Werewolf XXXVII: Middle-Earth - GAME ENDS. Who Won? Check it out!

[Alan T]

No that is, and always shall be, my official title. :)

Sorry bud, you ruined it here with clutch bodyguard work :)

[DaddyTorgo]

DT, did you kill me because you knew I would check your statement for truth the following day?

yeah. i was hoping you wouldn't get a chance to check it fore you kicked off.

[Abe Sargent]

DT, did you kill me because you knew I would check your statement for truth the following day?

I thought this was either inspired or lucky. I never told him this, but his amulet would not have worked against your soothsaying powers. I like, in all of my games, for there to be checks. I don't like introducing something that somebody doesn't have a silver bullet for.

In this case, the amulet specifically said that it allowed you to scn as a faction and affiliation. Your roles does not check that. The two dark seers and LSG did, but you did not. Therefore, your sooth powers would not have been affected by the Amulet.

[Alan T]

Oneiromancer - one who divines or reads meanings into dreams.


If that doesn't scream, I'm the seer....


:)



-Anxiety

Well thats the catch.. none of us were familiar with the term.. so doing research we found where in many games an Oneiromancer is one who performs mind control action on others.

That was what slowed us down for a while midgame.. we really went back and forth on who the real seer was in our private conversations. I think most of the time we felt THomkal was either lying or was the world's worst seer though. I think we gave LSG the benefit of the doubt alot more than she probably felt we did. We were a bit untrusting of her in public but alot of that we were hoping at least for a few days the bad guys would leave her be in case of keeping their own guy alive that much longer. We didn't have a good grasp on about 8 or so people then so having the seer a little longer was important to us.

There were a few times that LSG made a move that left us scratching our heads and doubt her again, but in the end the big thing for us was i knew that she knew izulde and I were rangers.. and the fact neither of us had been killed while she knew that information left us feeling she most likely was good. Alot of what we said about distrust on her and trust on thomkal was somewhat smokescreens and a small part wanting to be absolutely sure before making a move there.

That is what I was hinting at last night when I said we felt LSG was good based on the hint she dropped. It didnt make any sense for her to be bad and Izulde and I still be alive. She knew my role reveal was entirely made up and BS and didnt go on it at all.

[Abe Sargent]

I created all but four of these characters, and I felt like crying when I did the write up for the triple kill night. That was my best prose section in the game, for my money.

[DaddyTorgo]

i sort of divined that it wouldn't work, as you said scrying, and soothsaying is different from scrying.

i was hoping he wouldn't get the chance to check it before he died.

aaargh, i was pretty much back-against-the-wall there at the end hmm? a whole bunch of rangers and me+ntn+weds+lsg were the only ones not communicating with each other hmm? don't see how i could have gotten out of that.

[Alan T]

I created all but four of these characters, and I felt like crying when I did the write up for the triple kill night. That was my best prose section in the game, for my money.

Poor saldana, can't ever buy a break!

[Schmidty]

Sorry bud, you ruined it here with clutch bodyguard work :)

Pure guesswork, man.

I was 99% sure that LSG wouldn't get attacked again, since it was "obvious" that I'd be defending her, so there was no way I was going to actually protect her.

Toward the very end, I was not-so-subtley begging people to give me a reason to protect them, while at the same time hoping that they wouldn't make it sound TOO obvious. Tyrith's post delivered, and that's really what won us the game.

I'm just happy to have helped at all.

[Alan T]

i sort of divined that it wouldn't work, as you said scrying, and soothsaying is different from scrying.

i was hoping he wouldn't get the chance to check it before he died.

aaargh, i was pretty much back-against-the-wall there at the end hmm? a whole bunch of rangers and me+ntn+weds+lsg were the only ones not communicating with each other hmm? don't see how i could have gotten out of that.

Well I wonder who LSG sent in to scan.. if LSG scanned ntn, and he turned up good, we would have probably gone after you or mr.W not sure which way the wind would go with that.

If LSG scanned you, it would have set us back a bit for sure and possibly gotten LSG killed along the way.. I knew for sure that you three is where the bad guys were hiding.. I just assumed more than 1 left is all.

[Schmidty]

Thanks SO much for an amazing game, Abe. You were absolutely great as a GM. I hope I didn't disgrace your favorite role too much.

I am totally in your next game. :)

[DaddyTorgo]

that triple-kill was pure luck, but man did it give me a big boost of confidence. and FWIW I think that was the best write-up of the game Anxiety, although I couldn't gush over it too much then.

[Alan T]

Oh and just for the record.. there was a big discussion about using the Ranger night kill ability to off LSG before she did her role reveal. We came to our senses about that though and didnt follow through. That could have really wrecked the game for us :) I had alot of fun playing with Gramm and Izulde on this though. Was fun trading ideas on them, and the best moment was the excitement Gramm showed when he figured out Tyrith was our lost ranger.

Even though we wanted to disown Tyrith after his premature reveal. We were trying to dangle Tyrith as bait to get someone to bite on.. but no one ever did.

[Alan T]

Thanks SO much for an amazing game, Abe. You were absolutely great as a GM. I hope I didn't disgrace your favorite role too much.

I am totally in your next game. :)

I enjoyed the game alot as well. Thanks for running it for us anxiety :)

[Abe Sargent]

i sort of divined that it wouldn't work, as you said scrying, and soothsaying is different from scrying.

i was hoping he wouldn't get the chance to check it before he died.

aaargh, i was pretty much back-against-the-wall there at the end hmm? a whole bunch of rangers and me+ntn+weds+lsg were the only ones not communicating with each other hmm? don't see how i could have gotten out of that.

With some difficulty, but I was rotting for ya after Thomkal died!

Night 8 - NK a ranger
Day 9 - Lynch Mr. W, LSG clears ntndeacon
Night 9 - You are cleared by LSG, NK a ranger
Day 10 - Lynch? LSG probably
Night 10 - Kill a Ranger

Current number of people - 0 Rangers, 1 Sauron, 1 Schmidty, 3 Townsfolk (or could be 1 Ranger, 1 Sauron, 1 Schmidty, 2 Townsfolk and you are still looking at the endgame)

Now you are suddenly in a position of power, and everybody is doubting everbody. Happens that if you go long, people's memories of things fade and they latch on to the new. You;d have an ability to move with strength here. Who knows if they won;t lynch Schmidity because no verified seer ever cleared him, you NK a villager or the other Ranger and its a win as you Overwhelm the remaining two villagers.

[DaddyTorgo]

If LSG scanned you, it would have set us back a bit for sure and possibly gotten LSG killed along the way.. I knew for sure that you three is where the bad guys were hiding.. I just assumed more than 1 left is all.

that's what i was hoping. i didn't think you had that many rangers left TBH. I figured 2 more, not 4 of you. I think evil was really set back by Brian being converted to Saruman instead of us Sauron guys being able to convert people to OUR side and get more night action going on. It really put me behind the 8 ball because I had NO conversion ability, just kill or torture.

[Swaggs]

I really thought we were heading for a loss until I woke up on (I think) Day 5 and Alan listed a near identical set of players as those that I had checked from Thomkal's statement.

