Bump and Run

[CreatineKasey]

Quote: Originally Posted by s38s38s

When you do any all out blitz roll a coverage shell for your secondary..that way you get your opponent to start thinking zone when its a man all out blitz....(change cov shell before it shows your teams walk to the line of scrimmage). Second use the show blitz from time to time just so guys will think you're coming and then your LB's drop back then throw in that all out Blitz. Its a high risk high reward....but if anyone can pull it off it'd be you, I probably have more trouble vs your DEF than anyone...I'm always guessing

That's what I'm talkin' about! Yeah I try to roll coverage beforehand... I think the key is to ROLL the coverage, not go to a cover 2 look... which is too delayed. Good point. It'd work best with a weakness at cornerback too.

[s38s38s]

Quote: Originally Posted by CreatineKasey

That's what I'm talkin' about! Yeah I try to roll coverage beforehand... I think the key is to ROLL the coverage, not go to a cover 2 look... which is too delayed. Good point. It'd work best with a weakness at cornerback too.

BTW i'm labbing it now in Practice Mode and I must say i can't wait to test it out online...

[CreatineKasey]

S38s you were onto something with the bump. Lately I've been bumping, shading to the outside, and using inside zones to muck things up.

I really think that man press is the counter to a spread offense. I just played a guy who liked to go 4-5 wide the whole game. My strength lied at linebacker, DL, and SS. I had 1 bronze CB, that's it.

I ran man bump probably 75% of the time and came back from down 20-7 ton win 21-20 because he wouldn't run the ball. He had something like 26 passes and 6 runs. I have no sympathy for me sitting in 3-2 dime press when this guy won't line it up and run the ball. Why should I change?

Well I didn't and it paid off. I made multiple stops in the 2nd half and won the game. Lesson learned: Kill spread defenses with man press, especially effective with pass rushing talent. If I had Deacon Jones or Randy White he would've been wanting to quit.

It's too easy to break a zone defense in a spread formation. The guy could run slants/posts/outs on me all day no matter what zone was called. I get into bump and he can't get anything off and ends up throwing away over 5 passes.

This game I was controlling my gold SS to manually take away inside routes, but with some guts you could control a pass rusher and improve in that area too. In fact, I've been labbing manual rushing with my gold OLB and I am definitely learning how to apply talent properly against a spread offense. Simple: make him hold the ball. This turns it into "your" game which is the pass rush. Simple pitch and catch is not "your" game when you don't have talent at DB to work it.

Okay rant over. Simply said, Outside shading in bump should be seen as the standard approach... take away easy fade points and things get tougher. It covers inside routes better than you'd think.

Edit: Wait a second there fellow APF'er. I know what you're thinking - "Oh gosh oh golly gee willickers that sounds kinda unfair!"

Here's the counter: RUN THE FREAKING BALL! Line it up, and pound it down the throat of your opponent. You'll break big ones all day. Scramble with your QB... run with him if things aren't working.

[RogueHominid]

Agree wholeheartedly, Kasey. I figured this out facing Lofton, Reed, and Maynard all on the same team.

If you face zone, you just have to call a play that attacks the anticipated coverage and then hot route one receiver to a route that will be open if you get the second coverage. This is pretty easy to do since most guys run cover 2 or cover 3 all game long. So you call a TE corner, hot route to an out, and if it's cover 3, you throw the out for easy first downs; if it's cover 2, you take your shot with the corner. There's no way to deal with that effectively.

Most people don't have the chutzpah to run man coverage very often. And most, as you say, abandon the run far too quickly in favor of the chance for a 40-yard pass play.

[CreatineKasey]

Quote: Originally Posted by The Autumn Wind

Agree wholeheartedly, Kasey. I figured this out facing Lofton, Reed, and Maynard all on the same team. If you face zone, you just have to call a play that attacks the anticipated coverage and then hot route one receiver to a route that will be open if you get the second coverage. This is pretty easy to do since most guys run cover 2 or cover 3 all game long. So you call a TE corner, hot route to an out, and if it's cover 3, you throw the out for easy first downs; if it's cover 2, you take your shot with the corner. There's no way to deal with that effectively. Most people don't have the chutzpah to run man coverage very often. And most, as you say, abandon the run far too quickly in favor of the chance for a 40-yard pass play.

Yep! The trick is to then mix in zones once you set a precedent of man coverage. If you can get someone to call a play with a bunch of crossing routes and you are in 2 soft you are in a good place.

I usually ran zones to set up man coverage, but I'm seeing against those who have more talent and are pass happy I should actually call man coverages to set up zones.

The key to blitzing is to get a 5 man rush in there untouched. I'm working on it, but it's not easy... nor should it be.

