Werewolf XXXVII: Middle-Earth - GAME ENDS. Who Won? Check it out!

[st.cronin]

Post #451 cronin, which people asked you to explain at the time and you never did. Now that you seem to be talking more, care to explain this post from yesterday? Is it in regards to alan, as that was what i felt CR/Saldana debate was over

All I meant was that as I read things I found myself agreeing with saldana's pov. Then some people were saying he was suspicious. Since I know I'm good, I am willing to say that his day 1 play was NOT suspicious.

[Lorena]

Well, I'm on pg. 15, but not all the way down. Seems like we need 2 votes to vote for Chief (if I added correctly):

VOTE CHIEF RUM

I absolutely do not like early no-lynches. I voted for him more because we need a majority, not really because I feel he is on the dark side. I feel bad he's not here to defend himself though.

[Alan T]

Alan, I am very much not voting for Chief, which would be the error with your record.

Oh you voted for swaggs. ok my bad. I'll fix that. I didnt read clearly. sorry am trying to get the place cleaned up too

[Tyrith]

Why did you vote for me, then?

I am one of the few people that have come out and said I am on the side of light and I put out my position that, agree with me or not, I feel like we need to vote/lynch someone because it is one of the only tools available to us, yet you vote for me because I am being suspicious.

Because you kept insisting the day 1 vote record means something. It doesn't. This is pretty much a vote against that idea.

[Alan T]

Kk, here is updated list. my apologies:

(11) Chief Rum - Saldana (482), Alan (504), Schmidty (552), Lathum (555), Jonathan Ezarik (577), Thomkal (585), Grammaticus (593), Spleen (625), Lonestargirl (700), Mr. Wednesday (708) Izulde (738)
(7) Lathum - St.Cronin (557), Swaggs (594), Ntndeacon (595), Kwhit (607), Sublime (616), BrianD (707), Daddytorgo (712)
(1) Saldana - Chief Rum (446)
(1) St.cronin - Sndvls (532)
(1) Alan - Blade (611)
(1) Swaggs - Tyrith (704)

[Jonathan Ezarik]

That's 12 votes for CR.

[Swaggs]

Because you kept insisting the day 1 vote record means something. It doesn't. This is pretty much a vote against that idea.

It will mean something in conjunction with the other votes.

[KWhit]

Unvote Lathum

Vote Chief Rum

[KWhit]

FYI: My vote change was to try to help make sure we get a majority.

[Tyrith]

It will mean something in conjunction with the other votes.

Not really, because they could be fairly certain he was going to die early on and they could use it as a chance to get some "good" votes in. Or, more likely, they didn't know who he was. But this is a situation where there could easily be bad guys that have good records.

[st.cronin]

Well, I'm on pg. 15, but not all the way down. Seems like we need 2 votes to vote for Chief (if I added correctly):

VOTE CHIEF RUM

I absolutely do not like early no-lynches. I voted for him more because we need a majority, not really because I feel he is on the dark side. I feel bad he's not here to defend himself though.

I really don't understand this logic, at all. If you think it's a bad lynch, DON'T VOTE FOR HIM!

Lynching a villager is worse for the village than not lynching anybody.

[Alan T]

As of post 759:

(13) Chief Rum - Saldana (482), Alan (504), Schmidty (552), Lathum (555), Jonathan Ezarik (577), Thomkal (585), Grammaticus (593), Spleen (625), Lonestargirl (700), Mr. Wednesday (708) Izulde (738), Dodgerchick (752), Kwhit (758)
(6) Lathum - St.Cronin (557), Swaggs (594), Ntndeacon (595), Sublime (616), BrianD (707), Daddytorgo (712)
(1) Saldana - Chief Rum (446)
(1) St.cronin - Sndvls (532)
(1) Alan - Blade (611)
(1) Swaggs - Tyrith (704)

[Blade6119]

I really don't understand this logic, at all. If you think it's a bad lynch, DON'T VOTE FOR HIM!

Lynching a villager is worse for the village than not lynching anybody.

I strongly disagree with thos

[KWhit]

I really don't understand this logic, at all. If you think it's a bad lynch, DON'T VOTE FOR HIM!

Lynching a villager is worse for the village than not lynching anybody.


You're right. You just helped me make my decision. I don't really think CR is bad, so I'm switching back.

Sorry if this is a f*** up.

Unvote Chief Rum
Vote Lathum

[Alan T]

I strongly disagree with thos

How can you strongly disagree with something you are doing?

[Lathum]

Tyriths votes are very suspiscous to me. He unvotes me because he says he is sure I am not gonna be lynched, then moves to a Swaggs who has no heat on him at all. It seems to me he is trying to cover his tracks...

[KWhit]

How can you strongly disagree with something you are doing?

Heh. Good point.

[Tyrith]

Lynching a villager is only good for us when finding out his affiliation will really tell us something about the other players. With Chief being gone we pretty much have the first three or four voters with any sort of argument at all, and a bunch of followers. Alan's argument was not liking chief defending someone so easily. Lathum and saldana are just saying that they've seen him play like this before and be bad. These arguments wouldn't tell me much about them if he was lynched, because they had to make some weak argument today to put a vote in. In this case I think if we lynch a villager we're mostly just down a villager -- the information won't be worth a dead body.

Of course, there's the chance he's bad you also have to weigh in, meaning I can't completely object to this.

[Sublime 2]

I feel that there is atleast a small case to vote Lathum at this point, st. cronin pointed this out around post 705 or so, but I'm missing why we should be voting CR.

[Alan T]

Well its deadline.. guess good or bad, we find out something maybe.

(12) Chief Rum - Saldana (482), Alan (504), Schmidty (552), Lathum (555), Jonathan Ezarik (577), Thomkal (585), Grammaticus (593), Spleen (625), Lonestargirl (700), Mr. Wednesday (708) Izulde (738), Dodgerchick (752)
(7) Lathum - St.Cronin (557), Swaggs (594), Ntndeacon (595), Sublime (616), BrianD (707), Daddytorgo (712), Kwhit (765)
(1) Saldana - Chief Rum (446)
(1) St.cronin - Sndvls (532)
(1) Alan - Blade (611)
(1) Swaggs - Tyrith (704)

[Abe Sargent]

That is time. For today's vote, we need 12 out of 23 players. Let me go check.

[saldana]

I really don't understand this logic, at all. If you think it's a bad lynch, DON'T VOTE FOR HIM!

Lynching a villager is worse for the village than not lynching anybody.

You're right. You just helped me make my decision. I don't really think CR is bad, so I'm switching back.

Sorry if this is a f*** up.

Unvote Chief Rum
Vote Lathum

because we have a chance of hitting a bad guy instead of sitting on our hands and letting the forces of darkness pick us off one at a time at night. look how lucky we got yesterday...nothing to say we couldnt get that lucky again.

[Sublime 2]

Lynching a villager is only good for us when finding out his affiliation will really tell us something about the other players. With Chief being gone we pretty much have the first three or four voters with any sort of argument at all, and a bunch of followers. Alan's argument was not liking chief defending someone so easily. Lathum and saldana are just saying that they've seen him play like this before and be bad. These arguments wouldn't tell me much about them if he was lynched, because they had to make some weak argument today to put a vote in. In this case I think if we lynch a villager we're mostly just down a villager -- the information won't be worth a dead body.

Of course, there's the chance he's bad you also have to weigh in, meaning I can't completely object to this.

Ok, I think i missed these points before, atleast Lathum and saldana's.

[Blade6119]

How can you strongly disagree with something you are doing?

Im voting you for the sole reason of getting you and cronin to shut up. My original action was to vote chief and be make sure the lynch happened. You both threw a big fit over it becuase i feel he is good, so to stop you two from whining incessantly i swapped to you. I am voting you becuase your my top suspect and you nagged me enough about how my original choice was such a terrible decision. :rolleyes:

[Tyrith]

Tyriths votes are very suspiscous to me. He unvotes me because he says he is sure I am not gonna be lynched, then moves to a Swaggs who has no heat on him at all. It seems to me he is trying to cover his tracks...

Then you better be damn well suspicious of Blade, too. I won't let you get away with just pointing it at me.

[Alan T]

Im voting you for the sole reason of getting you and cronin to shut up. My original action was to vote chief and be make sure the lynch happened. You both threw a big fit over it becuase i feel he is good, so to stop you two from whining incessantly i swapped to you. I am voting you becuase your my top suspect and you nagged me enough about how my original choice was such a terrible decision. :rolleyes:

Stop putting words in my mouth. The only fit I had was you saying that I made you vote a certain way. I don't care honestly how you vote.

[Lathum]

Then you better be damn well suspicious of Blade, too. I won't let you get away with just pointing it at me.

blades actions early in the game lead me to believe he is of no harm to us.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Lynching a villager is worse for the village than not lynching anybody.

Should we never vote to lynch anyone again unless we are absolutely sure that he's not a villager? Instead we should just wait until we get picked off one by one?

[Abe Sargent]

I have 12 for Chief Rum. Is that confirmed?

[Blade6119]

Then you better be damn well suspicious of Blade, too. I won't let you get away with just pointing it at me.

Ive got my own problems to deal with tyrith...when you get on my level of heat, EVERY GAME, then come talk to me. The amount of heat you have on you is like childs play compared to what ive had to put up with so far.

[Tyrith]

Furthermore, I was right about you not going to be getting lynched; even with everyone that had voted for you it would have been, what, 10 votes? With the remaining outstanding votes being highly unlikely to move towards you instead of the candidate with the higher count.

[Tyrith]

Ive got my own problems to deal with tyrith...when you get on my level of heat, EVERY GAME, then come talk to me. The amount of heat you have on you is like childs play compared to what ive had to put up with so far.

I wasn't trying to point him at you as to point out that his logic had holes in it. I've told you repeatedly today that I'm on your side in this war against people killing you for bad reasons, remember? :)

[Jonathan Ezarik]

That's what I've got too, Abe.

[SnDvls]

I have 12 for Chief Rum. Is that confirmed?

I think that's what alan has too

[Tyrith]

I also have 12 for chief.

[Abe Sargent]

The evening brings an end to the sunshine that penetrated the fog and another day of deliberations. Fresh from success the previous day and a reminder of why you are embarking on this task last night, resolve hardens your veins and tendons.

Tonight you vote another of your own for lynching. Righteousness boils through the assembly. You have voted for Chief Rum. When the final vote is tallied, he cries out in fright and scurries underneath the tale, but you pull his three foot two inch frame out from under the table easily enough.

One of you carries him to the central gallows you had set up but with which you do not administer justice the previous evening, since Scoobz forced you to cut him down. This will be the first lynch of the freshly cut and assembled gallows.

Right away you notice a problem. Your gallows are man height, and not designed for a hobbit. You discuss the situation and decide to have someone hold him up while the rope is tied around his neck, then release him.

You begin to prepare the rope, and Chief Rum looks at you with wide eyed horror. He knows that death has marked him, and fate will off him this evening. His tears of sorrow glisten in the twilight, but your resolve is set. Although a few of you begin to have doubts, the assembly has spoken.

The sight of the hobbit, openly weeping in torment, is ultimately too much for you, and you have to cover his head. You cast lots to see who will have to hold him up, and once that is decided, the task begins. His hobbit frame squirms under the weight of the hanging, and it takes him a lot longer to die than a human would have taken, because he weighs less. After a half hour of horror, he still twitches occasionally. You decide to leave him alone for now and investigate his place.

Nob was a hobbit servant at the Prancing Pony Inn, and he kept a small room there, underneath the Inn. You enter it as best as you can, but find nothing to verify your suspicions. As far as you can tell, he was just a normal hobbit who served you all just as he did Mr. Underhill’s party.

Realizing your mistake, you hurry back to the gallows, but it is too late, and the hobbit lies dead. The sheer terror on his face as he realized that his friends and associates were about to kill him are everywhere you turn, and shutting your eyes does not blank the shame.


Day Two has ended. Night Two has begun. It ends at 3:30 am EST Wednesday morning.


-Anxiety

[Lorena]

I really don't understand this logic, at all. If you think it's a bad lynch, DON'T VOTE FOR HIM!

Lynching a villager is worse for the village than not lynching anybody.