I had been fishing so hard for the first few days to get anyone to just come out and say they were on the side of light. I couldn't find one statement worthy of using from Day 1, which sucked, because I lost a day there. Finally, Lathum said something on day 2.

[Schmidty]

i sort of divined that it wouldn't work, as you said scrying, and soothsaying is different from scrying.

i was hoping he wouldn't get the chance to check it before he died.

aaargh, i was pretty much back-against-the-wall there at the end hmm? a whole bunch of rangers and me+ntn+weds+lsg were the only ones not communicating with each other hmm? don't see how i could have gotten out of that.

I never communicated with anyone in the game. At all.

[Izulde]

Yeah this was an awesome game, Abe. I don't think I can go back to simple games now. :D

In fact, I want to take a turn in the GM list now. :)

[Abe Sargent]

NP guys. I loved how Tyrith outed himself to the Rangers when he revealed his real name. I was wondering if that would happen when I wrote the roles.

[Alan T]

that's what i was hoping. i didn't think you had that many rangers left TBH. I figured 2 more, not 4 of you. I think evil was really set back by Brian being converted to Saruman instead of us Sauron guys being able to convert people to OUR side and get more night action going on. It really put me behind the 8 ball because I had NO conversion ability, just kill or torture.

Yeah.. we sat back most of the game trying to protect the numbers and be the base of a CoT.

That reminds me though.. what happened the night i was attacked.. why did it fail, or what exactly happened?

[DaddyTorgo]

With some difficulty, but I was rotting for ya after Thomkal died!

Night 8 - NK a ranger
Day 9 - Lynch Mr. W, LSG clears ntndeacon
Night 9 - You are cleared by LSG, NK a ranger
Day 10 - Lynch? LSG probably
Night 10 - Kill a Ranger

Current number of people - 0 Rangers, 1 Sauron, 1 Schmidty, 3 Townsfolk (or could be 1 Ranger, 1 Sauron, 1 Schmidty, 2 Townsfolk and you are still looking at the endgame)

Now you are suddenly in a position of power, and everybody is doubting everbody. Happens that if you go long, people's memories of things fade and they latch on to the new. You;d have an ability to move with strength here. Who knows if they won;t lynch Schmidity because no verified seer ever cleared him, you NK a villager or the other Ranger and its a win as you Overwhelm the remaining two villagers.

yeah. but being this was my first game as evil and up against several strong WWers I doubted that I could have made that work. But that would be the general idea, yeah.

lil help clearing me by LSG would have been amazingly helpful, but alas I didn't get that help!

[Izulde]

Oh and just for the record.. there was a big discussion about using the Ranger night kill ability to off LSG before she did her role reveal. We came to our senses about that though and didnt follow through. That could have really wrecked the game for us :) I had alot of fun playing with Gramm and Izulde on this though. Was fun trading ideas on them, and the best moment was the excitement Gramm showed when he figured out Tyrith was our lost ranger.

Even though we wanted to disown Tyrith after his premature reveal. We were trying to dangle Tyrith as bait to get someone to bite on.. but no one ever did.

Oh yeah, I was pushing really, really hard for me to Strike kill LSG on the night it looked like I was going to be either lynched or night-killed.

I was super sure she was Bad.

But actually I think the major distrust LSG and I had going back forth in the early to mid game helped prevent either one of us from getting night killed.

[Alan T]

NP guys. I loved how Tyrith outed himself to the Rangers when he revealed his real name. I was wondering if that would happen when I wrote the roles.

That was a big day for us.. if I remember right it was also when the seers all revealed and swaggs revealed and such.. That day just from the reveales opened things up big time for us. It let us focus on only 5 or 6 of the remaining 13 or so players really.

[Abe Sargent]

Yeah this was an awesome game, Abe. I don't think I can go back to simple games now. :D

In fact, I want to take a turn in the GM list now. :)



Excellent!!!

[Alan T]

Oh yeah, I was pushing really, really hard for me to Strike kill LSG on the night it looked like I was going to be either lynched or night-killed.

I was super sure she was Bad.

But actually I think the major distrust LSG and I had going back forth in the early to mid game helped prevent either one of us from getting night killed.

Well I wasn't going to come out and say it was you who wanted to night kill her! :) But Im glad we didnt end up doing that. :)

[DaddyTorgo]

Yeah.. we sat back most of the game trying to protect the numbers and be the base of a CoT.

That reminds me though.. what happened the night i was attacked.. why did it fail, or what exactly happened?

it wasn't me that attacked you.

i never went after anyone and failed until this night (or wait, there was a night i tried to kill schmidty but failed because he was out....grrr that would have turned the game nicely).

i never attacked you or izulde or lsg EXACTLY because I had that amulet and i was hoping the seer (once i knew it was lsg) would clear me and slip me into the CoT. And you and izulde didn't have me on the radar for so long, it benefitted me to keep you alive and going after others.

although TBH you were wearing out your welcome alan and you were prolly next on the list.

stupid stupid me...shoulda gone after you tonight, but i didn't think you were a ranger and i wanted to get that # down even more.

[Abe Sargent]

Yeah.. we sat back most of the game trying to protect the numbers and be the base of a CoT.

That reminds me though.. what happened the night i was attacked.. why did it fail, or what exactly happened?



When the Agents of Saruman try a quick kill, there is a 50/50 chance of success. If successful, just a 25% chance of discovery, when failed, 75% chance of discovery. I believe your attacker rolled a 16 on a d20 and just barely made their evasive roll. I alluded to their just barely making it out in the prose.

[Swaggs]

This game was strange because both Spleen and Tyrith made full reveals, both of which ended up being 100% true, at odd times. Both of those (obviously Spleen's, especially) really threw me, because neither seemed to be on the chopping block at the time.

Good game, Abe. A lot of interesting roles.

[Abe Sargent]

it wasn't me that attacked you.

i never went after anyone and failed until this night (or wait, there was a night i tried to kill schmidty but failed because he was out....grrr that would have turned the game nicely).

i never attacked you or izulde or lsg EXACTLY because I had that amulet and i was hoping the seer (once i knew it was lsg) would clear me and slip me into the CoT. And you and izulde didn't have me on the radar for so long, it benefitted me to keep you alive and going after others.

although TBH you were wearing out your welcome alan and you were prolly next on the list.

stupid stupid me...shoulda gone after you tonight, but i didn't think you were a ranger and i wanted to get that # down even more.



Actailly, you tried to Torture Schmidty. There was a night he forgot to turn in a night action. That would have been a good time to have killed/tortured him.

I really wanted one toture from you, maybe on a Ranger to out their whole team. I would have LOVED to have written up that a person was kidnapped durign the night and you can;t find him!

-Anxiety

[Fouts]

I got nothing out of this game. Sounds like some others had fun though. :(

[DaddyTorgo]

Actailly, you tried to Torture Schmidty. There was a night he forgot to turn in a night action. That would have been a good time to have killed/tortured him.

I really wanted one toture from you, maybe on a Ranger to out their whole team. I would have LOVED to have written up that a person was kidnapped durign the night and you can;t find him!

