Why AP2K8 will look like the Vick/Owens commercial

[spankdatazz22]

I'm bored.

And of course I'm not trying to jinx VC on expectations, but wanted to throw this out for discussion (if it's even worth discussing). I was deleting some stuff off an old work PC and came across the Vick/Owens Nike commercial I downloaded years ago. At the time, many of us wondered what the PS3 and 360 would be capable of, and thought this, while on the high end, might be possible. Then we got the EA/Tiburon Madden commercial heralding next gen football, and expectations were placed firmly back into the world of PS2/XBox-era graphics. But after looking at the commercial again, I have to say - maybe this is possible on the next gen machines. Here's a link to the youtube version of the commercial:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVh0n03DnjQ

I'm guessing this is all CG of course. But if you look at many of the effects in the video, you could point to things being done now that might make it doable. In some ways things are actually better on the next gen systems. Of course, I seriously doubt anyone could get a graphical beast like that up and running smoothly at 60fps But some things that stood out to me:

- Player interaction. If you look at the video, much of that has been done in videogames to date. Anyone that's seen the OL/DL interaction in NFL2K5 can attest to the interaction being almost beautiful in a sense, the way double-team blocks occur, the head tracking, etc. Extrapolating that out to what they might be capable of now, given what they were doing, and it's within the realm of that level of player interaction being possible. When Vick was dodging the pass rushers, a few of the moves were similar to what 2K5 was doing w/the QB Evade feature

- Field/turf. In the video the turf looks artificial and almost completely flat - something I never really noticed. Turf done in Madden 07 and in MLB2K7 looks better imo. The way the infield degrades gradually in MLB2K7 is fantastic and almost looks like what was occuring in the video. The effect of dirt/snow being kicked up is eerily similar to the effect of dirt being kicked up on slides/dives in MLB2K7.

- The depth of field blurring. This same effect is used in MLB2K7. Some people don't like it, but the way it's implemented in MLB2K7 is very similar to how it is in the video. Personally I really like it. I haven't seen anyone implement that level of snow effect in a videogame though.

- The stadium itself in the video doesn't look any more impressive than the work Tiburon has done with any of it's stadiums in either Madden or NCAA (next gen) - I'd argue the stuff done those games is better. Particularly the jumbotrons (which you peripherally notice in the commercial)

I think it was either BK or Pared that joked they wouldn't want to see a Gatorade jug hurled at them while running of course, but 2K5 DID have Gatorade as a sponsor... I think it's in NBA2K7 also. So 2-3 years after the next gen systems were released, I do think this level of graphics MAY be doable. Either way was curious to see what people thought the game might look like. Personally I think it'll be somewhere between NBA2K7 and MLB2K7, perhaps a little closer to NBA2K7 because of the number of players interacting on the field

[spankdatazz22]

Ummm... can one of the mods modify the title to say "SPECULATION" in all caps at the front of the title? Don't want to disappoint anyone thinking new information has been released - thx

[wwharton]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

Ummm... can one of the mods modify the title to say "SPECULATION" in all caps at the front of the title? Don't want to disappoint anyone thinking new information has been released - thx

no need. i think that goes without saying.

good thoughts... a good read for those of us bored also.

[SageInfinite]

I definately think 2k could come close to this commercial from a graphical standpoint. If not this year, if they continue this game in the next couple of years. From an animation standpoint, I dont think they could match the fluidity in the commercial from the running to the diving of tacklers. Maybe in a few years.....maybe.

This game will definatly be a animation showcase and IMO will be the 1st real taste of next gen football. Props on the thread .

[djordan]

You guys are reaching...

LOL...So many are going to be pissed off by the screenshots even if they are great to toehr people because you guys expect the "BESTEST GREAPHICS EVERZ". Its not going to happen.

I know that this game will look great just judging from NBA2k7 but some of you cats take it to another level...lol

[blackceasar]

I dont think youre going to get an actual football game produced that looks identical to what you see in that commerical. While the 360 and PS3 are nice, I just dont see it happening. I work with a bunch of dudes who specialize in high end 3D. They are pros with the same tools that were used to do the CG in that commerical. Mya, Lightwave 3D, Soft Image XSI, etc. One of the guys told me at work that at his old job when that commerical first came out there were some account dudes buggin out because they thought the real game would look like that or close. He explained to them what he explained to me.

When you see those super high end cut scenes in games like Final Fantasy, etc that look WAAAY better than the actual game itself there is a reason why those are cutscenes and not the game itself. Its pretty simple and makes a whole lotta sense when he explained it to me.

We you are using 3D graphics in an actual game, your hardware is rendering the actual 3D, pixel by pixel, for every frame, angle, etc. Basically your computer/360/PS3 is actually the rendering engine itself. When you see a high end high def cutscene like in a Final Fantasy game or like in the commercial your game system is NOT doing any rendering. All its doing is playing back a VIDEO of a CG movie that was already rendered at over a number of rendering stations and its output to video. It doesnt matter how graphically intense the video is because your system reads video as video. As you all know you cannot control video on the fly. Its nothing but a recording of a pre-rendered scene, animation, etc.

To have your gameplay actually look like that high end CG you see, it couldnt be video cuz you cannot controll video because again, its a recording of a rendering, the choices , options, etc have already been made, there is no way to control or change it with user input of a controller. So the only way to pull it off is for your 360 or PS3 or PC to render the actual 3D, NOT A VIDEO OF IT which is a whole different ballgame. Basically what he was getting at is what makes people think a console sytem that we have out today can render, on the fly, in real time at 60, 30, or even 24 FPS high end 3D like the madden commerical when it takes production companies big azz rendering machines, groups of them, hours if not DAYS to render that same kind of stuff???

We are a long way from gameplay that matches what you see in the commercial. Last time i checked, these production companies were not using a group of console systems to handle 3D rendering.

I do see however what we currently have getting better and yes I think All Pro at the very least will have the visual quality of the MLB 2k games with is ALLLLLLLLRIGHT with me.

[TeeDogg]

Most of us are expecting graphics along the lines of MLB 2k7 and NBA 2k7. anything better than that is icing on the cake. it would be foolish to be disappointed when the first shots dont look like the T.O. Vick vid.

[totalownership]

Blackceaser hit it right on the head. Infact I'll go one further. The 360 and PS3 are more than likely quite capable of producing the vids you see in those computers. Yes , your console HAS that power, however if you want to see it in action get ready to wait a week for a handoff because the game will run somewhere like 1 frame per 13 hours if not more. I've played around with 3D animations WAY back in the day on the Amiga. For me to get a tiny 150 x 150 simple animation with maybe 2 light sources and some "decent" AA I had to set the animation for render when I got home from college that day and HOPE it was ready in the afternoon to be viewed. The afternoon of the NEXT day that is. And that may have been like 3 seconds of vid.

No console will EVER be able to render on the fly what a few computers of that day can render in a week. NOW that being said, it's not to say that in a few years a console will be able to do what that video did realtime, however same said console will not be able to touch what can be rendered in it's time what a few dedicated servers could.