See, what's different about this game is that we need a majority (50% +1), so that means we either kill someone and learn something based on voting records or trails people leave, or we keep our finger up our butt and let the dark side kill us off one by one, or multiple times a night.

Who knows, Chief just MIGHT be evil, we'll have to see, but I just don't want an early no-lynch.

[st.cronin]

Should we never vote to lynch anyone again unless we are absolutely sure that he's not a villager? Instead we should just wait until we get picked off one by one?

No, of course not. But voting INSERT RANDOM PLAYER simply because you think you HAVE to lynch somebody is really pathetic. Show some stones, find a reason to vote for somebody.

[Sublime 2]

Ive got my own problems to deal with tyrith...when you get on my level of heat, EVERY GAME, then come talk to me. The amount of heat you have on you is like childs play compared to what ive had to put up with so far.

I'm not saying I didn't enjoy the bit yesterday, but don't you think you kind of brought some of the heat on you in the beginning of this? Like i said i didn't mind like some did, but it certainly raises an eyebrow or two.

[Lathum]

Furthermore, I was right about you not going to be getting lynched; even with everyone that had voted for you it would have been, what, 10 votes? With the remaining outstanding votes being highly unlikely to move towards you instead of the candidate with the higher count.

so if you were so sure I wasn't gonna be lynched why switch?

[st.cronin]

ah well

I am right again.

[DaddyTorgo]

dammit!!!

[Abe Sargent]

dammit!!!



Watch the language.

[Swaggs]

Wow... that was a powerful write up. :(

[Izulde]

Ugh. That sucks.

Beautiful writeup though, Anxiety.

[Tyrith]

so if you were so sure I wasn't gonna be lynched why switch?

Because I could use the vote to rally against a point of contention in the game. Although, to be fair, I should have explained the vote better at the time, but I was not happy.

[DaddyTorgo]

Watch the language.

errr sorry

"Dagnabbit!" or "darnit!"

do you want me to edit it?

[Blade6119]

Stop putting words in my mouth. The only fit I had was you saying that I made you vote a certain way. I don't care honestly how you vote.
My arguement was you were my top suspect. I said becuase you werent going to get lynched, id take your supporter as my second best suspect. I never said you compelled me to vote a certain way, so stop putting words into my mouth...

By the way, i love these two posts
Dola,

I love the arguement I'm going to vote with person X, but if my vote ends up being bad I'm going to vote for person X tommorrow.

Please Blade, don't do me any favors and vote for someone else if you don't agree with my reasoning. I give my reasons for the vote, agree with them or disagree with them but in no way am I compelling you to do something you don't want to do.
You actually recognize my acutal argument in the first half, then digress...I love how that one ends and this one follows shortly...nice contrast :p
If you think Chief is good, then don't vote him. Sheesh

[SnDvls]

sucks big time

wish CR could have been here to defend himself

[Jonathan Ezarik]

I thought we needed 13 for the 50%+1?

[Tyrith]

I'd like to note that it's not as if you're going to forget I voted for you or anything. The damage in that regard was very much done, I just wanted to do something slightly useful with the vote.

[Blade6119]

I'm not saying I didn't enjoy the bit yesterday, but don't you think you kind of brought some of the heat on you in the beginning of this? Like i said i didn't mind like some did, but it certainly raises an eyebrow or two.

I didnt say i didnt expect, or even enjoy the heat. I simply stated i had quite a bit more and didnt need tyrith convincing more people to suspect me. I find these games boring if im not on the edge. Just sitting back and making 2 comments a day just doesnt interest me. I love my play style as much, if not more then, most people hate it.

[SnDvls]

I thought we needed 13 for the 50%+1?

23 divided by 2 plus one is 12

[Tyrith]

I thought we needed 13 for the 50%+1?

23 players alive, 12 is a clear cut majority.

The +1 thing was just written so that when we have an even number of people alive exactly half is not a majority. AKA if we have 22 alive tomorrow 11 votes will not lynch. Otherwise it's just like any other majority vote in anything else.

[LoneStarGirl]

there are 23 of us, so 12 is more than half of 23.... I think anxiety explained it early, like in page 5

[Blade6119]

Well i cant say i didnt see the writing on the wall...not i get to enjoy seeing alan and the other spin this

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Nevermind, I'm an idiot. I forgot we also lost Fouts last night.

[KWhit]

ah well

I am right again.

Me too.

[Alan T]

My arguement was you were my top suspect. I said becuase you werent going to get lynched, id take your supporter as my second best suspect. I never said you compelled me to vote a certain way, so stop putting words into my mouth...

By the way, i love these two posts

You actually recognize my acutal argument in the first half, then digress...I love how that one ends and this one follows shortly...nice contrast :p

Well you know.. if you attack me non stop for 2 days, it doesn't convince me that I'm bad. It just gets annoying after a while. So take that contrast however you want.

[Abe Sargent]

errr sorry

"Dagnabbit!" or "darnit!"

do you want me to edit it?

Nah, just watch it in the future.

[Alan T]

Well i cant say i didnt see the writing on the wall...not i get to enjoy seeing alan and the other spin this

What do you want me to spin? I guessed wrong. Good lord

[Sublime 2]

I didnt say i didnt expect, or even enjoy the heat. I simply stated i had quite a bit more and didnt need tyrith convincing more people to suspect me. I find these games boring if im not on the edge. Just sitting back and making 2 comments a day just doesnt interest me. I love my play style as much, if not more then, most people hate it.

Ok, that's understandable. At first your comments just sounded (to me) to be like a 'woe is me' kind of thing. I hope I can build myself up to your level of always being on edge. Certainly puts a little more interest into the game. :D

[Blade6119]

Well you know.. if you attack me non stop for 2 days, it doesn't convince me that I'm bad. It just gets annoying after a while. So take that contrast however you want.
Yes, im trying to convince you your bad...you figured out my grand scheme. My goal was to get you to self-vote yourself. Wow alan, im glad we have reached this intelligent conclusion to this debate :)

[Alan T]

Yes, im trying to convince you your bad...you figured out my grand scheme. My goal was to get you to self-vote yourself. Wow alan, im glad we have reached this intelligent conclusion to this debate :)

Is this an ok place to put these eyes again? :rolleyes:

[Tyrith]

Yes, im trying to convince you your bad...you figured out my grand scheme. My goal was to get you to self-vote yourself. Wow alan, im glad we have reached this intelligent conclusion to this debate :)

Then your plan is terrible! He can't self vote himself, it's against the rules! Blade, your perfect scheme has failed!

[Blade6119]

What do you want me to spin? I guessed wrong. Good lord

Alan, if your good i understand totally. Ive had many many times where i drove a lynch and was wrong. But you have to understand i saw my top suspect be one of the major reasons a certain person was lynched and blow it off fairly non-chalantly...im willing to see both sides of your case, but you have to be open to seeing both of mine

[Blade6119]

Is this an ok place to put these eyes again? :rolleyes:

Its a great place..i would have used them in mine lest you think me attacking you again :D

[Lorena]

Wow, what a write-up. The twitching part got to me... poor Chief.

ah well

I am right again.

Yes, you are. Cronin you are a very underrated WW player ya know?

[Blade6119]

Then your plan is terrible! He can't self vote himself, it's against the rules! Blade, your perfect scheme has failed!

Thats the key to the perfect plan. As a bad guy, he votes himself, gets kicked out, and we win! Its perfect, i told you!!! :p

[Blade6119]

Wow, what a write-up. The twitching part got to me... poor Chief.



Yes, you are. Cronin you are a very underrated WW player ya know?

Come on DC, i was right too...dont i get a comment about my ability?? :( :)

[Blade6119]

Ok, that's understandable. At first your comments just sounded (to me) to be like a 'woe is me' kind of thing. I hope I can build myself up to your level of always being on edge. Certainly puts a little more interest into the game. :D

Besides me, that is the last thing everyone wants. They all dislike me already, god forbid i take someone under my wing ;)

[Tyrith]

Thats the key to the perfect plan. As a bad guy, he votes himself, gets kicked out, and we win! Its perfect, i told you!!! :p

OMG, you're right! It is perfect! ALL HAIL BLADE!

[Tyrith]

Besides me, that is the last thing everyone wants. They all dislike me already, god forbid i take someone under my wing ;)

If you did that I think we'd hunt you down and beat you over the head with your keyboard :)

[Alan T]

Alan, if your good i understand totally. Ive had many many times where i drove a lynch and was wrong. But you have to understand i saw my top suspect be one of the major reasons a certain person was lynched and blow it off fairly non-chalantly...im willing to see both sides of your case, but you have to be open to seeing both of mine

I didn't push anyone to vote him. I put my vote on him and said my reason why. I was not the one campaigning for people to lynch Chief because we had to lynch someone. I was not one of the people who put my vote on there for no reason.

I will continue to try to put as much thought into my vote every day and give my reason why for it when I can. Like I said, I voted him based on past experience with how he acted with me. I was wrong, life goes on.

[SnDvls]

what are you all "right" about?
that he wasn't on the side of dark?

I think many people stated that today.

[Lorena]

Come on DC, i was right too...dont i get a comment about my ability?? :( :)

Do I need to? I've said it plenty in other games ;)

[Blade6119]

Do I need to? I've said it plenty in other games ;)

Oh, in public...but we all saw ant's song, i know what you say in private to your husband :mad:


Much love DC :)

[st.cronin]

I would like everybody who was online and who read my indictment of Lathum yet did not vote for him, to explain why not.

[Lorena]

I would like everybody who was online and who read my indictment of Lathum yet did not vote for him, to explain why not.

Umm... I skimmed through the past few pages to get caught up. What post number specifically?

[Blade6119]

I would like everybody who was online and who read my indictment of Lathum yet did not vote for him, to explain why not.

Post #?

I can tell you myself the reason i didnt vote lathum is that lathum isnt acting like he does when he is bad usually in my mind. Hes playing like the lathum i got in fights with when we were both good, not the one we beat at the last second in the small game just now.

[Alan T]

I would like everybody who was online and who read my indictment of Lathum yet did not vote for him, to explain why not.

I felt moving my vote that late after being on Chief the entire time would be viewed very poorly in the case that Chief ended up bad. I think it would have looked poorly for me to sit on Chief after giving detailed thought and reason into my vote on the forum all day and then at the last minute switch to try to get out of the accountability for my actions.

I don't really feel any worse about Lathum than I do any number of people in the game right now, however I felt bad about chief for the personal interaction reasons.

[Lorena]

I voted for him because he suggested that there was an unsuccesful conversion. This could mean

- the forces of darkness tried to convert him and for some reason failed
- he is in league with the forces of darkness, and is trying to confuse us with rumors
- he is a witness and has some knowledge of night activities
- he has no idea what happened last night and is just taking a WAG

Cases 1 and 3 he would be better served to just tell us "this happened last night." Case 2 he is a good lynch, case 4, well, who knows. I voted for him, but I'm not sold on the lynch.

Found it, nevermind.

[Blade6119]

I voted for him because he suggested that there was an unsuccesful conversion. This could mean

- the forces of darkness tried to convert him and for some reason failed
- he is in league with the forces of darkness, and is trying to confuse us with rumors
- he is a witness and has some knowledge of night activities
- he has no idea what happened last night and is just taking a WAG

Cases 1 and 3 he would be better served to just tell us "this happened last night." Case 2 he is a good lynch, case 4, well, who knows. I voted for him, but I'm not sold on the lynch.
1.No reason for him not to tell us, unless he is the turncoat..not likely to me
2.Id say its more becuase he tried it and failed then this, but possible
3.He would tell us
4.Lathum is eccentric, so i wouldnt say this isnt an option

I told you why i didnt vote him, and none of the reasons you presented put him before alan on my list.

[st.cronin]

I voted for him because he suggested that there was an unsuccesful conversion. This could mean

- the forces of darkness tried to convert him and for some reason failed
- he is in league with the forces of darkness, and is trying to confuse us with rumors
- he is a witness and has some knowledge of night activities
- he has no idea what happened last night and is just taking a WAG

Cases 1 and 3 he would be better served to just tell us "this happened last night." Case 2 he is a good lynch, case 4, well, who knows. I voted for him, but I'm not sold on the lynch.