-Anxiety

brian and i had talked about doing tortures, and actually i was eyeing alan for a torture at one point. but once it got down to just me all by myself i didn't feel that that was a wise investment of my time, figured i needed to keep bringing the #'s down...

[DaddyTorgo]

I got nothing out of this game. Sounds like some others had fun though. :(

sorry fouts. you were a victim of our "nail a strong vet early" strategy

[Fouts]

sorry fouts. you were a victim of our "nail a strong vet early" strategy

Wrong choice. Alan is the strong vet. --->>

[DaddyTorgo]

Wrong choice. Alan is the strong vet. --->>

but he was also vocal and off on wild-goose chases. a good combination

[Schmidty]

Actailly, you tried to Torture Schmidty. There was a night he forgot to turn in a night action. That would have been a good time to have killed/tortured him.

Yeah, that still makes me mad. It was like night 2. My first WW game in awhile, and I screwed up the deadlines. :o

[DaddyTorgo]

Yeah, that still makes me mad. It was like night 2. My first WW game in awhile, and I screwed up the deadlines. :o

you're right. i did try to torture schmidty. that was right after people were like "schmidty has an important role." course i wouldn't have gotten much out of anyone on night 2, was hoping he was a ranger though and would out the others...

[Lorena]

Okay, I'll check back in a few to see if you had any other questions.


I LOVED hosting this game and you guys were great. It was a grteat game from a pm and public perspective, and I wanted to thank each of the original 25 plus DC for stepping in there early.

-Abe

No problem at all!! It was SOO much fun and a pleasure :). I'm lucky I got the vanilla villager role... who knows what would have happened if I remained in the game (before my kid got sick) with Thomkal's role ;)

DaddyTorgo you bastage, I never, ever suspected you... good job staying alive for this long.

[Alan T]

but he was also vocal and off on wild-goose chases. a good combination

I don't think my early suspicions were too too bad. If I remember right the people I highly suspected were BrianD, Mr.W, DaddyTorgo and Tyrith early on.

I was wrong on Tyrith and Mr.W but right on the other two. The middle part of the game was about trying to keep Izulde alive without giving too much away when he was on the voting hotseat. I said I didnt want Izulde or LSG on the lynch for that day so just picked the quietest people as substitutes (being Ntn).

The only vote I really pushed early was the Chief Rum one and was just going on a hunch there. oh well :)

[Abe Sargent]

I got nothing out of this game. Sounds like some others had fun though. :(

Heya Imelda! I based your character on Ioreth, from LoTR if that makes ya feel better.

[Grammaticus]

Oneiromancer - one who divines or reads meanings into dreams.


If that doesn't scream, I'm the seer....


:)



-Anxiety

The description sounded sinister and LSG's play came off as bad guyish. Especially when the threatened to out AlanT. I thought she was a seer, seeing through dreams, but could have just as easily been the bad seer. AlanT thought the role might mean she was a "mind slug" with the possibility of controlling people through dreams. Seems like we settled on seer and decided to get as much info from both to use once one was confirmed.

Seemed to work well.

[Fouts]

Heya Imelda! I based your character on Ioreth, from LoTR if that makes ya feel better.

You shoulda told me my chance of reviving someone was 0.001% ;)

[DaddyTorgo]

I don't think my early suspicions were too too bad. If I remember right the people I highly suspected were BrianD, Mr.W, DaddyTorgo and Tyrith early on.

I was wrong on Tyrith and Mr.W but right on the other two. The middle part of the game was about trying to keep Izulde alive without giving too much away when he was on the voting hotseat. I said I didnt want Izulde or LSG on the lynch for that day so just picked the quietest people as substitutes (being Ntn).

The only vote I really pushed early was the Chief Rum one and was just going on a hunch there. oh well :)

well let me amend that. you weren't publicly pushing for me so it was to my benefit to keep you alive i felt. had i known you were a ranger you would have been dead long ago

[Alan T]

Hehe, well heading to bed. got to get up in 3 1/2 hours for my flight. I should have been to bed long ago, just the end game is my favorite part.. hearing what everyone's master plans were and what happened behind the scenes for everyone. :)

[Abe Sargent]

You shoulda told me my chance of reviving someone was 0.001% ;)

Oh, you want the numbers? Your chance of revival, remembering it was automatic, was 15%, with 30% for reviving yourself. You failed poorly (I think your rolled in the 80s or something)


-Anxiety

[DaddyTorgo]

i dunno what the heck the saruman force was doing all the time, but i felt like from day 2 i was pretty much playing "lone wolf" as we all figured out early on they didn't have much of a chance of night-killing anyone

[Fouts]

Oh, you want the numbers? Your chance of revival, remembering it was automatic, was 15%, with 30% for reviving yourself. You failed poorly (I think your rolled in the 80s or something)


-Anxiety

Boo. I hate the darkness. Could have been great seeing somebody pop back up in the game.

[DaddyTorgo]

oh and sorry DC.

fwiw i did have a twinge of regret when i sent in that night action.

[Abe Sargent]

Anotehr scene I would have lvoed to have written was if SnDvls converted to good during a night foray. I waould have had him captured by teh Barrow Wights deep inteh downs and tehn rescused by some guy named Tom Bombadil....

And the funny part here would be that SnDvls would have no clue what was going on since he's not familiar with teh source material.

[Abe Sargent]

Wow, hello bad seplling. This is what happens when I syat up oast my bestiem. Bad typing rsults.

-Anxiety

[DaddyTorgo]

Anotehr scene I would have lvoed to have written was if SnDvls converted to good during a night foray. I waould have had him captured by teh Barrow Wights deep inteh downs and tehn rescused by some guy named Tom Bombadil....

And the funny part here would be that SnDvls would have no clue what was going on since he's not familiar with teh source material.

that woulda been awesome

[Abe Sargent]

You guys were an island of calm amondst my amazingly tough day today. Thatnks. With that, I'm about to retires and I'll log back on tomorrow and check out the thread to see if there are other questions I can snwer.

[Fouts]

Thanks for hosting. I did enjoy the writeups and depth each of the roles had.

[Grammaticus]

yeah. but being this was my first game as evil and up against several strong WWers I doubted that I could have made that work. But that would be the general idea, yeah.

lil help clearing me by LSG would have been amazingly helpful, but alas I didn't get that help!

I thought it was very odd that you kept asking LSG to scan you going into the last night. I think you asked like three times and you were not even really in line for serious heat. I just thought it meant you were probably bad, not that you had a special power going on. Of course I was dead at that point, so I was hoping the live rangers would consider that suspicious too.

[Abe Sargent]

that woulda been awesome

Yeah, one of the thing sI like to do when I host WW is to plan out the prose side of things ahead of time. How do I justify the game flavor-wise? How do I get a bodyguard in Bree in flavor? A beroning. I want the basic flavor of the pople already down. LSG had to focus every night on a diferent thing in her room in order to concentrate. Saruman agents hummed to use sorcery. The cool Sauman night kill was a mixture of foul herbs, fouler sorcery and good ol stealth, the use of weather and sun/moon/fog as metaphor for the game, etc.

Then, sometimes, I justify roels based on flavor. I have to use teh Barrow Downs that are righ next door, so I need a role that will use it. Hence the adventurer.