[NFLHITMAN]

Quote: Originally Posted by CreatineKasey

S38s you were onto something with the bump. Lately I've been bumping, shading to the outside, and using inside zones to muck things up. I really think that man press is the counter to a spread offense. I just played a guy who liked to go 4-5 wide the whole game. My strength lied at linebacker, DL, and SS. I had 1 bronze CB, that's it. I ran man bump probably 75% of the time and came back from down 20-7 ton win 21-20 because he wouldn't run the ball. He had something like 26 passes and 6 runs. I have no sympathy for me sitting in 3-2 dime press when this guy won't line it up and run the ball. Why should I change? Well I didn't and it paid off. I made multiple stops in the 2nd half and won the game. Lesson learned: Kill spread defenses with man press, especially effective with pass rushing talent. If I had Deacon Jones or Randy White he would've been wanting to quit. It's too easy to break a zone defense in a spread formation. The guy could run slants/posts/outs on me all day no matter what zone was called. I get into bump and he can't get anything off and ends up throwing away over 5 passes. This game I was controlling my gold SS to manually take away inside routes, but with some guts you could control a pass rusher and improve in that area too. In fact, I've been labbing manual rushing with my gold OLB and I am definitely learning how to apply talent properly against a spread offense. Simple: make him hold the ball. This turns it into "your" game which is the pass rush. Simple pitch and catch is not "your" game when you don't have talent at DB to work it. Okay rant over. Simply said, Outside shading in bump should be seen as the standard approach... take away easy fade points and things get tougher. It covers inside routes better than you'd think. Edit: Wait a second there fellow APF'er. I know what you're thinking - "Oh gosh oh golly gee willickers that sounds kinda unfair!" Here's the counter: RUN THE FREAKING BALL! Line it up, and pound it down the throat of your opponent. You'll break big ones all day. Scramble with your QB... run with him if things aren't working.

I am not calling anyone out but Valdarez loves to run Spread offenses and motion his WR away from the better secondary personal. He attacks zones very well doing this but in the CFL league I had the Oregon Ducks. Ducks strength was in there secondary and so I had a Gold CB and SS along with a Silver CB. I played Valdarez and used Bump Man against his Texas Longhorns team and he called it cheese and still does LOL. I guess not being able to depend on break downs in zones or my top secondary personal to be matched up on his best WR's he called cheese on it.

I respect Valdarez but I don't care for his views on what is cheese and what is not cheese.

How about everyone play zone defense and have everyone use a spread offense.

Bump is the best Man 2 Man defense there is in this game. Regular Man 2 Man does not keep a CB on a WR as well. There is always counters to everything yet people refuse to use Bump Buster on there WR's and than cry CHEESE LOL.

[CreatineKasey]

Quote: Originally Posted by NFLHITMAN

I am not calling anyone out but Valdarez loves to run Spread offenses and motion his WR away from the better secondary personal. He attacks zones very well doing this but in the CFL league I had the Oregon Ducks. Ducks strength was in there secondary and so I had a Gold CB and SS along with a Silver CB. I played Valdarez and used Bump Man against his Texas Longhorns team and he called it cheese and still does LOL. I guess not being able to depend on break downs in zones or my top secondary personal to be matched up on his best WR's he called cheese on it. I respect Valdarez but I don't care for his views on what is cheese and what is not cheese. How about everyone play zone defense and have everyone use a spread offense. Bump is the best Man 2 Man defense there is in this game. Regular Man 2 Man does not keep a CB on a WR as well. There is always counters to everything yet people refuse to use Bump Buster on there WR's and than cry CHEESE LOL.

If I don't bump I don't get stops on defense. At this point in the game everyone knows how to shred a zone with talent on offense... I need to just out-man them and make them hold the ball longer to wait for players to get open. There's a place for zone defense in this game, but I can't call it exclusively that's for darn sure.

I win about 1 in 5 games with my 1989 Dome Patrol. I think I'm going to have heart problems by the end of this league.... so frustrating watching this offense shoot itself in the foot every drive. Unbelievable. Even on defense I don't feel rewarded. I send the nastiest blitzes I've ever seen period... and people still get throws off fairly easy.

I've got a problem though.... I'm addicted to running these blitzes. Yes they work, but if people know it's coming it doesn't matter. I need to hide the beast then one time WHAM steal their soul

[Valdarez]

Hitman, I've about had my fill of you misrepresenting me on forums, whether here, or on the 2K Sports forums. How about you stick to presenting your own views, instead of attempting (emphasis on attempting) to represent mine. Taking bits and pieces of something I have stated in order to misrepresent it is dishonest, and a waste of everyone's time.

What I have said is that cheese is doing anything over, and over again, especially when you are trying to replicate a NFL Sim experience, in a NFL Sim league.

With regards to bump coverage, I do believe that bump coverage is OP (over powered). You can do some examples to test it out and draw your own conclusions. You can run bump with receivers, give them inside coverage, and they'll still successfully cover the outs. How does that work? Answer, it shouldn't.

On deep routes, when double covered, WR's will be bumped well beyond the 5 yard line, many times pushed back and forth between the two defensive backs, so much so that every once in awhile a WR will actually be knocked to the ground, which is both a funny thing to watch, and a frustrating thing to watch as no flag is thrown and needless to say you can't complete a pass to a WR laying on the ground.

With regards to passing against bump coverage, I have posted questions to the entire community asking how to throw against bump coverage for normal routes (how to read and throw) beyond running a specific route (arrow or comeback of some sort), none of which can be hot routed too. To date, no one has been able to explain it.

For some reason, bump man does not just have the DB bump the man at the 5 yard line, it causes the DB to stay very close to the receiver, thus you are right Hitman, it is by far the most effective man coverage in the game.

The problem, as I see it is that man coverage is too lax (DB's are too far off their coverage), and bump coverage is too close. In reality both coverages should be somewhere in between with the only difference on the bump coverage being a bump before the 5 yard line.