Here it is. Lathum's response has been to attack Tyrith.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

I voted for him, but I'm not sold on the lynch.

That's not a ringing endorsement to me. Why should I have swung my vote to Lathum is you weren't even sold on it?

[st.cronin]

That's not a ringing endorsement to me. Why should I have swung my vote to Lathum is you weren't even sold on it?

Because there wasn't even a BAD reason to vote for CR, as was pointed out by several people.

[Lorena]

Because there wasn't even a BAD reason to vote for CR, as was pointed out by several people.

cronin, so would you have wanted a no-lynch tonight instead of lynching a villager? I mean doesn't getting CR lynched leave us with something to work on for the future?

That was my reason for voting for Chief.

[Alan T]

cronin, so would you have wanted a no-lynch tonight instead of lynching a villager? I mean doesn't getting CR lynched leave us with something to work on for the future?

That was my reason for voting for Chief.

I'm pretty sure St.Cronin said many times he would rather us lynch no body than a good guy

[BrianD]

Can't say tonight was too much of a surprise. With our luck last night, there probably aren't a whole lot of dark people left to hit. Hopefully we'll learn a bit more tomorrow.

[Lorena]

I'm pretty sure St.Cronin said many times he would rather us lynch no body than a good guy

Oh he did, my bad. I remember someone saying it but couldn't remember who it was.

[Blade6119]

Can't say tonight was too much of a surprise. With our luck last night, there probably aren't a whole lot of dark people left to hit. Hopefully we'll learn a bit more tomorrow.

Last night we lost the herbalist...im assuming you mean the lynch, in which case i would say i think we have more bad guys then most people think considering they want to kill each other too

[Tyrith]

cronin, so would you have wanted a no-lynch tonight instead of lynching a villager? I mean doesn't getting CR lynched leave us with something to work on for the future?

That was my reason for voting for Chief.

The only problem is that we don't have a ton to work with. I think Alan's reason was pretty much valid...saldana and lathum I'm not as sure about, but it wasn't some huge war or anything we can take definitive action from. Instead we're just left feeling kinda icky.

Lathum is still on my suspect list for tomorrow...he's been bad enough lately that he is certainly capable of learning new tricks. Beyond that I don't know.

[st.cronin]

cronin, so would you have wanted a no-lynch tonight instead of lynching a villager? I mean doesn't getting CR lynched leave us with something to work on for the future?

That was my reason for voting for Chief.

Not when there's a mass of players voting for Chief because "WE HAVE TO LYNCH SOMEBODY." How do you pick through those votes?

[Blade6119]

Not when there's a mass of players voting for Chief because "WE HAVE TO LYNCH SOMEBODY." How do you pick through those votes?

How do you pick through votes when no one is lynched?

[BrianD]

Last night we lost the herbalist...im assuming you mean the lynch, in which case i would say i think we have more bad guys then most people think considering they want to kill each other too

Yes, I meant the lynch. We get the results at night which is what I meant by "last night".

The bad guys do want to kill each other too, but there can't be too many or it would be easy for them to overrun the villagers.

[Lathum]

I think St.Cronin jumping on me because I suggested there was a failed conversion is very wolfish.

[Tyrith]

How do you pick through votes when no one is lynched?

You don't, but you have another warm body at least.

[Tyrith]

I think St.Cronin jumping on me because I suggested there was a failed conversion is very wolfish.

You seem to think anyone making any sort of actual argument against you is wolfish today.

[BrianD]

Is anyone else having trouble keeping track of who has been backing who in this game? I am having a bear of a time keeping these side-squabbles straight.

[st.cronin]

How do you pick through votes when no one is lynched?

If Chief Rum had not been lynched, we would be +1 villager. Ask yourself this: Are the forces of evil happy he was lynched, or would they have preferred a no lynch? The answer is really obvious.

[BrianD]

If Chief Rum had not been lynched, we would be +1 villager. Ask yourself this: Are the forces of evil happy he was lynched, or would they have preferred a no lynch? The answer is really obvious.

That is really easy to ask after you know the results of the lynch. We learn through lynches. Of course we'd be happy if we never lynched villagers, but that just isn't possible.

[st.cronin]

That is really easy to ask after you know the results of the lynch. We learn through lynches. Of course we'd be happy if we never lynched villagers, but that just isn't possible.

This is a fair point, but what I (and others) were saying during the day is that there never was a good reason to vote for Chief Rum. One of the benefits to putting votes on somebody is to see how they defend themselves. We all knew that CR was not going to be around to do so. So, the lynch vote became based on lynching somebody, instead of trying out an actual theory.

[DaddyTorgo]

This is a fair point, but what I (and others) were saying during the day is that there never was a good reason to vote for Chief Rum. One of the benefits to putting votes on somebody is to see how they defend themselves. We all knew that CR was not going to be around to do so. So, the lynch vote became based on lynching somebody, instead of trying out an actual theory.

true. which is why i advocated a switch to lathum, although there wasn't really enough time to even learn anything from him defending himself due to damm RL getting in my way.

[BrianD]

This is a fair point, but what I (and others) were saying during the day is that there never was a good reason to vote for Chief Rum. One of the benefits to putting votes on somebody is to see how they defend themselves. We all knew that CR was not going to be around to do so. So, the lynch vote became based on lynching somebody, instead of trying out an actual theory.

Ok, that I won't argue with. CR was not around to defend himself. Of course there is always the chance of others on his team (if he was bad) to push a little harder for another candidate. Had he turned out bad, we could have seen who was trying to get people to look places other than him. I will agree, though, that it would have been better if CR had been around to defend himself.

[st.cronin]

Ok, that I won't argue with. CR was not around to defend himself. Of course there is always the chance of others on his team (if he was bad) to push a little harder for another candidate. Had he turned out bad, we could have seen who was trying to get people to look places other than him. I will agree, though, that it would have been better if CR had been around to defend himself.

It would have been far better if people had voted for who they had wanted to vote for rather than getting sucked into the "we need to lynch SOMEBODY" mentality, which is just complete bs.

[BrianD]

It would have been far better if people had voted for who they had wanted to vote for rather than getting sucked into the "we need to lynch SOMEBODY" mentality, which is just complete bs.

Eventually someone will need to die so we can understand how to evaluate those votes. As we go along in this game, we will probably start to learn something from those who chose to vote for people they thought were guilty, and those who were piling on to get a majority.

[Grammaticus]

Not when there's a mass of players voting for Chief because "WE HAVE TO LYNCH SOMEBODY." How do you pick through those votes?

You act like EVERYONE voted for him. Just under half did not vote CR. You do have something to evaluate. Plus we have a higher percentage chance of hitting a bad guy in tomorrows lynch. That is the basic mechanic of the game.

[st.cronin]

You act like EVERYONE voted for him. Just under half did not vote CR. You do have something to evaluate. Plus we have a higher percentage chance of hitting a bad guy in tomorrows lynch. That is the basic mechanic of the game.

Point me to one post where somebody other than Alan gave a reason for voting for Chief Rum, other than "have to make sure there's a majority." That means ELEVEN people voted for somebody they were unwilling to say was bad. So, you try to figure out what that means.

[Grammaticus]

Point me to one post where somebody other than Alan gave a reason for voting for Chief Rum, other than "have to make sure there's a majority." That means ELEVEN people voted for somebody they were unwilling to say was bad. So, you try to figure out what that means.

It means failing to lynch ENSURES you cannot eliminate a bad guy. Even lynching someone randomly gives you a better chance to win the game. As the good guys, we have more players to offset the fact we have little information to make the lynch. This allows more good guys than bad guys to die in order for the good guys to win.

This is actually a tired argument. Just vote whoever you think is bad. Next time don't wait until the lynch is over to declare yourself RIGHT AGAIN. I guess that means you KNOW Lathum is bad, since that is where your vote was. As someone else pointed out, you posted you were not sure. Actually until Lathum dies, we don't really know if you were RIGHT or not, do we?

[st.cronin]

It means failing to lynch ENSURES you cannot eliminate a bad guy. Even lynching someone randomly gives you a better chance to win the game. As the good guys, we have more players to offset the fact we have little information to make the lynch. This allows more good guys than bad guys to die in order for the good guys to win.

This is actually a tired argument. Just vote whoever you think is bad. Next time don't wait until the lynch is over to declare yourself RIGHT AGAIN. I guess that means you KNOW Lathum is bad, since that is where your vote was. As someone else pointed out, you posted you were not sure. Actually until Lathum dies, we don't really know if you were RIGHT or not, do we?

What I was right about was that we were headed towards a bad lynch - one where not only did we lose a villager, but we learned absolutely nothing. I was far from the only one who pointed this out. There were several others who said the same thing. Really, it should have been obvious to any experienced player.

[Grammaticus]

Point me to one post where somebody other than Alan gave a reason for voting for Chief Rum, other than "have to make sure there's a majority." That means ELEVEN people voted for somebody they were unwilling to say was bad. So, you try to figure out what that means.

Post 719 is where I told you I voted for him because he was UTR versus Lathum. I had a good feeling about Lathum. His post about a conversion possibly failing was odd, but not a big enough issue to offset the pro village posts from Lathum up to that point. CR usually posts a bit in games and he has been really quite. I had no pro village feel about him. Unfortunatley we lynched a good guy and I'm not happy about that.

[Blade6119]

What I was right about was that we were headed towards a bad lynch - one where not only did we lose a villager, but we learned absolutely nothing. I was far from the only one who pointed this out. There were several others who said the same thing. Really, it should have been obvious to any experienced player.

So shouldnt that make you take a closer look at those that started the votes? Lathum didnt come on until after 2-3 other vets...

[st.cronin]

CR usually posts a bit in games and he has been really quite.

You obviously have him confused with somebody else. :confused:

[Grammaticus]

What I was right about was that we were headed towards a bad lynch - one where not only did we lose a villager, but we learned absolutely nothing. I was far from the only one who pointed this out. There were several others who said the same thing. Really, it should have been obvious to any experienced player.

An experienced player should know our chances of lynching a bad guy in CR were low, but still better than zero percent that goes with a "no-lynch".

Hind sight is 20/20. If I am still alive when Lathum dies, I'll tell you if I was "right again". Then if he turns out bad, I'll tell you I was "wrong again". We have all been both right and wrong before.

[Grammaticus]

You obviously have him confused with somebody else. :confused:

He was quite the chatty kathy in the tombstone game. I'm pretty sure he has been pretty talkative in other recent games too.

[Sublime 2]

I voted for Lathum, partly based on what st. cronin said in post #705 and partly because I was interested in how each reacted. At that time, however, I could see how people were voting for CR. I think it's a similar situation to yesterday, in that CR wasn't here to defend himself. It was different in that we knew CR was playing, but I feel that it made it very easy for ppl to pile onto him knowing there would be no resistance. Maybe it wasn't the best vote, but probably the easiest.

[st.cronin]

So shouldnt that make you take a closer look at those that started the votes? Lathum didnt come on until after 2-3 other vets...

Lathum I believe was the second vote for Chief Rum. Second or third, and anyway, that vote had nothing to do with why I voted for him.

I am fine voting for somebody else, but I have not seen anybody other than myself post a circle of trust, or lay out any kind of indictment that I find meaningful.

Basically, Blade thinks Al is bad, and Al thinks Blade is bad, because of stuff that happened on Day 1, which day 1 is almost never meaningful - as I say in every game, bad guys don't slip up, and especially they don't call attention to themselves, on day 1. So other than the Blade-Alan peeing contest, what do we have to go on? Had people voted for people they were willing to accuse, then we could have looked at what happens tonight, and added that to the impressions people had during today, and there would have been a LOT more data.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Basically, Blade thinks Al is bad, and Al thinks Blade is bad, because of stuff that happened on Day 1, which day 1 is almost never meaningful - as I say in every game, bad guys don't slip up, and especially they don't call attention to themselves, on day 1.

What's to say that Blade didn't go overboard just so he could say "If I was bad, why would I draw attention to myself"?

[Alan T]

Here is vote order. I was second vote on Chief Rum.

