OSUPiper's CH2K8 CPUvCPU Experience

[OSUPiper]

Quote: Originally Posted by jww

i have played a lot with lowered offensive awareness, shot selection suffers, offensive options become simplified and predictable. i would think that if slightly elevated fga is the only unintended by-product, it is an acceptable trade-off.

100% agreed. Off Awareness must stay high. Raising Def Awareness is acceptable until drives become ineffective.


This is the struggle IMO at this point. For example, I just dropped all tendencies by 2 to watch the effect on FGAs. The result was as follows:
Total FGAs = 106; Total FTAs = 37.
These numbers are almost exactly where they should be. Additionally, both offenses ran more sets / more designed plays. We already know that more shots out of set plays results in better shot distribution, so all of these results are good.


The problem is (1) lack of dribble drive (even with these slight adjustments and (2) a slight but distinct advantage to the team with more second chance opportunities / fast break opportunities.


As to the second problem, this is a fair result, as the ability to score in transition and second chances is a major advantage in basketball.


The first problem is trickier; I have been watching games with my DRIVE slider as a focus for several seasons now. It could be that seeing fewer drives reveals my own bias as an observer (that is, I see fewer drives as a problem even if it is not). My goal is not for every player to rocket into the lane, but rather for those athletic players who attack and play above the rim to affect the game appropriately.


Fortunately, I have a perfect 6'5 swing man to watch and see how this plays out. Will watch one more game tonight on this setting and report.

[OSUPiper]

Consider these numbers, pulled from my present legacy. Most of these games were played with the sliders on Page 1, with less than 25% played with the recent changes to Help D, etc.


Conference FGAs
Max = 58.58
My Games = 58.44
Min = 47.25
Median = 53..22
Avg = 53.21


FTAs
Max = 35.07
My Games = 22.06
Min = 22.06
Median = 25.79
Avg = 26.90


FGAs + 1/2 FTAs
Max = 73.75
My Games = 69.47
Min = 59.29
Median = 67.95
Avg = 66.66


"FGAs+(FTAs/2)" is a dirty shorthand for offensive possessions with an attempt at the basket. Note that I observe one of the highest FGAs/game, but the lowest FTAs/game. I am about 3 possessions/game over the average for a power conference.


Also consider that it is impossible to create enough turnovers to match the population, statistically, so all of these other teams actually have more possessions per game than in watched games. In fact, I see about 3 fewer TOs per game than the conference average.


I agree with you, jww, in wanting FGAs per game to be lower; however, this numbers tell me that I am almost spot on in possessions/game, but far behind in FTAs. Part of this is a lack of inside scoring, which means fewer contested shots or shots in traffic, which means fewer trips to the FT line. Secondly, I have a jump shooting team this season. Given all of this, I would expect slightly above average number of possessions (and FGAs) and slightly below average FTAs. I would probably expect to see a few more turnovers (1-2 per game above where I am).


So, I am going to (1) add back in those 2 pts to each tendency; (2) lower ballhandling slightly (for more TOs); and (3) increase Shooting Foul. (NOTE - I have been playing with Reaching Foul and Shooting Foul, so those numbers may differ from the Page 1 post.)

[jww]

i would be happy with those numbers. i have yet to start my new legacy, and im sure that final game stats will differ from quick game to legacy.

like you said in your initial post in the thread, the look and feel of the game is most important, and from what i have seen with this set, there is a lot of randomness and a lot of neat animations that i have not seen with other slider sets.

after watching a few games last night, i am satisfied and will start my new career legacy tonight using the slider updates. when you post your final set, i will adjust in legacy mode.

[OSUPiper]

Dropping Ball Handling to 28 did not appear to increase TOs but did negatively affect drives. I may test raising Def Awareness by at least 5 points to see the effect on drives. I am hoping that Help D settings will keep the lane open. If so, that may be a direction I can go. It should even out 3pFGAs.


When DRIVE is lowered, jump shots are more evenly contested. This is great for producing stats, but not nearly as interesting as the effect of a good dribble drive. Since a good penetrator is such a commodity in this game, I want to maintain the great impact it has on the gameplay. Basically, I think the effective Drive is the key to 'randomness' in this game.

[Brock]

Been late to ask this: What made you decide to drop team unity by 10?

edit: Also, I've seen some of the NICEST blocks with your sliders.

[OSUPiper]

Quote: Originally Posted by Brock

Been late to ask this: What made you decide to drop team unity by 10? edit: Also, I've seen some of the NICEST blocks with your sliders.

Man, I know. The action on the ball is awesome. VC made such a great game, it is funny that we are still tapping into new stuff.


As for Unity, I was afraid that my sliders could never support a Fab 5 or Kentucky team of 1&dones. Frankly, I did not see impact Freshmen like I wanted to. In retrospect, I can't tell if it made a difference.


Right now, offense is too aggressive and effective. Of course, games are more fun to watch than most real life contests, so I am having problems generating enough courage to start throttling the tempo down.

[OSUPiper]

I think the answer is Defensive Pressure in the Coach settings. Not sure why I did not think of this.

Consider the issues: not only are FGAs are trending high, yet still inconsistent, but 3pFGAs and post play are even more glaring. This is because of the different degrees of pressure from different teams.

This has always bothered me. IRL, if you are getting torched by someone, you adjust. If you are in foul trouble, you might sag on D. In CH2K8, coaches cannot react like that because of the preset Pressure rating for that game.

Really what we want to accomplish is good spacing and contested shots when the offensive player wants to play Hero Ball. In contrast, we want to reward ball movement and superior one-on-one skill.

I have DEFENSIVE PRESSURE set to 90. It helps spread the floor, which plays a huge factor in the great results we have been seeing.


Although 90 is high, and like you would expect, defenders are right in the jock of their guy, the flow and shot selection looks great. I may tinker with dropping Pressure to 85 or 80, but so far so good.


This strategy makes sense. It provides uniformity from game to game, which will in turn promote statistical results based more closely on team composition rather than favoring a position. Likewise, tendency sliders will be more effective and respond in a more predictable way. FG% sliders will also be easier to set, meaning open jumpers/layups can have high FG% without breaking FG% overall.


I highly recommend implementing this change.

[OSUPiper]

Quick note for those following this thread: raising Defensive Awareness had minimal impact on shot selection or offensive flow.