[Grammaticus]

That was a big day for us.. if I remember right it was also when the seers all revealed and swaggs revealed and such.. That day just from the reveales opened things up big time for us. It let us focus on only 5 or 6 of the remaining 13 or so players really.

Then the very next day Tyrith outed himself and me as rangers and things were not looking quite as good :mad: I was almost shocked the bad guys did not kill the real seer (LSG) or one of the two outed rangers that night. That was the time the bodyguard would have had the most critical targets to decide of which to guard.

BTW, who did you guard on that night Schmidty?

[Grammaticus]

Well I wasn't going to come out and say it was you who wanted to night kill her! :) But Im glad we didnt end up doing that. :)

Once we clarified the rangers leave the game on a night kill mishap, we quickly scuttled that idea and stuck to scouting. If we would have had a little better feel about LSG, I bet we might have considered night killing ThomKal after she outed him. But, I think we felt like we were doing good and just had too much to lose with a high risk night kill.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Anxiety, what was the method of resolving a conflict between the bad factions over who won -- would it have been who had more people, or would there have been more involved?

LSG, sorry for doubting you.

I think I was the only one who voted for DaddyTorgo on the last day. :)

[Mr. Wednesday]

@Blade in re my role, I told you so.

[DaddyTorgo]

yeah, you were onto me twice weren't you Weds? and no one would support you? despite alan saying that they were suspicious of me? sounds fishy

[Lorena]

So umm... when's the next game? ;)

[Blade6119]

@Blade in re my role, I told you so.
Not sure i follow? Told me so that you were good, or that DT was bad?

Either way, I TOLD YOU SO about thomkal, who you saved :p

I was dead on with thomkal and sublime, and dead wrong about Alan and izulde. Ill take it

[Mr. Wednesday]

Right about Thomkal himself, yes, although I don't believe I was arguing that point with you. Ultimately, though, we did just fine leaving him alive for a while... one wonders whether killing him quickly and confirming he was on Saruman's side would have triggered a run on the people that he (correctly) identified as good.

I wouldn't take being dead wrong about Alan and Izulde, personally, considering they weren't merely good guys but Rangers.

Oh, I'd also like to point out to whoever doubted me (Alan, I think) that I was right about the dark adept. :)

[Alan T]

Right about Thomkal himself, yes, although I don't believe I was arguing that point with you. Ultimately, though, we did just fine leaving him alive for a while... one wonders whether killing him quickly and confirming he was on Saruman's side would have triggered a run on the people that he (correctly) identified as good.

I wouldn't take being dead wrong about Alan and Izulde, personally, considering they weren't merely good guys but Rangers.

Oh, I'd also like to point out to whoever doubted me (Alan, I think) that I was right about the dark adept. :)

That seemed to be the biggest debated issue from this game .. the entire talk about keeping both of the seers alive, even when most people stopped believing that Thomkal had any shot of being the seer. In most games when you have a seer vs seer reveal, one dies then the other dies either the next lynch or next night and thats it. You then dissect what they told you and often go on wild goose chases thanks to them feeding you faulty info.

This game since we had such a huge good person voting block in a CoT mid-game and a way to at least validate some of the information received we just didn't want to go down that path. At the time that THomkal was saved from the lynch all we really knew about was ourselves, Jonathan, and a little info about Swaggs and DaddyTorgo. By keeping him alive we were able to clear swaggs, take Mr.W and Schmidty off of the table at least for a bit LSG likely stayed alive much longer than normally would which led to finding out about BrianD and ultimately clearing Schmidty.

The day we finally lynched Thomkal, Tyrith and I had a long discussion about the pros and cons of it at that point, and we measured out each side. We assumed there was 1 Saruman person left (Likely thomkal) and 2-3 Sauron guys. We saw these as the scenerios:

Thomkal was lying, he was a member of Saruman, and the 2-3 Sauron members were among Mr.W, ntn, DaddyTorgo or remote chance of LSG even though that was unlikely due to her already knowing who the rangers were (and we knew that she knew).

Thomkal was telling the truth, then we would be looking for 3-4 bad guys most likely among LSG, Ntn, DaddyTorgo and we just couldn't figure out a likely 4th person. This scenerio was very unlikely to us and in both scenerios both Ntn and DaddyTorgo were likely bad. (Even though we didn't run it for only one bad guy left after thomkal).

So we decided at that point it didn't matter who we lynched as long as it was one of that select group. If we lynched thomkal and he ended up good, we would have sent izulde to night kill Lonestargirl like he wanted to earlier in the game :) Either way at that point we felt like we had things in hand and my only concern was that either Jonathan or Tyrith could have been converted. We just didn't realize how close to victory we actually were.

[Thomkal]

Interesting - BrianD recommended not to disrupt or kill LSG ont eh night she scanned him, thinking that DT would. DT ended up offing DC choosing to stay far away from revealed seers. If the agents of Saruman has disrupted LSG and preevnted the Brain scan, or just killed LSG (Schmidty was elsehwere that night) BrainD is never outed and teh fall of Saruman's agenst is delayed for a while.

Actually we did discuss blocking her that night, and nearly did so if I remember correctly. Which made the next morning one of the first bits of pain in a very painful week. :)

[Thomkal]

Yeah.. we sat back most of the game trying to protect the numbers and be the base of a CoT.

That reminds me though.. what happened the night i was attacked.. why did it fail, or what exactly happened?

We used our quick death power on you Alan. You were leading the discussions as you normally do, and we wanted to disrupt that. Quick death were as Anxiety described them, an "emergency kill". So we knew from the description there was a chance of failure and/or being spotted, but we had no percentages and no way to know for sure how risky it was for us to use it. We failed the die roll. Sublime got the description of the attack, not me, since he did it, so he might be able to tell you more. Just another disastrous moment for the Agents of Saruman.

[Thomkal]

Okay all caught up now.

First off, yeah I guess I lied a little bit more in my parting message there. :) I was just trying to create as much doubt as I could in people's minds before I left the game.

Second, congrats to the good guys!

Third, thanks very much to Anxiety for a great game! The role descriptions, power descriptions, death scenes, and night actions PM's were wonderful. One question about my seer (woman's intuition, ha!) power though. Was that just flavor about how I felt I was getting stronger doing them, but then getting weaker afterwards?

Fourth, I was a horrible wolf. I had never been a wolf before, so had never really been in the mindset. Then poor Sublime in his first game got me to partner with. Sorry about that Sub. But you did great once I got you to open up more. :) Thanks to Brian when he came along for some good veteran advice.

Fifth, Curse those darned die rolls! It was just a disaster for us with the kills, missing out on Alan and LSG, and then getting Brian and Sublime outed.

Sixth, Yeah I might have been a bad wolf, but I was darned good at figuring out who the other evils were. I got Brian on Night 1 with my scan so I was psyched! But what's this about him trying to kill me the night I converted him? As for Daddy Torgo, he was actually at the top of my list to scan after people reacting to things after the lynch on either night 2 or 3. And then events caused me to need to view other people-like Schmidty, and he kept getting pushed back on the list and back some more...to the point he was the only one I had not scanned, or figured I knew their alignment at game's end. I could have single-handedly wiped out the sauron faction by day 4 without any bloodshed. Argh. And I almost did a dark conversion of Daddy at the end there because I had run out of targets for potential evils.

