which side of the field I wanted to go to.

# 38 catcatch22 @ 03/31/11 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wEEman33


	Yes, I was going back through NFL 2K5 and looking at DEs like Simeon Rice, Dwight Freeney, and Michael Strahan who are rated 90+ overall, and their speed ratings are all in the high 80s. The CAP DE speed ratings in APF 2K8 are: Sure, you can give them the "quick feet" and "speed burner" abilities, but that only boosts each category 5 points, so APF 2K8's DEs are still real slow compared to NFL 2K5.

I have to disagree there to an extent cause the speed burners in 2k football get some hidden super speed burst higher than the +5. Don't know what it is but I have seen dlineman with speed burner chase down guys they had no business running down.

# 39 blkrptnt819 @ 03/31/11 06:38 PM

The problem is that user good OL don't hold pressure from bad DL and user good DL don't get pressure on bad OL

# 40 spit_bubble @ 03/31/11 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiquorLogic


	I don't agree with this at all. First, difficulty levels can handle this problem perfectly. Neuter the pass rush for the lower difficultly levels, and for the highest difficulty levels, make the pass-rush realistic. That way, the CPU wouldn't have to cheat to make the game difficult at the All-madden level. The game will be difficult enough with only 1-3 seconds to get rid of the football...

Exactly what I was thinking, and it's another reason why MLB The Show is the gold standard of sports video games at the moment. In that game you can make it realistic if you want, or at least very close to real, without it feeling cheap. It's not very fun that way, and probably not a lot of people go that route, but at least it can be done.

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