(446) Chief rum votes Saldana (1)
(482) Saldana votes Chief Rum (1)
(484) Izulde votes Blade (1)
(501) Jonathan Ezarik votes Daddy Torgo (1)
(504) Alan votes Chief Rum (2)
(532) Sndvls votes St.Cronin (1)
(552) Schmidty votes Chief Rum (3)
(554) BrianD votes Spleen (1)
(555) Lathum votes Chief Rum (4)
(557) St.Cronin votes Lathum (1)
(565) Tyrith votes Lathum (2)
(574) Blade votes Chief Rum (5)
(577) Jonathan Ezarik UNVOTES Daddy Torgo (0) ***
(577) Jonathan Ezarik votes Chief Rum (6)
(583) Mr.Wednesday votes Lathum (3)
(585) Thomkal votes Chief Rum (7)
(593) Grammaticus votes Chief Rum (8)
(594) Swaggs votes Lathum (4)
(595) Ntndeacon votes Lathum (5)
(607) Kwhit votes Lathum (6)
(611) Blade UNVOTES Chief RUm (7) ***
(611) Blade votes Alan (1)
(616) Sublime votes Lathum (7)
(625) Spleen votes Chief Rum (8)
(700) Lonestargirl votes Chief Rum (9)
(704) Tyrith UNVOTES Lathum (6) ***
(704) Tyrith votes Swaggs (1)
(707) BrianD UNVOTES Spleen (0) ***
(707) BrianD votes Lathum (7)
(708) Mr.Wednesday UNVOTES Lathum (6) ***
(708) Mr.Wednesday votes Chief Rum (10)
(712) DaddyTorgo votes Lathum (7)
(738) Izulde UNVOTES Blade (0) ***
(738) Izulde votes Chief Rum (11)
(752) Dodgerchick votes Chief Rum (12)
(758) Kwhit UNVOTES Lathum (6) ***
(758) Kwhit votes Chief Rum (13)
(765) Kwhit UNVOTES Chief Rum (12) ***
(765) Kwhit votes Lathum (7)

[Chief Rum]

Well, shoot. I guess I get one post to say goodbye.

After reading through all of this today, all I can say is, more than half of you are complete doofuses (doofi?) and deserve to lose if you're good (and applauded if you're bad, since, of course, you would want me dead).

This must be how the mob mentality works--get something so flimsy as to be as transparant as glass, and then all the sheep jump on to "make sure we get a lynch."

The one guy who stated a "reason" was Alan, and even he screwed it up, confusing my post questioning saldana's motives as somehow support for him. One does not equal the other, Alan.

Oh well, I'm rooting for evil, in which ever way it comes. Good did me no good.

Toodles, kiddos.

[Blade6119]

Sorry you had to go chief, i wish you had been around to help defend yourself. Have a good one

[st.cronin]

Schmidty, Lathum, and Izulde stood out as potentially wolfish votes, to me at least.

[Blade6119]

Dola, i do find it odd that the two sides of the alan/chief and blade/saldana debate ended up disjointed today.

Salanda and Alan being the first two votes on chief(and the reason most followed), while i said i thought he was good, and chief obviously would have supported that view.

Just ironic

[Jonathan Ezarik]

st.cronin,

I know you have LoneStarGirl in your circle of truth, but is there a reason for that other than her early vote against Scoobz?

[st.cronin]

st.cronin,

I know you have LoneStarGirl in your circle of truth, but is there a reason for that other than her early vote against Scoobz?

no

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Why put faith in a random selection like that?

[st.cronin]

Why put faith in a random selection like that?

As I said, it's just a starting point. There are some other people I have varying degrees of trust in, based on things they have said or done. Right now nobody is ironclad in my circle, and I'm not willing to bet the house that anybody is bad.

[Izulde]

Schmidty, Lathum, and Izulde stood out as potentially wolfish votes, to me at least.

Why? Because my personal philosophy is it's better to get a lynch and have a percentage chance, however low, that we hit a bad guy like we did on Day One than completely give the bad guys a pass?

Like I said, the chance of potentially getting another bad guy with a lynch that's the only reason I switched off of Blade.

Low % > 0%

[Abe Sargent]

A clear night sky turns into a clear dawn as the cock crows. Some of you begin to awaken and dress yourselves. As you are on the way to break the evening fast, you hear a scream come from a side road near the Inn of the Dancing Pony.

You all head in the direction of the scream, and come across the body of Antalia Daverheft. Her body is lying in the dirt face down, with around a dozen stab wounds on her lower back. The mess looks a little less messy then yesterday’s overkill. Is the killer getting better at the job or is this the work of a new villain?

You gather together before breakfast at a hole dug for a new post. You decide to use it as a quick burial location and say a few words. With little taste for food you head back to her room at the Inn of the Dancing Pony. Here you discover a variety of tools and equipment.

A local maid is there cleaning up the room, and after some questioning, you find that Antalia was rather open with the maid. Apparently, Antalia was an adventurer that had come here to explore and find rewards in the Barrow Downs. You can find nothing that relates her to any faction, an in fact, there is no appearance that she even belonged to a side.

After having done a lot of work for the morn, you fill yourselves with food and reassemble to begin a new day of deliberations.

SnDvls has been killed

Day Three has begun and will end at 10:00 pm EST Wednesday Evening.



-Anxiety

[DaddyTorgo]

"shoot" we lost another one! grrrrr.

*bedtime*

[Sublime 2]

It says she wasn't on either side, so am I to take that SnDvls was a person with his own victory conditions?

[Grammaticus]

It says she wasn't on either side, so am I to take that SnDvls was a person with his own victory conditions?

That is what it looks like.

From the rules post:

For those who may not be aligned with a faction, they will have their own victory conditions spelled out in their role pm.

Anxiety, what do the different colors on the roster mean?

[Grammaticus]

dola,

To add to that, it does not say SnDvls was on the side of light or the town. That indicates SnDvls does not count for light in the overwhelm ratio. So DaddyTorgo, I'm not sure we lost another one. This may have been one of the best things that could happen on a night kill, short of one bad faction killing the other.

[Alan T]

That is what it looks like.

From the rules post:



Anxiety, what do the different colors on the roster mean?

From what I can tell it looks like the colors signify either what side or what faction that they belong to. This takes us back to the discussion from yesterday and muddies the waters a bit more I think as for what allegiance Scoobz was. It very clearly seems to show that Sndvls was his own individual, he was not on the side of light or dark. So that then makes me wonder again about Scoobz.

Either people can have allegiances to light or dark that are independant of being in a faction (ie: alignment), or Scoobz was in a faction and when deaths occur to people in say Saruman's faction their death is spelled out a bit differently.

It appears that Sndvls was indeed completely neutral and independant, whereas Scoobz at the least had an alignment.

[Lathum]

You seem to think anyone making any sort of actual argument against you is wolfish today.

of course I do, I know I am a simple villegar.

[Lathum]

I'm off to work but will be back long before deadline.

If St.Cronin and Tyrith want to continue to lead the charge against me thats fine but the only thing you will get is voting records.

I am just a normal villegar and have no defense or exciting role reveal.

[Lorena]

Well, shoot. I guess I get one post to say goodbye.

After reading through all of this today, all I can say is, more than half of you are complete doofuses (doofi?) and deserve to lose if you're good (and applauded if you're bad, since, of course, you would want me dead).

This must be how the mob mentality works--get something so flimsy as to be as transparant as glass, and then all the sheep jump on to "make sure we get a lynch."

The one guy who stated a "reason" was Alan, and even he screwed it up, confusing my post questioning saldana's motives as somehow support for him. One does not equal the other, Alan.

Oh well, I'm rooting for evil, in which ever way it comes. Good did me no good.

Toodles, kiddos.

This is a downright insult. I'm so sick of people saying no-lynch is better than lynching a villager but how in god's green earth can we find out whose bad until we get a lynch? With that mentality, we'll never lynch anyone until a seer comes out and posts a list of who they scanned, by then, it's game over, villagers lose.

Fine, if that's what ya'll want, then so be it.

vote schmidty


Vote Rum Chief

His vote on CR was suspicious as he only voted with no explanation and hasn't posted since. Now that we find out CR was good, we have something to go off of.

I'm off for a few hours.

[Lorena]

I should add that I wanted to vote for Schmidty yesterday but the way the votes were towards the end, I felt I HAD to vote for CR so as to get some info. Hope CR's death comes to our benefit.

[SnDvls]

damn I I keep getting night killed
I hope it's a respect thing, but dying by night 2 is really starting to suck

[st.cronin]

vote Lathum

I hope somebody has something better.

[Thomkal]

Good morning all.

Yeah it sucks that we didn't get a bad guy in the lynch, but for me at least we had next to nothing to go on with either Lathum or Chief Rum yesterday, or anyone else for that matter. Thus it was much like a day 1 vote for me.

At first I thought St. Cronin had brought up some interesting points about Lathum, but as the day passed I just saw Lathum as a villager more and more. I would have voted for Lathum had he been the one in the lead at the time of my vote though because that's all it was-a feeling. I had no definite proof he was a villager. Same with Chief Rum. Hopefully some one will come forward with some evidence or info we can use in the vote today.

[saldana]

damn I I keep getting night killed
I hope it's a respect thing, but dying by night 2 is really starting to suck

i feel your pain

[saldana]

Well, shoot. I guess I get one post to say goodbye.

After reading through all of this today, all I can say is, more than half of you are complete doofuses (doofi?) and deserve to lose if you're good (and applauded if you're bad, since, of course, you would want me dead).

This must be how the mob mentality works--get something so flimsy as to be as transparant as glass, and then all the sheep jump on to "make sure we get a lynch."

The one guy who stated a "reason" was Alan, and even he screwed it up, confusing my post questioning saldana's motives as somehow support for him. One does not equal the other, Alan.

Oh well, I'm rooting for evil, in which ever way it comes. Good did me no good.

Toodles, kiddos.

dude....its werewolf.....people die.....you dont get to live to the end of every game....if i cried everytime i got killed, i would spend more time whining than i did playing....get over it, or dont play.

[st.cronin]

At first I thought St. Cronin had brought up some interesting points about Lathum, but as the day passed I just saw Lathum as a villager more and more.

I believe several people have specifically said that they thought Lathum was acting like a villager. I would be interested in specifics.

[Thomkal]

I believe several people have specifically said that they thought Lathum was acting like a villager. I would be interested in specifics.

I don't have any specifics for you. It was just his general tone and the way he defended himself as the day wore on that made me feel he might be a villager. Just the feeling I got from reading his responses. I could be wrong, wouldnt be the first time, won't be the last. :)

[Tyrith]

I believe several people have specifically said that they thought Lathum was acting like a villager. I would be interested in specifics.

Blade mentioned that this isn't what Lathum acts like when he's bad, this is how he acts when he and Lathum get into villager/villager fights. That said, Lathum has been bad so much now that it wouldn't surprise me if he's learned new tricks, especially since the last game went poorly for him.

My main deal with Lathum is that you can't take every argument made against you as wolfish if you're just a vanilla. Some of them have logic behind them. Some of them don't. Attack the content of the argument, not the fact that the argument exists, because just blaming people because they're voting for you gets nowhere.

All this said, I'm not voting early. We're giving the bad guys a nice, easy way to not have to show any kind independent thought and get caught. Let someone else make the wake today and see if it changes things.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Schmidty, Lathum, and Izulde stood out as potentially wolfish votes, to me at least.

How so? In terms of how the vote was cast, or when it was cast?

I disagree on Lathum, FWIW, because even at the point where he voted, he was picking up votes and looking like the alternate candidate to Chief Rum. I think you're seeing what you want to see there.

In terms of when the vote was cast, I would also throw out Thomkal as one who cast a middle-of-the-pack vote on Chief Rum.

[Schmidty]

I just woke up, and I won't have time to catch up on things until later this morning (about 2 hours or so from now).

[Schmidty]

Before I go for ahwile, I need to make sure you all know (especially Dodgerchick), that any vote for me is a total and utter waste. Not just because of the obvious fact that I'm good guy, but also for another, MUCH more important reason.

[Alan T]

Before I go for ahwile, I need to make sure you all know (especially Dodgerchick), that any vote for me is a total and utter waste. Not just because of the obvious fact that I'm good guy, but also for another, MUCH more important reason.