Seventh, So Ntndeacon be comforted, you were scanned. :) And I purposedly kept it to myself because I had to give LSG some people to scan and targets for the rest of you to kill off. And you were a key factor in my last second seer reveal. The three people who were voting for you at the time, were all people either I, or Brian's old team, knew were good. So I think (or at least hope) that kept Jonathan, Mr. W, and Schmidty somewhat unsure of me.

Eighth, Another fun fact. The night we killed Blade, I had actually submitted a quick death action on Schmidty. I'm still cursing myself for using the silent death the day before-we couldn't use it for three more days. In the time in between my sending the action in, Schmidty had posted that he had protection against night kills again. We just felt it too risky to go after him with our lesser kill. So we went after blade instead, saving me from having to defend myself from his 23 pages of accusations against me. :) I really thought I would be lynched that next day...and the next...and the next. I was just hoping against hope to sway people or at least create a lot of confusion. Then LSG outed me. *sigh*

Ninth, we held on to our kills for the first couple days because we felt it was too risky to use the quick kill until we had a good target and alibi ready, and waiting to use the silent kill on a priority target. So we disrupted cronin's actions on night 1, and then got the dark conversion of Brian on night 2. Then we used silent death on Lathum, after debating using the quick death on him instead.

Tenth, a tip of the hat to the remaining goods, especially LSG, Schmidty, and Alan for their actions over the last few days. And DaddyTorgo too I guess, even though you didn't go after LSG the night we expected you too, causing us to have to go after her. :)

Eleventh, Okay a couple complaints here, sorry. :) I really think we should have had one completely unblockable kill to use, just one time only. Or at least one undetectable kill. It was all over for us when the kill on Alan failed and it just snowballed from there.

Twelth, Brian's conversion in some ways hurt us more than it helped us. He could tell us nothing about his old team when I converted him. That sucked. :) Yeah it would have hurt game balance to let him reveal who was on his old team, so that was fine. But in my opinion he should have been able to tell us about the other side's powers or something that we could use to figure out his ex-teammate. And Brian might think differently, but I think not being able to say anything handicapped him somewhat in the discussions we had about who was evil. He had to watch himself to make sure he didn't hint one way or another about who he knew was evil, making it tough for him to contribute at times.

Thirteenth, I was NOT lying about my migraine or forgetting to say who my view was that night. I would never do something shady like that to protect my position in the game. Shame on you to those who thought otherwise. I just knew I wasn't going to be able to post much for much of that day, and felt I needed to tell you why.

But overall it was a fun game with just a couple minor quibbles. At least now I know how NOT to act when I'm a wolf again. :)

[Swaggs]

It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if Daddy could have somehow given Brian, after he was converted, up to the villagers for a lynch. If he had, he probably would have been in the circle of trust and could have advanced AND he would have had the orb still.

[ntndeacon]

See I told you Alan that I was good. Would I lie in a WW game :D

Great game Anxiety. It was interesting to be on the block day after day after day. never a dull moment.

[DaddyTorgo]

It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if Daddy could have somehow given Brian, after he was converted, up to the villagers for a lynch. If he had, he probably would have been in the circle of trust and could have advanced AND he would have had the orb still.

i thought about this for a long long time, but frankly Brain had stayed UTR enough that I didn't think it was possible...there wasn't that much to key on him besides a hunch and i didn't think a "hunch" play would have gotten far at that point.

[spleen1015]

This game was strange because both Spleen and Tyrith made full reveals, both of which ended up being 100% true, at odd times. Both of those (obviously Spleen's, especially) really threw me, because neither seemed to be on the chopping block at the time.

Good game, Abe. A lot of interesting roles.

I wanted to reveal to try and gain some trust with the good guys. I screwed up by getting my name wrong. I knew there was a Nob and Hob. When I typed my first message, I didn't pay attention to what I was typing. I was trying to move too quickly.

The second time I type the name wrong was the same thing.

I wasn't 100% truthful with my reveal. I had even odds that I could be found every night. I said there was no way I could get night killed because I wanted to baddies to think there was no way to kill me. I was hoping they would leave me alone.

Screwing up my name was my ultimate undoing. The sad thing is, I was killed because my name didn't match the books. I was disappointed that I had put myself in that situation. Up until that point, I had been playing all of my games really well, IMO.

Good game everyone. I'm glad to see the good guys win. I didn't do a whole lot to help win this game, but I am still 6-0 in WW. :)

LSG, I would really like it if we can put all that has happened behind us. I don't want it to keep coming up and potentially get in the way of other folks enjoying games that we play together. I apologize for my comments and hope that we can move beyond them. Just for the record, I only insulted you in the RE game. I never did in the Football Tryouts game nor this one. So, your statement that I've insulted you in every game we've played together is inaccurate.

[st.cronin]

I am thinking about using the majority lynch rule for my own game (which is coming up!)

[SnDvls]

Great game Anxiety.

congrats villagers I though for sure you all had lost it when 3 players died in one night.

Question for the baddies...why kill me?

[DaddyTorgo]

Great game Anxiety.

congrats villagers I though for sure you all had lost it when 3 players died in one night.

Question for the baddies...why kill me?

we felt you were crafty and knew you were either good or on the saruman side, so thought we'd take you out early.

[Abe Sargent]

I am thinking about using the majority lynch rule for my own game (which is coming up!)

That was one of the spins of this game, and to me, it worked really well. It also makes sense from a reality perspective. In real life, you would not kill someone because three out of 18 people voted for that person or whatnot.

Another spin I personally liked was adding the actual names and roles for every person, even if that role did nothing. I liked that from a flavor perspective and would do it again.


I am about to make a general post in the WW forum about another issue from this game, however, so check it out!


-Anxiety

[Jonathan Ezarik]

I don't care what Abe says, I'm still planning on voting for ntn tonight. :)

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Just a note to Jonathan, I already told Tyrith, but we never told you about Tyrith and never told Tyrith about you just in case of the small chance one of you two got converted along the way. We wanted a safe guard to protect the good guys from corruption on the inside. I know my PM messages to you got rather uninformative about midgame.. we just got to a point where we were working on figuring out which seer was which and trying to bring Tyrith over to our side.

There at the end the messages had me scratching my head. "No news is good news" and "Thomkal is farmer, Lonestargirl is Onieromancer". I wondered why you were telling me stuff I already knew. I figured that you guys didn't have any new info and that we were screwed. :)


There were a few times that LSG made a move that left us scratching our heads and doubt her again, but in the end the big thing for us was i knew that she knew izulde and I were rangers.. and the fact neither of us had been killed while she knew that information left us feeling she most likely was good. Alot of what we said about distrust on her and trust on thomkal was somewhat smokescreens and a small part wanting to be absolutely sure before making a move there.

I caught her dropped hints, too. That's when I figured out Izulde was a ranger (I had no idea about Gramm, though). I wanted to trust LSG because she knew who you guys were but didn't do anything about it, but so many of her actions confused me. I wasn't sure what to make of her.

[BrianD]

A couple of notes:

First, it felt like the dark teams were severe underdogs in this game. We did poorly finding rangers, but even though we were rolling early, we never got very close to winning.

Second, the names in the roles did add nice flavor, but it was a little tough to remember who was who. After the writeups I had to go to the first page to see who really had been killed.

Third, I can't believe DT never converted me back to his team. I expected to be converted back the night after I was converted the first time. Every night I kept waiting for that conversion message, but it never came.

Fourth, I may have hurt my final team a little by trying not to out my old team. Part of it was trying to play by the rules, and the other part of it was that I didn't want to give them too much information since I assumed I'd be converted off of the team. I was so convinced that they wanted to kill me off early that it took a number of days for me to finally trust my new team. It was also interesting that I alone knew how many bad guys were in the game.

Lastly, DT not killing LSG the night she scanned me was very painful. I believe we already had orders in to block her scan, but I was sure DT would kill her to put heat on Thomkal. Not wanting to waste our move, I convinced our team to go for a kill instead. I don't know if things would have been much better had we killed her, but it would have been different.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Seventh, So Ntndeacon be comforted, you were scanned. :) And I purposedly kept it to myself because I had to give LSG some people to scan and targets for the rest of you to kill off. And you were a key factor in my last second seer reveal. The three people who were voting for you at the time, were all people either I, or Brian's old team, knew were good. So I think (or at least hope) that kept Jonathan, Mr. W, and Schmidty somewhat unsure of me.

Good job, there. I was constantly torn between who to believe between you and LSG. Even though you offered me up as a sacrifice when your neck was on the line, I admired your play. I thought it was a very gutsy call and you pulled it off (at least to me). I wasn't convinced you were evil last night until you came out with your last second revelation.

Thirteenth, I was NOT lying about my migraine or forgetting to say who my view was that night. I would never do something shady like that to protect my position in the game. Shame on you to those who thought otherwise. I just knew I wasn't going to be able to post much for much of that day, and felt I needed to tell you why.

Yeah, I felt bad about that. Especially after others came on saying how when they get migraines how bad it can be. I honestly don't know jack about migraines, so I'm sorry I doubted you.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

First, it felt like the dark teams were severe underdogs in this game. We did poorly finding rangers, but even though we were rolling early, we never got very close to winning.

Funny, I felt that us good guys had no chance of winning. We seriously overestimated the number of bad guys and if we hadn't gotten lucky last night, I think evil would have had a good chance of winning (kudos to DT for that).

I wonder how the game would have played if the evil factions could have communicated like I thought. Especially since there were only four of you (five if Scoobz had lived).

[Tyrith]

Funny, I felt that us good guys had no chance of winning. We seriously overestimated the number of bad guys and if we hadn't gotten lucky last night, I think evil would have had a good chance of winning (kudos to DT for that).

I wonder how the game would have played if the evil factions could have communicated like I thought. Especially since there were only four of you (five if Scoobz had lived).

Nah, Alan and I talked through the scenarios before the Thomkal lynch and we were fine unless either you (or myself, in theory) were fine because we still had three rangers, you'd become a ranger, and if came down to it the rangers could just start murdering people at night.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Thanks to Abe for GMing this game. I had a lot of fun. The large number of players made it difficult for me to keep up with everything as a first-timer, but I really enjoyed it. I lucked out in the role I got. Being a ranger sympathizer got me in good with the rangers and I feel like they did a lot to protect me. Otherwise, I probably would have been lynched early on.

[Swaggs]

I think the fact that the Rangers would have all left if they had nightkilled an innocent was a nice touch. That would have been a serious backbreaker. Imagine the swing if they would have done that the night that three other people were killed... we could have potentially lost 7 light people in one night (1 Sauraman, 1 Sauron, 1 suicide, 1 ranger night kill, 3 rangers leaving).

[BrianD]

I think the fact that the Rangers would have all left if they had nightkilled an innocent was a nice touch. That would have been a serious backbreaker. Imagine the swing if they would have done that the night that three other people were killed... we could have potentially lost 7 light people in one night (1 Sauraman, 1 Sauron, 1 suicide, 1 ranger night kill, 3 rangers leaving).

I missed that in my initial read, but it would have been pretty powerful. Weren't the Rangers talking about almost night-killing LSG? That could have ended the game in favor of the dark side.

[Alan T]

I missed that in my initial read, but it would have been pretty powerful. Weren't the Rangers talking about almost night-killing LSG? That could have ended the game in favor of the dark side.

The night that THomkal revealed as the seer, and Tyrith and LSG came off gung-ho in super-pro-lynch him anyways to us (or at least to me but I think Izulde and Gramm shared the thought) as very wolfish. We had no idea LSG was the seer at the time and had not seen any such hints of it. We had no reason to understand why she was pushing so hard for it. Izulde was already super suspicious of her anyways and this just pushed it over the edge for him. I think he was convinced LSG was bad.

We talked about it for a bit, but after a bit of discussion, we all agreed that a move like that was way too risky since hunches are good, but not ones that could potentially lose the game. The next day answered everything for us however as all of the reveals came out that day (including my own fake reveal I did) and we were able to start finally putting together the pieces. Thomkal's fake reveal there in one sense was the thing that helped us get the game going in a direction in some sense.

[SnDvls]

once I got the neckless I had pretty much made up my mind that if I had the chance to be bad I would with the neckless showing me as good. however I was also killed on my way back from exploring and never got to that point.

in my original PM Anxiety told me it was one of his favorite roles this game. I responded "that means I'll be dead by night 2" and thus I was.

[DaddyTorgo]

A couple of notes:

First, it felt like the dark teams were severe underdogs in this game. We did poorly finding rangers, but even though we were rolling early, we never got very close to winning.

Second, the names in the roles did add nice flavor, but it was a little tough to remember who was who. After the writeups I had to go to the first page to see who really had been killed.

Third, I can't believe DT never converted me back to his team. I expected to be converted back the night after I was converted the first time. Every night I kept waiting for that conversion message, but it never came.

Fourth, I may have hurt my final team a little by trying not to out my old team. Part of it was trying to play by the rules, and the other part of it was that I didn't want to give them too much information since I assumed I'd be converted off of the team. I was so convinced that they wanted to kill me off early that it took a number of days for me to finally trust my new team. It was also interesting that I alone knew how many bad guys were in the game.

Lastly, DT not killing LSG the night she scanned me was very painful. I believe we already had orders in to block her scan, but I was sure DT would kill her to put heat on Thomkal. Not wanting to waste our move, I convinced our team to go for a kill instead. I don't know if things would have been much better had we killed her, but it would have been different.

i didn't have a conversion ability Brian. I was well and truly alone once you were converted away.

And as for killing LSG...i was happy to let the villagers chase off after you sarumaners, especially cuz i had the amulet.

i did feel like dark was a definate underdog in this game, what with the rangers and the bodyguard and the seer and the large #s.

[Abe Sargent]

You did have the conversion ability as the leader of Sauron's faction, you just didn;t have the seer ability that an itial leader would have.

To be fair, if the unaffiliated darkness role had survived past the first day, that would have increased your strength significantly.