Comments like this would make me think one would attract all kinds of attention from the people you don't want attention from. If you are good, comments like this will have the bad guys looking into you at night and if you are bad, comments like this will have the good guys wondering what in the world you mean and probably put pressure on you.

In a game like this with multiple factions, I forsee you getting a bit of both.

[Izulde]

While I'm still suspicious of Blade, I've been suspicious of LoneStarGirl, too. Normally she's much more talkative and active in games and she's been virtually silent in this one.

Such a move, especially for a newerish player like her, usually indicates a baddie in the woodworks and makes me suspicious of her than of Blade, so my vote goes to her.

VOTE LONESTARGIRL

[Jonathan Ezarik]

All this said, I'm not voting early. We're giving the bad guys a nice, easy way to not have to show any kind independent thought and get caught. Let someone else make the wake today and see if it changes things.

I don't understand this. I thought that by voting we would force people into talking. If we wait until closer to deadline to start with our votes, what's to prevent the bad guys from just lying low all day?

[Thomkal]

How so? In terms of how the vote was cast, or when it was cast?

I disagree on Lathum, FWIW, because even at the point where he voted, he was picking up votes and looking like the alternate candidate to Chief Rum. I think you're seeing what you want to see there.

In terms of when the vote was cast, I would also throw out Thomkal as one who cast a middle-of-the-pack vote on Chief Rum.

Actually I would look more at those who voted for Chief Rum near the end of voting. My reasoning here is that if Lathum is evil, (which I don't think he is), there are likely some evil votes on Chief Rum at the end of his votes. Because they were trying to protect Lathum since the voting was beginning to get close. But not knowing if Lathum is evil or not kinda makes it a moot point.

[Alan T]

I don't understand this. I thought that by voting we would force people into talking. If we wait until closer to deadline to start with our votes, what's to prevent the bad guys from just lying low all day?

Well to be honest, both days so far I was the second person to put a vote out for someone and gave pretty detailed reasons why I was voting that person. And both days I watched a ton of others jump on without much reasoning and see the person to be lynched.

I'm not horribly upset with the results of the lynches, I will take 50% any day when it doesn't involve a valuable good person role, but that was mostly due to luck more than anything else.

Please excuse me if I choose to wait a bit today too so others don't just decide that they'll take the easy way out.

[Tyrith]

I don't understand this. I thought that by voting we would force people into talking. If we wait until closer to deadline to start with our votes, what's to prevent the bad guys from just lying low all day?

Because then they're actually lying low and they can't make really bad arguments like "we have to make a lynch!" to disguise votes for good guys. The way it stands now we usually wind up with the same people getting the discussion going every day followed by the same people following in their wake every day. I say we give them a chance to be front runners and if they don't take it we start putting the heat on them. Without any hard evidence we're looking at another day like yesterday where a talkative player just picks a candidate and everyone falls into line.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

While I'm still suspicious of Blade, I've been suspicious of LoneStarGirl, too. Normally she's much more talkative and active in games and she's been virtually silent in this one.

Such a move, especially for a newerish player like her, usually indicates a baddie in the woodworks and makes me suspicious of her than of Blade, so my vote goes to her.

I'm suspicious of her, too. If we are going to be looking at under the radar players, she tops my list. I should add that I'm suspicious of st.cronin's defending her only based on her vote for Scoobz.

[Tyrith]

Well to be honest, both days so far I was the second person to put a vote out for someone and gave pretty detailed reasons why I was voting that person. And both days I watched a ton of others jump on without much reasoning and see the person to be lynched.

I'm not horribly upset with the results of the lynches, I will take 50% any day when it doesn't involve a valuable good person role, but that was mostly due to luck more than anything else.

Please excuse me if I choose to wait a bit today too so others don't just decide that they'll take the easy way out.

I really don't want you to put in an earlier vote today especially because you've done it the last two days. We need to see someone else take point just so we know what more about what we're dealing with.

[Alan T]

Actually I would look more at those who voted for Chief Rum near the end of voting. My reasoning here is that if Lathum is evil, (which I don't think he is), there are likely some evil votes on Chief Rum at the end of his votes. Because they were trying to protect Lathum since the voting was beginning to get close. But not knowing if Lathum is evil or not kinda makes it a moot point.

I am of two trains of thought here. There are a few scenerios here:

1) Both Chief and Lathum are good, and people who are in Saruman or Sauron's forces know these two aren't on their side at least. How would they have acted yesterday?

2) Chief is good, Lathum is bad, how would the people on Lathum's side in this scenerio have acted yesterday?

3) Chief is good, Lathum is independant, in this case I would think bad guys would have acted similar to #1 above.

I'm not entirely sure that I found Lathum's actions super fishy and for perhaps the first time in the game I agree with Blade that I have seen lathum act much differently as a wolf. Lathum usually is much more reserved in the early going as a wolf, is a bit more passive agressive and here I feel he has been at least more involved today.

[Grammaticus]

I believe several people have specifically said that they thought Lathum was acting like a villager. I would be interested in specifics.

Okay, I think the following are subtle reasons, but they add up to me keeping Lathum in my likely good column. I think lynching him is a wasted lynch and will kill a good guy.

· Lathum indicated he thought Blade was of no harm to the village. At this point in the game, I get the same feeling
· He points out Tyrith’s swap from Lathum to Swaggs as odd. That was weird and I thought so too, again good vibe.
· Suggests evaluating some of the people who are not voting for CR or Lathum, I agree that is not a bad idea
· He points out having a close race is beneficial to see who moves, etc. Sound good guy logic
· If he were on the dark side, I do not think he would say he thought there was a failed conversion. Supports being good, but still possibly knowing more. Actually I think the old man is just telling a story about tombstone. Sometimes it is hard to get a recent game out of your head
· Asks st.cronin about his odd post about saldana and CR, which st.cronin has not answered, although it has been asked by Lathum, Blade and myself
· His posts support that we need to lynch in order to win and consolidating votes on a few candidates is a good strategy – very pro villager
· Indicates we should swing votes to 2 or 3 candidates to get more than 2 or 3 votes on one person. 2 or 3 votes is not enough heat to matter

[Izulde]

I'm suspicious of her, too. If we are going to be looking at under the radar players, she tops my list. I should add that I'm suspicious of st.cronin's defending her only based on her vote for Scoobz.

Despite his fingering me, I'm not too suspicious of st. cronin right now, but this time I'm sticking with my LSG vote. The more I think about it, the more I'm certain she's a baddy.

[BrianD]

I have been a little bit suspicious of St.Cronin and all of his arguments against lynching people. I can understand that he wants us to learn from lynches and he doesn't think we are, but the way this game is structured, we don't really have a choice. The only thing that makes me hesitant about this is that he is so vehement about us doing the wrong things. If he is bad, I'd expect him to try to plant some seeds about not wanting us to lynch without being so forceful.

I also find it interesting that Grammaticus and Izulde both talked about players who are good votes because they are uncharacteristically quiet this game. I didn't find Chief Rum to be unusually quiet, and I don't find LSG to be unusually quiet. They seemed/seem to be talking about as much as usual. I'm thinking about taking a closer look at Izulde at the moment.

[Alan T]

Hmm, I am not sure that I have paid a bunch of attention to Lonestargirl this game one way or another. Most of that is probably likely due to being in my bomb shelter alot of this game. I fear I don't have a good take on many of the people who are more or less UtR. I know in the small game just recently done, I felt she was a wolf (and was right) on day 1 just from how super involved and her reactions to some of the wolf moves that were made.

So far this game Lonestargirl has done a complete 180 from the last game where she was a wolf. She has been much less involved, and I don't really remember too many places where she came out with a new thought rather than just adding to current discussion. So I guess she seems to be acting differently than last game, but I dunno guess that doesn't mean much since last game didn't end too well for her.

I guess what I'm trying to say is LSG hasn't really pinged my radar any, but I would say she is one of the UtR folks. (which we have a few of)

[Izulde]

Well I'm just going based on the experiences of the games where I've been involved in LSG. She's never been that quiet that I can recall, which to me is baddieish.

[Tyrith]

Has LSG ever been bad besides in the aborted, messed up Short Game 2?

[Alan T]

Has LSG ever been bad besides in the aborted, messed up Short Game 2?

Not that I am aware of. That was what she always said every game how she wished she got to actually be bad for once since she was always a vanilla good guy role.

[Izulde]

As somebody, I think Mr. W?, pointed out earlier in the thread, past designations of good-bad don't count. Every game is completely new.

[BrianD]

As somebody, I think Mr. W?, pointed out earlier in the thread, past designations of good-bad don't count. Every game is completely new.

True, but playing styles do count.

[Izulde]

True, but playing styles do count.

Good point and like I said, her play style is so opposite what I've normally seen that it seems to me to say baddie, especially if she's been villager so often, i.e. trying to stay as low as possible so she can enjoy being baddie for as long as she can.

[spleen1015]

Looking at voting records, the following people have voted for someone other than the lynchee on both days:

ntndeacon
Tyrith
Swaggs
Blade
st.cronin
Chief Rum

Chief has already been lynched, proven good. With 5 people left in that group, I believe that there is a least 1, possibly 2 dark folk in that group. ntndeacon, Swaggs and st.cronin all voted for Lathum yesterday during the 2 player run off, so I don't suspect them at this point. Blade has voted for Alan both days and I haven't gotten a bad vibe from him this game.

That leaves Tyrith. Both of his votes were for people no where near the running for the lynch. I think this is a good place to hide if I'm a bad guy. So, this will be my basis for voting for him today.

Vote Tyrith

[Sublime 2]

On Tyrith

I did notice that while we were making the two horse race, he backed off of Lathum to vote for Swaggs. I haven't gone back to check if there was a reason or not, but at first glance it looked fishy.

[Sublime 2]

The way Lathum took my arguments makes me think he's bad, or he's playing sloppy like he accused me of. He's still very high on my watch list...that said, the way Swaggs is playing now is making me even more suspicious, and since Lathum isn't gonna get lynched tonight I'm switching.

UNVOTE LATHUM
VOTE SWAGGS

Ok, here was his reasoning. I'm still not sure I buy it, because at that point I thought we were trying to push Lathum and CR to see what people did.

[Swaggs]

Looking at voting records, the following people have voted for someone other than the lynchee on both days:

ntndeacon
Tyrith
Swaggs
Blade
st.cronin
Chief Rum

Chief has already been lynched, proven good. With 5 people left in that group, I believe that there is a least 1, possibly 2 dark folk in that group. ntndeacon, Swaggs and st.cronin all voted for Lathum yesterday during the 2 player run off, so I don't suspect them at this point. Blade has voted for Alan both days and I haven't gotten a bad vibe from him this game.

That leaves Tyrith. Both of his votes were for people no where near the running for the lynch. I think this is a good place to hide if I'm a bad guy. So, this will be my basis for voting for him today.

Vote Tyrith

Better recheck your list. I can't speak for the other names on your list, but I don't think there was much of a point to putting Chief on it and I voted for Scoobz on Day 1 (post #350).

I think you may be trying to muddy the waters, as this looks like a pretty useless list to me right now.

[DaddyTorgo]

hmmmm hmmmm

[spleen1015]

Better recheck your list. I can't speak for the other names on your list, but I don't think there was much of a point to putting Chief on it and I voted for Scoobz on Day 1 (post #350).

I think you may be trying to muddy the waters, as this looks like a pretty useless list to me right now.

I have you voting for ntndeacon on Day 1. I need to go back and recheck. I rely on other folks to give the voting break downs. So, I could be wrong.

[Tyrith]

Looking at voting records, the following people have voted for someone other than the lynchee on both days:

ntndeacon
Tyrith
Swaggs
Blade
st.cronin
Chief Rum

Chief has already been lynched, proven good. With 5 people left in that group, I believe that there is a least 1, possibly 2 dark folk in that group. ntndeacon, Swaggs and st.cronin all voted for Lathum yesterday during the 2 player run off, so I don't suspect them at this point. Blade has voted for Alan both days and I haven't gotten a bad vibe from him this game.

That leaves Tyrith. Both of his votes were for people no where near the running for the lynch. I think this is a good place to hide if I'm a bad guy. So, this will be my basis for voting for him today.