-Anxiety

[Abe Sargent]

What did you guys think about the game size. Was 25 too many? I thought it went well as a GM, but I saw all of the behind the scenes stuff.

I'd also like to hear from our new or newer players like Sublime 2 and Jonathan Ezarik about how they thought the game went.

-Anxiety

[BrianD]

i didn't have a conversion ability Brian. I was well and truly alone once you were converted away.

And as for killing LSG...i was happy to let the villagers chase off after you sarumaners, especially cuz i had the amulet.

i did feel like dark was a definate underdog in this game, what with the rangers and the bodyguard and the seer and the large #s.

Actually, you did have a conversion ability. Check the primer again (or the one on page 54 (55?)). The agents of Sauron had the Dark Conversion ability which could convert a dark agent. It could be used twice in the game. I half-expected you and the Saruman guys to each convert me twice.

The LSG non-kill really messed me up. Not knowing about your necklace made it pretty sure that we were going to handle that situation wrong. I almost tried to get a message to you in-game that you should take her out (knowing that Thomkal was going to die anyway), but I couldn't figure out a way to construct the message to make it clear to you without making it obvious to everyone else. As it turns out, it wasn't in your interest to kill her anyway, so it didn't really matter.

[DaddyTorgo]

You did have the conversion ability as the leader of Sauron's faction, you just didn;t have the seer ability that an itial leader would have.

To be fair, if the unaffiliated darkness role had survived past the first day, that would have increased your strength significantly.

-Anxiety

aaargh? seriously! i didn't think that i did!! oh well, guess i should have asked. then i could have recruited another to my side and i might have got along better. DARNIT!

[Jonathan Ezarik]

What did you guys think about the game size. Was 25 too many? I thought it went well as a GM, but I saw all of the behind the scenes stuff.

I'd also like to hear from our new or newer players like Sublime 2 and Jonathan Ezarik about how they thought the game went.

-Anxiety

I thought it went well and had a blast playing. I had a difficult time trying to keep everything straight at the beginning since there were so many players and I was afraid I was going to get overwhelmed with everything, but by the end I liked the large aspect of it. I will definitely be playing in the future. In fact, I'm kind of going through withdrawal today. Of course, this might have something to do with the fact that I lived till the end. If I'd been killed on the first day (like Scoobz), my opinion might be different.

One thing I really noticed, though, was how much people place on past performances of other players. I don't know if this is good or not, but I did find myself leaning against certain players because they were supposedly playing a different game than they normally do.

[BrianD]

It is probably a little unfair to claim that Light had an advantage. We killed our unaffiliated Dark member, and there were ways for Dark to make some strides. I do think we needed a little help though. Schmidty was going to be a big problem for us since we couldn't night-kill him (unless he forgot to guard someone) and counted as 3 of us. We would have had to convince people to lynch him.

I also initially thought that Alan Ranger skills foiled our attempt to kill him. I see now that it was just a bad die roll. Having the possibilities of all of the Rangers leaving was some potential help for us. Basically we needed Light to screw up, or we needed to lead them into some poor moves.

Thinking about it more, I like the setup. It was certainly a challege and we failed to overcome.

[BrianD]

aaargh? seriously! i didn't think that i did!! oh well, guess i should have asked. then i could have recruited another to my side and i might have got along better. DARNIT!

You could only convert a Dark person though, so your choices were limited.

[BrianD]

One thing I really noticed, though, was how much people place on past performances of other players. I don't know if this is good or not, but I did find myself leaning against certain players because they were supposedly playing a different game than they normally do.

This is one of the reasons I really like seeing new players in the game. A lot of people have been playing together so long that they have a good feel for everyone else already. New players are complete unknowns and can really shake things up. In fact, you shook things up enough in your first day that I scanned you thinking you were Dark. I feel bad for Thomkal trying to explain that scan (which I fed to him) later in the game. It made sense to me to scan you at the time, but nobody else seemed to think so.

[hoopsguy]

I really enjoyed following along this game. I am sure it would have been a blast playing along as well.

Here are my thoughts on a couple of topics that have come up in the post-game:

- Size. I think 25 is a manageable game size, but I would suggest that no matter how many people start the game that the moderator should look to complete it within two weeks. The couple of times a game has gone on longer than that have felt like a drag for the remaining players and participation seems to suffer. That wasn't a problem here with the multiple factions, as far as I could tell.

- Game Balance. One of the areas that I'm struggling with personally right now is putting together a balanced rule set for a big game (25 people) with a number of special villagers. My experience from reading other games here and on another forum is that the natural tendency is to give the good guys too many edges when you start adding more "named" roles and less "vanilla" players. After watching this game transpire, I think I may go back to my in-progress rule set and tilt it a little more towards the bad guys.

[Alan T]

My thoughts are that the 25 person isn't a bad number to start with, but like hoops said a game that large with the typical 1 lynch 1 night kill a day has a tendancy to drag on way too long, so having the ability for mutiple good guy kills and multiple bad guy kills a day helps speed this up some. You did this with ranger night kill ability (which we never used), and bad guys having multiple ways to night kill.

As far as how even things are.. I think the good guys played a very good game here. We kept our bodyguard and seer around long enough for both to make a difference and didn't pull any really bad moves that shot ourselves in the foot. I think the bad guys had some bad breaks with the die rolls and losing someone night 1 due to inactivity.

I think if the luck had balanced out some, it might have been a bit closer of a game, but I still think this likely was a tough game for the bad guys to win unless someone played an excellent game. I think thats true for most really large games. The more roles that are out there the more it seems to benefit the good side. In a large game you almost have to feel like you're giving an unfair advantage to the bad guys just to make it even at times.

I don't think this game was horribly unbalanced by design, I think like I said bad luck played a big part in it, but I do think it was an easier game for good guys to win than bad guys

[hoopsguy]

Jonathan, I enjoyed watching you play this game. Very nice first effort - always fun to see someone jump in with opinions and engage the experienced players their first time out. Looking back, I was completely wrong about your allegiance. Watching you react to LSG/Thomkal I was almost convinced that you were on the opposite bad guy team from Thomkal.

[Alan T]

Jonathan, I enjoyed watching you play this game. Very nice first effort - always fun to see someone jump in with opinions and engage the experienced players their first time out. Looking back, I was completely wrong about your allegiance. Watching you react to LSG/Thomkal I was almost convinced that you were on the opposite bad guy team from Thomkal.

I agree, I thought for a first game you did well. I don't think everyone really understands what messages I was feeding you at nights, but I thought you did a great job. You didn't overplay or underplay your role and were a big part on trying to shape some of the votes during the game.

[Tyrith]

My main thing now is that I'm going to have to train you all to understand that me being crazy doesn't mean I'm bad, me being crazy means that my personality hasn't been sucked away and replaced by that of a zombie or actuary. Maybe one of these days; everyone seems to have gotten used to Alan and blade eventually ;)

[LoneStarGirl]

LSG, I would really like it if we can put all that has happened behind us. I don't want it to keep coming up and potentially get in the way of other folks enjoying games that we play together. I apologize for my comments and hope that we can move beyond them. Just for the record, I only insulted you in the RE game. I never did in the Football Tryouts game nor this one. So, your statement that I've insulted you in every game we've played together is inaccurate.

It was a joke spleen. directed at Alant to lighten a situation. You need to learn not to take things on this board seriously. But, everything that has happened between us is out of sight and out of mind and will never be brought up again.

[LoneStarGirl]

Izulde, why did you have it for me the beginning of the game? Is that a grudge from the past?

And I had some help from hoops, so if y'all think I played bad, blame it on him, if you think I played good, it was all me. :D

[LoneStarGirl]

Blade, did you know i was a seer before you died?

[hoopsguy]

Izulde, why did you have it for me the beginning of the game? Is that a grudge from the past?

And I had some help from hoops, so if y'all think I played bad, blame it on him, if you think I played good, it was all me. :D

Absolutely. I felt like LoneStarGirl played a good game despite me :p In all seriousness, I had a good time following along this way. And I hope my lengthy dissertations didn't bore her too much.

[Sublime 2]

What did you guys think about the game size. Was 25 too many? I thought it went well as a GM, but I saw all of the behind the scenes stuff.

I'd also like to hear from our new or newer players like Sublime 2 and Jonathan Ezarik about how they thought the game went.

-Anxiety

I had a great time playing, and will most likely play again. I guess my main problem is posting...I understood the rules and everything, but just couldn't get myself to post 100 times a day. Despite what he says, Thomkal helped me quite a bit.

The beginning was the toughest part, just taking everything in, and then casting a vote. Pretty overwheling overall.

[Izulde]

Izulde, why did you have it for me the beginning of the game? Is that a grudge from the past?

And I had some help from hoops, so if y'all think I played bad, blame it on him, if you think I played good, it was all me. :D

Nope, no grudge. Just a strong hunch you were bad, based on how vocal you'd been in the other games I'd been in with you when you were a vanilla villager. :)

It actually worked out to our advantage though, in spite of your being almost night-killed, because I'm sure DT and Saruman's side figured well no sense in killing them because they're at each other's throats and maybe we can get them to lynch for us.

[st.cronin]

I thought LSG played a fantastic game, as well.

[DaddyTorgo]

Nope, no grudge. Just a strong hunch you were bad, based on how vocal you'd been in the other games I'd been in with you when you were a vanilla villager. :)

It actually worked out to our advantage though, in spite of your being almost night-killed, because I'm sure DT and Saruman's side figured well no sense in killing them because they're at each other's throats and maybe we can get them to lynch for us.

exactly

[Blade6119]

Blade, did you know i was a seer before you died?

No...i purposefully let slip the "her/she" things to throw people off the actual role i had pinned down...people threw a big fit over it and did exactly what i thought they would...assume i messed up. I had no idea you were the seer until i died. I did know thomkal wasnt the seer, but i didnt know you were.

No, my comments that everyone threw a big fit over were designed to do what they did...make everyone look in the wrong direction. I just happened to, luckily or unluckily, point them right at our seer. Thank god no one respects me enough to act on that(cough cough DT)

[DaddyTorgo]

No...i purposefully let slip the "her/she" things to throw people off the actual role i had pinned down...people threw a big fit over it and did exactly what i thought they would...assume i messed up. I had no idea you were the seer until i died. I did know thomkal wasnt the seer, but i didnt know you were.

No, my comments that everyone threw a big fit over were designed to do what they did...make everyone look in the wrong direction. I just happened to, luckily or unluckily, point them right at our seer. Thank god no one respects me enough to act on that(cough cough DT)


i've already explained my reasoning (sound IMO) for not taking out the seer or the false-seer.

[ntndeacon]

No...i purposefully let slip the "her/she" things to throw people off the actual role i had pinned down...people threw a big fit over it and did exactly what i thought they would...assume i messed up. I had no idea you were the seer until i died. I did know thomkal wasnt the seer, but i didnt know you were.

No, my comments that everyone threw a big fit over were designed to do what they did...make everyone look in the wrong direction. I just happened to, luckily or unluckily, point them right at our seer. Thank god no one respects me enough to act on that(cough cough DT)

It was funny but ithought Iremembered a post before the her/she slipup where you refer to that same person as a guy. I thought it wasn't a slip up but an attempt to not leave out the women from suspicion.

[ntndeacon]

I am actually looking forward to a role in which Ican comminicate with others. it will be a nice change instead of flailing about aimlessly and helplessly.

[Thomkal]

Jonathan, I enjoyed watching you play this game. Very nice first effort - always fun to see someone jump in with opinions and engage the experienced players their first time out. Looking back, I was completely wrong about your allegiance. Watching you react to LSG/Thomkal I was almost convinced that you were on the opposite bad guy team from Thomkal.

So much so that late in the game I scanned Jonathan just to make sure Brian wasn't deceiving us about you or that perhaps you got converted. :)

[Abe Sargent]

I really do love you all, too.

[Blade6119]

It was funny but ithought Iremembered a post before the her/she slipup where you refer to that same person as a guy. I thought it wasn't a slip up but an attempt to not leave out the women from suspicion.

Thats what i said...i said i planned it and didnt slip up..we must be having a breakdown in communication here :p

[Abe Sargent]

Of course, in this game, with so many female roles, there was less of a chance of that being read as a slip up. Hope you guys didn't mind the larger number of female roles in this

[SnDvls]

I forgot that this was the game scoobz was in.

[Abe Sargent]

I actually like that this game ended when it did, before it felt stale.

[spleen1015]

I actually like that this game ended when it did, before it felt stale.

I was surprised to see that it had ended with the villagers winning. When I saw that the game was over, I thought the bad guys had won.

[Abe Sargent]

Silly bad guys with their silly refusal to do torture and prevent me from writing a cool torture scene *grumbles*

[Abe Sargent]

If they had successfully tortured, every piece of game info the player had the Agents of Sauron would have received. Torture a Ranger and find out who the other Rangers are, the individual roles of the person tortured, any night actions they had, what night actions Rangers have, etc. Torture the seer? Amazing info.

-Anxiety

[Abe Sargent]

Forgot to mention a role I had created but ultiamtely decided to pull. I didn;t want to make the game too complex, but I thought it wa sneat, so I'll share it with you now:


This character is an Agent of Saruman who follows him because she still beleives Saruman is on the side of Light. Her powers help her track down and hunt Agents of Sauron, and she is still in regular contact with Saruman. She is an Agent of Saruman but on the Side of Light.

If the Rangers Scout her, then they dfind out she works for Saruman and that she's Light. Then they get a new Night Action - Convince Agent that they can use on any subsequent night to try and convince her that Saruman has turned to the darkness. There is a cumulative chance of success each night. Ultimately, she can swtcih to Townsfolk.

While she is an Agent of Saruman, however, despite being Light, she counts as Dark for purposes of ending the game.

A cool character, sure, but as you can see, it's a bit confusing. Very flavorful though.

-Anxiety

[Schmidty]

You kick ass dude. I really like you as a GM.

I might be saying that because I'm tipsy (my little sister is here), but I think you're great.

You other people are great too. I am like a hippy right now.

[Abe Sargent]

Thanks buddy, I appreciate, especially since you were my first GM!


-Anxiety