Vote Tyrith

It's such a good place to hide that you immediately fingered me. That logic doesn't work.

[Lorena]

I have you voting for ntndeacon on Day 1. I need to go back and recheck. I rely on other folks to give the voting break downs. So, I could be wrong.

Post 350 swaggs voted for scoobz

[Tyrith]

Ok, here was his reasoning. I'm still not sure I buy it, because at that point I thought we were trying to push Lathum and CR to see what people did.

At that point the Lathum lynch really didn't have much momentum behind it. As bad as the reasoning was for CR it was worse for Lathum, where people were just voting for him for the sake of making it a race...and that push was dying as the focus became on getting a lynch of a lynch's sake. I don't believe in that kind of lynch, so I wasn't voting for CR. Swaggs kept insisting that the day 1 vote meant something, and I strongly disagree with that concept. Was Swaggs thought process a wolf move? Not necessarily, but the wolves could push us to look at the day 1 vote record because they know it will be in their favor. Thus the vote.

[spleen1015]

It's such a good place to hide that you immediately fingered me. That logic doesn't work.

I know there are going to be people who shoot holes all over it. I am prepared for that and I don't care. I am trying to use the information at hand.

I'm pretty confident that there is a dark person hiding within that group, so this is the way I am going today. I fully expect you to challenge me since I want you lynched today. You asked for someone else to get the vote ball rolling today.

I have been right about who I think are wolves in past games more than I have been wrong.

Swaggs shouldn't be a part of this group, btw. He is correct. He moved his vote from ntn to scoobz.

[Alan T]

Just trying to break up the votes in any kind of patterns that i can find.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Early votes from the day. Saldana voted Chief back which I suppose is a common move regardless of allegiance. Izulde and JE both throw out early votes on people of their choice with their reasonings. I guess I would be curious if either of these two still feel the same way about their votes and if not, why?

Only other note here is Sndvls voted for St.Cronin early here, where St.Cronin had voted for Sndvls the day before. Both times without much fanfare or discussion though.

(446) Chief rum votes Saldana (1)
(482) Saldana votes Chief Rum (1)
(484) Izulde votes Blade (1)
(501) Jonathan Ezarik votes Daddy Torgo (1)
(504) Alan votes Chief Rum (2)
(532) Sndvls votes St.Cronin (1)
-------------------------------------------------------------
We see here the bandwagon start to form on Chief Rum with Schmidty's vote (without any explanation what so ever). Brian tosses out a vote for Spleen and once again I'm curious if Brian still feels the same way about Spleen or if his feelings have changed. If so, why?

Then an interesting thing happens the votes for Lathum start to come in with first St.Cronin and then Tyrith. From what I remember without looking back, the reasoning was he jumped onto the same story that others had used to vote for Chief and it seemed suspicious. My question though is why vote Lathum here? Why Lathum over Schmidty who made the same vote before Lathum without any explanation whatsoever?

(552) Schmidty votes Chief Rum (3)
(554) BrianD votes Spleen (1)
(555) Lathum votes Chief Rum (4)
(557) St.Cronin votes Lathum (1)
(565) Tyrith votes Lathum (2)
-----------------------------------------
This next group of votes is where the bandwagon for Chief picks up alot of steam and goes way in the lead, appearing to be a runaway. In the middle is Mr.W's vote for Lathum which if I remember right was to try to keep things close in a two horse race.

(574) Blade votes Chief Rum (5)
(577) Jonathan Ezarik UNVOTES Daddy Torgo (0) ***
(577) Jonathan Ezarik votes Chief Rum (6)
(583) Mr.Wednesday votes Lathum (3)
(585) Thomkal votes Chief Rum (7)
(593) Grammaticus votes Chief Rum (8)
----------------------------------------------------------------
After Chief gets a pretty huge lead, the momentum reverses itself and we see a clump of voters on Lathum to bring him back closer again (8-6)


(594) Swaggs votes Lathum (4)
(595) Ntndeacon votes Lathum (5)
(607) Kwhit votes Lathum (6)
--------------------------------------------------------
Next votes put it into a dead heat 7-7

(611) Blade UNVOTES Chief RUm (7) ***
(611) Blade votes Alan (1)
(616) Sublime votes Lathum (7)
--------------------------------------------------
Spleen voted for Chief which then made it a 1 vote difference which lasted for a while until we saw in a very short time Lonestargirl vote for Chief as well as Tyrith and Mr.W unvote for Lathum which basically decided the race. In the middle of this BrianD appeared to have returned to the thread as well as Daddytorgo both voting for Lathum, but it still was pretty big gap at this point. (10-7)

(625) Spleen votes Chief Rum (8)
(700) Lonestargirl votes Chief Rum (9)
(704) Tyrith UNVOTES Lathum (6) ***
(704) Tyrith votes Swaggs (1)
(707) BrianD UNVOTES Spleen (0) ***
(707) BrianD votes Lathum (7)
(708) Mr.Wednesday UNVOTES Lathum (6) ***
(708) Mr.Wednesday votes Chief Rum (10)
(712) DaddyTorgo votes Lathum (7)
----------------------------------------------------------------
The ending we had Izulde moving his vote to be a participant in the lynch and Dodgerchick putting the last vote on to cinch the lynch. We also see Kwhit do last minute flipflopping which to me seemed quite odd, but I already had distrust of Kwhit before this move.


(738) Izulde UNVOTES Blade (0) ***
(738) Izulde votes Chief Rum (11)
(752) Dodgerchick votes Chief Rum (12)
(758) Kwhit UNVOTES Lathum (6) ***
(758) Kwhit votes Chief Rum (13)
(765) Kwhit UNVOTES Chief Rum (12) ***
(765) Kwhit votes Lathum (7)

[Tyrith]

Eventually you all will have to realize that being a little loose with ideas is just how I play. I like to throw a lot of stuff out there like some of the other people in this game, and I can play a little crazy. I'm not afraid to think outside the box when the box is wrong and is hurting us. Please don't confuse my natural style with acting like a wolf -- and really, would a wolf be THIS stupid without a history to back it up (aka Alan can get away with it, I might not)?

[DaddyTorgo]

what about KWhit?

[Tyrith]

I know there are going to be people who shoot holes all over it. I am prepared for that and I don't care. I am trying to use the information at hand.

I'm pretty confident that there is a dark person hiding within that group, so this is the way I am going today. I fully expect you to challenge me since I want you lynched today. You asked for someone else to get the vote ball rolling today.

I have been right about who I think are wolves in past games more than I have been wrong.

Swaggs shouldn't be a part of this group, btw. He is correct. He moved his vote from ntn to scoobz.

You do realize that you could pick any group of five people left in the game and there is probably a bad guy in the group, right? I don't specifically care about you voting for me, but I don't want other people following you based on faulty logic.

Oh, and furthermore, in general -- if I was a bad guy and saw the CR lynch developing yesterday why wouldn't I just go ahead and come up with some BS reason to vote for him? Voting for Lathum should actually be the less suspicious of the two votes right now because we know the guy he was running against was good. By the same logic that sndvls, alan, and...LSG was it? who got minor trust points on Day 1, Alan, saldana, Lathum, and Schmidty should have minor trust points deducted for yesterday.

[Alan T]

Eventually you all will have to realize that being a little loose with ideas is just how I play. I like to throw a lot of stuff out there like some of the other people in this game, and I can play a little crazy. I'm not afraid to think outside the box when the box is wrong and is hurting us. Please don't confuse my natural style with acting like a wolf -- and really, would a wolf be THIS stupid without a history to back it up (aka Alan can get away with it, I might not)?

I'm not sure if this is a passive agressive compliment to get people to suspect me, or an insult to how when I'm wrong I am often wrong big :)

[Blade6119]

Has LSG ever been bad besides in the aborted, messed up Short Game 2?

Was the small game that just finished the one your referring to(i thought it was #3 or 4)? I dont think it is, since we won and it was never aborted, and if not then she was bad that game as well(where she was pretty damn quiet, but so were cronin and ntndeacon who were good)

[Tyrith]

The reason I voted for Lathum was his vote combined with the whole discussion about a failed conversion that cronin picked up on. The two combined made him a slightly better candidate.

[Blade6119]

I'm not sure if this is a passive agressive compliment to get people to suspect me, or an insult to how when I'm wrong I am often wrong big :)
I think hes saying if you pulled some tricks out of the hat and got caught, people will give you the benefit of the doubt for your experience. I believe he is claiming similar moves by him would get him lynched.

[Tyrith]

I'm not sure if this is a passive agressive compliment to get people to suspect me, or an insult to how when I'm wrong I am often wrong big :)

Nah, it's just referring to the fact that you can do crazy stuff and get away with it because hey, it's Alan, he always does crazy stuff :)

[Alan T]

Tyrith, if you dont mind, since you are in this thread and St.Cronin isn't... One question I have is why did you all go after Lathum yesterday and not Schmidty? Looking back at how the vote progressed and what I remember of the conversation without going back to re-read it Schmidty seemed a much more suspicious move to me than Lathum's vote did.

I'm just curious why you all overlooked Schmidty there?

[Tyrith]

Was the small game that just finished the one your referring to(i thought it was #3 or 4)? I dont think it is, since we won and it was never aborted, and if not then she was bad that game as well(where she was pretty damn quiet, but so were cronin and ntndeacon who were good)

Football Tryouts was Small Game 2.

[Alan T]

Was the small game that just finished the one your referring to(i thought it was #3 or 4)? I dont think it is, since we won and it was never aborted, and if not then she was bad that game as well(where she was pretty damn quiet, but so were cronin and ntndeacon who were good)

LSG was quiet at the end after they were busted, but remember the first day. She was a chatty kathy and that was the behavior that made me vote for her the first two days. It was I felt uncharacteristic of her normal behavior. I feel she is more quiet this game than she was that game.

[BrianD]

Alan, I didn't necessarily have good reason to vote for Spleen. After his talk about never being killed and all of the noise from the last game, I figured he was as good a random vote as anyone. I voted for him again the second day since I wanted to see some votes out and people talking. Usually when I throw out a random vote, I like to stick with it until a better candidate is revealed.

[Blade6119]

Football Tryouts was Small Game 2.

No, it was not...not unless you count the rookie games as something else, because their was the one bek got someone lynched, cant remember who, and they accused me of cheating by giving him help. Their was the game where gramat fake revealed duke to counter my real claim and won, and there was the one where we just won over lathum, LSG, and neuqua

[Tyrith]

Tyrith, if you dont mind, since you are in this thread and St.Cronin isn't... One question I have is why did you all go after Lathum yesterday and not Schmidty? Looking back at how the vote progressed and what I remember of the conversation without going back to re-read it Schmidty seemed a much more suspicious move to me than Lathum's vote did.

I'm just curious why you all overlooked Schmidty there?

I picked up the suspicious vibe on Schmidty, but he wasn't going to be around either (part of the reason I didn't want to vote for Chief Rum) and Lathum just seemed to be copying the logic saldana used without trying to add to it, which was just odd. And then the thing that cronin talked about, with that discussion of conversions and such.

On that note, at this point it seems like you might be right on the Saruman group not having a kill, or at best they alternate kills. But it seems like one kill a night might be the norm.

[Tyrith]

No, it was not...not unless you count the rookie games as something else, because their was the one bek got someone lynched, cant remember who, and they accused me of cheating by giving him help. Their was the game where gramat fake revealed duke to counter my real claim and won, and there was the one where we just won over lathum, LSG, and neuqua

The _thread title_ calls it Small Game II.

[Sublime 2]

The reason I voted for Lathum was his vote combined with the whole discussion about a failed conversion that cronin picked up on. The two combined made him a slightly better candidate.

So why didn't you keep your vote then? Before you said that the reasoning for voting Lathum was worse than the reasoning for CR. But doesn't that contradict this post?

[Blade6119]

Oh, and cronin, since you asked about lathum another reason for me is i always have a harder time voting for players ive had fights with. I tend to avoid voting lathum, schmidty, realdeal, etc. unless i feel they are by far the best canidate. If their equal with another, i tend to try and avoid them getting into a hissy fit and starting round 2 with me.

[Blade6119]

The _thread title_ calls it Small Game II.

The_Thread_Title_Is_Wrong.

We had a number problem with the big games too..go by facts, do some research on it and you will find im right on both accounts.

[Tyrith]

My whole point about LSG is that she isn't someone who I have a lot of experience about reading. I don't know if we can categorize her behavior this game as different because she's a wolf or different because of various other reasons. If she has been a wolf in a large game we could use that as a test against her behavior now. I don't really want to count Football Tryouts because the game was small, there wasn't a lot of talking, and the game became stupid starting Day 4.

[Alan T]

The reason I voted for Lathum was his vote combined with the whole discussion about a failed conversion that cronin picked up on. The two combined made him a slightly better candidate.

Hmm ok, I remember that part. The talk about the failed conversion made me curious as well, but in the end i think he was just telling a short story about tombstone and moved on. Keeping in mind he was the one doing the converting in tombstone and he had direct experience with getting blocked day 1.

I don't think i really agree with him about the signs pointing to a failed conversion, but after his explanation I didnt think as much of it.

[Tyrith]

So why didn't you keep your vote then? Before you said that the reasoning for voting Lathum was worse than the reasoning for CR. But doesn't that contradict this post?

Because I didn't switch to CR, I switched to Swaggs, whose continued insistence on the value of the first two days voting I _strongly_ disagreed with. If Lathum wasn't going to get lynched over CR then I wanted to use my vote to do something productive -- creating pressure and conversation. Which it did, so I'm pretty happy with it.

[Tyrith]

Hmm ok, I remember that part. The talk about the failed conversion made me curious as well, but in the end i think he was just telling a short story about tombstone and moved on. Keeping in mind he was the one doing the converting in tombstone and he had direct experience with getting blocked day 1.

I don't think i really agree with him about the signs pointing to a failed conversion, but after his explanation I didnt think as much of it.

Yeah, it wasn't really much, but we didn't have that much to go on yesterday. At this point it's something that I'm mostly going to let drop. Yesterday seems like a fiasco in general.

[spleen1015]

You do realize that you could pick any group of five people left in the game and there is probably a bad guy in the group, right? I don't specifically care about you voting for me, but I don't want other people following you based on faulty logic.

I don't care about any other groups of 5. I think looking at the group of folks who haven't voted for either of then 2 lynch victims is a good place to start looking for someone on the dark side. After that, it's just using my judgement to find the one I want to vote for.

The reason why I went this way is because looking at the folks who haven't voted for a lynchee narrows down the field quite a bit.

[Lorena]

I have been right about who I think are wolves in past games more than I have been wrong.

Ahem...


:p

[Tyrith]

I don't care about any other groups of 5. I think looking at the group of folks who haven't voted for either of then 2 lynch victims is a good place to start looking for someone on the dark side. After that, it's just using my judgement to find the one I want to vote for.

The reason why I went this way is because looking at the folks who haven't voted for a lynchee narrows down the field quite a bit.

Yes, but there are a lot of ways you could narrow the field. You could look at the first five people to vote for Rum (which is what I'm doing right now). You could look at the first five people to vote for Lathum. You could pick 5 names out of a hat. All of these would "narrow the field". Why this way? Why is it a good place to start looking? Not that I disagree with your choice of groups, by the way.

[spleen1015]

Ahem...


:p

Yeah, I was surprised when you turned up Umbrella. At least I was right about you not being on my side. :)

I nailed barkeep and hoops in the Tombstone game. I nailed Glen, path and Chief in the RE game. And I nailed LSG in the Football game. In my other 2 games, I didn't do much to help my side win. I was still getting my feet wet.

[spleen1015]

Yes, but there are a lot of ways you could narrow the field. You could look at the first five people to vote for Rum (which is what I'm doing right now). You could look at the first five people to vote for Lathum. You could pick 5 names out of a hat. All of these would "narrow the field". Why this way? Why is it a good place to start looking? Not that I disagree with your choice of groups, by the way.

It seems like the most logical place to look to me. With the need for so many votes to get a lynch, I feel this is the best place to start looking and the easiest way to find someone. Then, once the right person is found, the others will follow suit.

[DaddyTorgo]

i'm gonna hafta vote in the next hour and a half and then be gone until lynch and my head is spinning from all the options right now

[Sublime 2]

This is more of a place-holder vote than anything. I have class 230-4, and am possibly going to the Celtics game tonight. I still should be back here in plenty of time to change the vote, but just in case, and based primarily off of a pretty weak suspicion, but a suspicion none the less:

Vote Tyrith

[DaddyTorgo]

CNN calls MT for Tester with a 3k vote lead...1500 votes are all that's left to count

[DaddyTorgo]

whoops sorry. wrong tab guys

[DaddyTorgo]

aaargh i really have no good handle on who to vote for...and i want to decide in the next...hour and a half.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Actually I would look more at those who voted for Chief Rum near the end of voting. My reasoning here is that if Lathum is evil, (which I don't think he is), there are likely some evil votes on Chief Rum at the end of his votes. Because they were trying to protect Lathum since the voting was beginning to get close. But not knowing if Lathum is evil or not kinda makes it a moot point.
There's a lot of competing noise from the people who piled onto Chief Rum to make sure we had a lynch, unfortunately. :(

[Tyrith]

It seems like the most logical place to look to me. With the need for so many votes to get a lynch, I feel this is the best place to start looking and the easiest way to find someone. Then, once the right person is found, the others will follow suit.

But why is it the most logical place? You keep saying it's the best place to start, but why? What's the next level of thought here? That's the question I've been aiming at.

[Lorena]

I'm looking at voting records right now and sorted my filter to everyone that voted for Chief Rum (known good) and threw away a vote on Day 1 (someone other than scoobz who turned out bad). Scoobz (if my count is correct) had 15 votes at the end of the day, so I have doubts that a wolf would cast a vote on scoobz knowing it could be close (unless of course they were willing to sacrifice one of their own).

Mr. Wednesday, Schmidty, Spleen, and Thomkal meet the criteria. Mr. W and Spleen voted for Neuqua (spleen kept his vote) and Mr. W ended up voting for spleen, someone who wasn't in the running.

[DaddyTorgo]

I'm looking at voting records right now and sorted my filter to everyone that voted for Chief Rum (known good) and threw away a vote on Day 1 (someone other than scoobz who turned out bad). Scoobz (if my count is correct) had 15 votes at the end of the day, so I have doubts that a wolf would cast a vote on scoobz knowing it could be close (unless of course they were willing to sacrifice one of their own).

Mr. Wednesday, Schmidty, Spleen, and Thomkal meet the criteria. Mr. W and Spleen voted for Neuqua (spleen kept his vote) and Mr. W ended up voting for spleen, someone who wasn't in the running.

but don't forget that we're up against multiple "packs" of "wolves"

[Lorena]

Whoops, hit the submit button without finishing my thought.

3 out of the 4 people are pretty UTR which also makes me suspect them. Could they be some hiding amonst the CR votes? Maybe.

[st.cronin]

Okay, I think the following are subtle reasons, but they add up to me keeping Lathum in my likely good column. I think lynching him is a wasted lynch and will kill a good guy.

· Lathum indicated he thought Blade was of no harm to the village. At this point in the game, I get the same feeling
· He points out Tyrith’s swap from Lathum to Swaggs as odd. That was weird and I thought so too, again good vibe.
· Suggests evaluating some of the people who are not voting for CR or Lathum, I agree that is not a bad idea
· He points out having a close race is beneficial to see who moves, etc. Sound good guy logic
· If he were on the dark side, I do not think he would say he thought there was a failed conversion. Supports being good, but still possibly knowing more. Actually I think the old man is just telling a story about tombstone. Sometimes it is hard to get a recent game out of your head
· Asks st.cronin about his odd post about saldana and CR, which st.cronin has not answered, although it has been asked by Lathum, Blade and myself
· His posts support that we need to lynch in order to win and consolidating votes on a few candidates is a good strategy – very pro villager
· Indicates we should swing votes to 2 or 3 candidates to get more than 2 or 3 votes on one person. 2 or 3 votes is not enough heat to matter


I can understand some of those reasons, but I also want to point out that bad guys need lynches too. No lynch is, usually, worse for the bad guys than it is for the village.

[Mr. Wednesday]

1) Both Chief and Lathum are good, and people who are in Saruman or Sauron's forces know these two aren't on their side at least. How would they have acted yesterday?
I would expect them to vote in the middle of the day, probably scattering their vote. It keeps them involved in things, but avoids drawing unwanted attention for actually casting a deciding vote for a good guy.

2) Chief is good, Lathum is bad, how would the people on Lathum's side in this scenerio have acted yesterday?
I think the middle-of-the-day vote on Chief Rum makes the most sense here. Possibly one would have tried to hide a vote on Lathum as proof against a future reveal (in fact, this can work both ways) -- in this case, a close inspection of voting trends may be in order to determine whether such a vote would have felt a need to switch to CR to save Lathum.

[Tyrith]

I'm looking at voting records right now and sorted my filter to everyone that voted for Chief Rum (known good) and threw away a vote on Day 1 (someone other than scoobz who turned out bad). Scoobz (if my count is correct) had 15 votes at the end of the day, so I have doubts that a wolf would cast a vote on scoobz knowing it could be close (unless of course they were willing to sacrifice one of their own).

Mr. Wednesday, Schmidty, Spleen, and Thomkal meet the criteria. Mr. W and Spleen voted for Neuqua (spleen kept his vote) and Mr. W ended up voting for spleen, someone who wasn't in the running.

They might have cast a vote earlier on the day on the assumption that the vote would be closer than it was. It is much better for a wolf trying to have a good voting record to get the vote in early, rather that being a piler on at the end, so they might have done that and been forced to stick with it -- or more likely more votes for scoobz would have filled up the gap. I would have voted for him if I were here, for instance.

[Mr. Wednesday]

...Mr. W ended up voting for spleen, someone who wasn't in the running.

Look again, he was the closest we had to an alternative candidate. I was trying to fuel a two-horse race so that we could get more out of the vote.

[Lorena]

but don't forget that we're up against multiple "packs" of "wolves"

Oh yeah, totally. It was something that stood out. I mean for all I know they're all evil; it's hard to differentiate who is with who right now.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Dola, you'll probably have to look at during-the-day totals on day 1, because by the end most everyone had switched off spleen onto scoobz.

[spleen1015]

But why is it the most logical place? You keep saying it's the best place to start, but why? What's the next level of thought here? That's the question I've been aiming at.

It is most logical because of my judgement and the value I place on it , I guess.

[Tyrith]

I can understand some of those reasons, but I also want to point out that bad guys need lynches too. No lynch is, usually, worse for the bad guys than it is for the village.

This is true, because the village has a lot of warm bodies they have to burn through, they need to start torching people.

However, I've been thinking about this whole thing today. A lot of this isn't really relevant for this game anymore, but I'm putting it out there. The problem with the first two days is that we do need to be able to put pressure on people, to get them talking...we just don't need them dead at the end of the day. I don't know how to get around this problem.

[Tyrith]

It is most logical because of my judgement and the value I place on it , I guess.

What is the judgement and value? :) I really am being tacky on the logic here, feel free to stop responding whenever...if you dare... :)

[st.cronin]

I'm glad to see more productive discussion today, at least. It seems chaotic right now, but this will be much more productive than "I'm voting for the guy with the most votes to make sure we get a lynch."

[Alan T]

I've sat here most of the day trying to figure out where I would go with a vote. I have more people I suspect than fingers and need to narrow it down.

Out of curiosity, who does everyone think so far has been the most over the radar while producing the least meaningful discussion? Ie: Who has been creating a bunch of white noise that really leads us nowhere?

[Izulde]

I'm looking at voting records right now and sorted my filter to everyone that voted for Chief Rum (known good) and threw away a vote on Day 1 (someone other than scoobz who turned out bad). Scoobz (if my count is correct) had 15 votes at the end of the day, so I have doubts that a wolf would cast a vote on scoobz knowing it could be close (unless of course they were willing to sacrifice one of their own).

Mr. Wednesday, Schmidty, Spleen, and Thomkal meet the criteria. Mr. W and Spleen voted for Neuqua (spleen kept his vote) and Mr. W ended up voting for spleen, someone who wasn't in the running.

So by this post, spleen and Mr. W could be Darks from the same faction trying to disorient by voting for one another?

[Lorena]

Whoops, upon closer inspection, Thomkal voted for Scoobz, my bad.

They might have cast a vote earlier on the day on the assumption that the vote would be closer than it was. It is much better for a wolf trying to have a good voting record to get the vote in early, rather that being a piler on at the end, so they might have done that and been forced to stick with it -- or more likely more votes for scoobz would have filled up the gap. I would have voted for him if I were here, for instance.

The first vote of the day was post #126 and the last vote was post #388. Mr. Wednesday's vote was #341 (which was closer towards the end), Schmidty's vote was #301, and spleen was #180.

I dunno, I see it more as they were throwing their vote onto someone they figured was on the side of the light instead of voting for a fellow baddie.

[Mr. Wednesday]

I'm looking at voting records right now and sorted my filter to everyone that voted for Chief Rum (known good) and threw away a vote on Day 1 (someone other than scoobz who turned out bad). Scoobz (if my count is correct) had 15 votes at the end of the day, so I have doubts that a wolf would cast a vote on scoobz knowing it could be close (unless of course they were willing to sacrifice one of their own).

Please remember the high likelihood that none of the bad guys actually realized Scoobz's role.

[Schmidty]

I'm looking at voting records right now and sorted my filter to everyone that voted for Chief Rum (known good) and threw away a vote on Day 1 (someone other than scoobz who turned out bad). Scoobz (if my count is correct) had 15 votes at the end of the day, so I have doubts that a wolf would cast a vote on scoobz knowing it could be close (unless of course they were willing to sacrifice one of their own).

Mr. Wednesday, Schmidty, Spleen, and Thomkal meet the criteria. Mr. W and Spleen voted for Neuqua (spleen kept his vote) and Mr. W ended up voting for spleen, someone who wasn't in the running.

If you and AlanT lead a charge to lynch me and succeed, you will look terrible, and my fellow citizens of Bree will be much, much weaker.

As far as my voting record, I don't think it's fair to pick on my day 1 vote, since everyone was randomly voting because of the normal day 1 lack of evidence. The only thing that you have to go on is 1 vote - Chief Rum. So saying that my "voting history" is bad, is an overstatement. I wasn't the first one to vote for him, and really had nothing else to go on, so I voted for him. Obviously, it was a mistake, but to say that it's truly incriminating is silly.

I know that although we don't have a lot to go on at this point, and that voting for me seems as good as voting for anyone else, I reiterate that you would be making a big mistake (unless you are bad yourself).

[Lorena]

So by this post, spleen and Mr. W could be Darks from the same faction trying to disorient by voting for one another?

Could be, I mean it's not unheard of where fellow baddies vote for each other to take one for the team. Besides, neither of them had any heat so it's easy to disguise their vote.

[Mr. Wednesday]

I voted for Spleen at a point where it wasn't particularly close, because I felt a runaway onto a good guy would be completely useless to us. In fact, it turned out to not be a runaway onto a good guy, but I still think it was close to useless for voting record reasons because I think it's highly likely that the other bad guys weren't aware of Scoobz's role, or rather, that he was the one who held it.

[st.cronin]

I've sat here most of the day trying to figure out where I would go with a vote. I have more people I suspect than fingers and need to narrow it down.

Out of curiosity, who does everyone think so far has been the most over the radar while producing the least meaningful discussion? Ie: Who has been creating a bunch of white noise that really leads us nowhere?

I was thinking about that exact question last night, and I'm not sure. Probably Blade, at least in some ways.

[BrianD]

Out of curiosity, who does everyone think so far has been the most over the radar while producing the least meaningful discussion? Ie: Who has been creating a bunch of white noise that really leads us nowhere?

After last game, I find it ironic that you ask this question. :)

[Tyrith]

I've sat here most of the day trying to figure out where I would go with a vote. I have more people I suspect than fingers and need to narrow it down.

Out of curiosity, who does everyone think so far has been the most over the radar while producing the least meaningful discussion? Ie: Who has been creating a bunch of white noise that really leads us nowhere?

Ooh, ooh, me me me! If this was designed to get people to turn against me you're probably going to do a good job.

That said, time to look at the post count:

Alan - 110 - I think you've been doing a pretty decent job with discussion, seeing that yesterday once the ball was rolling you really couldn't do that much about it. I'll be interested to hear what you have to say later today.
Tyrith - 100 - Already mentioned.
Blade - 81 - Yeah, he was okay yesterday, although that entire mess was more aggrevating than anything else.
SnDvls - 68 - Wow, I didn't realize he had this many posts. Well, he's splattered now, so it doesn't matter.

Then there is a giant mess starting with Daddy at 55 that includes a bunch of people I don't remember making any huge leaps and Lathum. In general so far we haven't had that many great ideas tossed out there; I suspect I'd have a much better answer for this question tomorrow. Right now I can't give much beyond myself.

[Alan T]

If you and AlanT lead a charge to lynch me and succeed, you will look terrible, and my fellow citizens of Bree will be much, much weaker.

As far as my voting record, I don't think it's fair to pick on my day 1 vote, since everyone was randomly voting because of the normal day 1 lack of evidence. The only thing that you have to go on is 1 vote - Chief Rum. So saying that my "voting history" is bad, is an overstatement. I wasn't the first one to vote for him, and really had nothing else to go on, so I voted for him. Obviously, it was a mistake, but to say that it's truly incriminating is silly.

I know that although we don't have a lot to go on at this point, and that voting for me seems as good as voting for anyone else, I reiterate that you would be making a big mistake (unless you are bad yourself).

Why am I getting brought into this Schmidty? Just for making an observation that it seemed weird that you made such a claim after just one person put a vote on you? Just because I was curious why people voted for Lathum early on yesterday instead of you when you provided less of a reason for the same vote as Lathum?

I don't really think those questions are pushes, but more legit things to be asked. So far I haven't said one thing that I think people should vote you or I would vote you. But if you want me to I can start. Is that your goal?

[KWhit]

On Tyrith

I did notice that while we were making the two horse race, he backed off of Lathum to vote for Swaggs. I haven't gone back to check if there was a reason or not, but at first glance it looked fishy.



The way Lathum took my arguments makes me think he's bad, or he's playing sloppy like he accused me of. He's still very high on my watch list...that said, the way Swaggs is playing now is making me even more suspicious, and since Lathum isn't gonna get lynched tonight I'm switching.

UNVOTE LATHUM
VOTE SWAGGS


I mentioned at the time that I thought this was a very odd move by Tyrith as Lathum was still in the running for lynch and there was plenty of time for votes to shift. If Tyrith really thought Lathum was bad, why move his vote to someone who had NO CHANCE to get lynched?

[Tyrith]

Whoops, upon closer inspection, Thomkal voted for Scoobz, my bad.



The first vote of the day was post #126 and the last vote was post #388. Mr. Wednesday's vote was #341 (which was closer towards the end), Schmidty's vote was #301, and spleen was #180.

I dunno, I see it more as they were throwing their vote onto someone they figured was on the side of the light instead of voting for a fellow baddie.

Yeah, at this point I still find it likely that the other bad guys didn't know about scoobz. Anxiety said he asked a question about his role...could it have been asking about his allegiance? It would be a question I might ask in that situation, talking about PM rights or something.

[Lorena]

Please remember the high likelihood that none of the bad guys actually realized Scoobz's role.

I'm sure there are members of the other evil side with votes in there, not knowing who he was.

[Alan T]

Ooh, ooh, me me me! If this was designed to get people to turn against me you're probably going to do a good job.

That said, time to look at the post count:

Alan - 110 - I think you've been doing a pretty decent job with discussion, seeing that yesterday once the ball was rolling you really couldn't do that much about it. I'll be interested to hear what you have to say later today.
Tyrith - 100 - Already mentioned.
Blade - 81 - Yeah, he was okay yesterday, although that entire mess was more aggrevating than anything else.
SnDvls - 68 - Wow, I didn't realize he had this many posts. Well, he's splattered now, so it doesn't matter.

Then there is a giant mess starting with Daddy at 55 that includes a bunch of people I don't remember making any huge leaps and Lathum. In general so far we haven't had that many great ideas tossed out there; I suspect I'd have a much better answer for this question tomorrow. Right now I can't give much beyond myself.

Everyone is so defensive over my question asking today. Have I even said anything about voting for you yet today? The only question I can remember asking you was in regards to why Lathum over Schmidty.

[Schmidty]

Why am I getting brought into this Schmidty? Just for making an observation that it seemed weird that you made such a claim after just one person put a vote on you? Just because I was curious why people voted for Lathum early on yesterday instead of you when you provided less of a reason for the same vote as Lathum?

I don't really think those questions are pushes, but more legit things to be asked. So far I haven't said one thing that I think people should vote you or I would vote you. But if you want me to I can start. Is that your goal?

You haven't played with me much Alan. Everyone knows I always panic easily, and am generally the most defensive player in the game. Always. :)

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Izulde and JE both throw out early votes on people of their choice with their reasonings. I guess I would be curious if either of these two still feel the same way about their votes and if not, why?

My early vote yesterday against DaddyTorgo was just a hunch I had from day 1. I found his needing to be swayed to vote for Scoobz a bit odd, but his explanation for his actions changed my mind. I don't hold him high on my suspect list now.

[Alan T]

You haven't played with me much Alan. Everyone knows I always panic easily, and am generally the most defensive player in the game. Always. :)

I'm not sure this is a fair statement. I think this is my 5th - 7th game with you. I'm well aware of it, but even if you get super defensive I am curious to why you lumped me in with Dodgerchick just for asking questions of you. I notice instead of answering my question you changed subjects instead and made a sideshow of it.

[Schmidty]

You haven't played with me much Alan. Everyone knows I always panic easily, and am generally the most defensive player in the game. Always. :)

Not only that - I am the acknowledged worst WW player ever. I'm too emotional.

[Tyrith]

I mentioned at the time that I thought this was a very odd move by Tyrith as Lathum was still in the running for lynch and there was plenty of time for votes to shift. If Tyrith really thought Lathum was bad, why move his vote to someone who had NO CHANCE to get lynched?

Well, to start with, in this game it is very rare that you straight "think" someone is bad. Usually it is about probabilities -- "I think there's a bigger chance X is bad than Y". And yes, I thought it was more likely than average that Lathum was bad. However, at that poitn I also thought Lathum had very little chance of being lynched, considering the momentum of the situation. Instead I decided to shine a light on a topic that is a bit of a sore one for me, day 1 voting records (mostly meaningless! :) ) Attempting to stir up more talk, which it did even if not in the way I would have preferred. I could have just left it on Lathum and let the vote die, but what's the point of that? There's no way me moving the vote works as a wolf hiding his vote because we're still talking about the vote right now.

This goes back to last game, where the wolves are usually better off letting their votes die on people that won't get lynched than moving them. The wolves aren't going to be the people stirring up a mess unless they're ultra brave and think they can duck the pressure, and that they'll be right. We still don't put enough pressure on the UTRs while we always focus on the people that talk.

[Alan T]

I'm not sure this is a fair statement. I think this is my 5th - 7th game with you. I'm well aware of it, but even if you get super defensive I am curious to why you lumped me in with Dodgerchick just for asking questions of you. I notice instead of answering my question you changed subjects instead and made a sideshow of it.

Actually looking back, this is my 10th game with you.

[Tyrith]

Everyone is so defensive over my question asking today. Have I even said anything about voting for you yet today? The only question I can remember asking you was in regards to why Lathum over Schmidty.

I wasn't implying that you were attacking me, only that it would be a pretty good way to imply my guilt without having to say it if you were being that creative :) Most of the rest of it was my riding myself for playing like such a donkey this game.

[Izulde]

Okay so my own new list is:

LonestarGirl
Blade
Mr. Wednesday
spleen

LSG is still my strongest suspicion based on the way she's acting, hence she still has my vote.

[spleen1015]

Just so that everyone knows this before they jump to a bunch of conclusions, I was out Monday night when the switch to lynch Scoobz happened. I was out bowling from 7:30~10. So, I wasn't around to change my vote.