Fact or Fiction: NCAA Football 12 Outlook

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by kingsofthevalley

There's nothing left to see man. The main thing you and I are speaking about, people are ignoring right now. Player feel/movement. The players still float around with no illusion of mass/weight. That is not a passing thing that you can ignore, you're going to see this EVERY second that you're playing the game. Its been 8 years. I read somewhere that the devs are keeping the movement twitchy like that to appease the tournament crowd. Dont know if its true or not, but I do know its still not fixed. I recall it was either 2k3 or 2k4 football that moved like that also. Folks couldn't STAND that ****. Then they fixed it for 2k5. Madden last gen never had this problem, thats why I'm baffled as to why it is like this now.

You are going at this at the wrong angle.

I mentioned that there are short comings with EA's football games, especially in the physics area, but that won't be addressed till the near future. I'm not the only one that feels taking out suction blocking and tackling is a step in the right direction. This was the #1 complaint over the past several years on the YT community.

He's getting called out because he said there isn't an EA game that can match up against NBA 2k11 and other good sports games. I mentioned FIFA and NHL are right up there and he also mentioned that there was no improvements to RTG and Franchise, which isn't true at all.

That's why he is being questioned to back up his statements, not because of the physics statement that most people knows about.

[DickDalewood]

Great writeup, seriously.

Thanks guys.

[TheTodd84]

"The NCAA team adds in several team-specific rituals and entrances that go above and beyond what we saw in the PS2/Xbox versions to appease fans, and then the NCAA team gets knocked by the same people they are attempting to please -- being accused of not spending enough time on gameplay and too much time on presentation.

The best part is that if the NCAA team were to go ahead and implement a full-on physics engine, which might cause them to overlook team entrances, Online Dynasty mode or some special facemask design, then folks in the vocal minority would be back screaming and complaining about how they can not comprehend why these little details are constantly overlooked. It's a complete no-win situation for the team at Tiburon. You want to talk about what next-gen feels like? How about an Online Dynasty mode that revolutionized online interaction in sports games, complete with Dynasty Anywhere and StoryBuilder. Yeah, mediocre games typically have those types of features."

I don't think I could disagree with this statement any more. Sure, maybe some people might criticize them so it appears that it is a no-win situation, but if you ever go on the forums here, it seems as though the top priority across the board is gameplay. Sure, some people want dreads, facemasks, and authentic team entrances, but to be honest, most people on here just want a game that PLAYS like a football game. And to say that next-gen "feels like" online dynasty is a complete injustice to next-gen games. The whole point of "next-gen" is the technology. The technology allows for improved graphics, as well as brand new innovations in GAMEPLAY, such as real-time physics. Sure, you can incorporate the online dynasty because of the increased online capacity of the systems and the bigger discs, but in terms of sports games, online dynasty does not feel like next-gen.

This is not call of duty. If anyone paid any attention to the polls on this site and to the forums, then you would see that the majority of people on here care about SINGLE PLAYER and SINGLE PLAYER dynasty. When justifying their reasons, a lot of the issues are with online "cheesers" who take advantage of the game's shortcomings and flaws.

A very simple way to eliminate online cheesing and the common complaints that the QBs can drop back 25 yards, or can throw accurate bullets on the run can all be solved with one thing, real-time physics. If real-time physics were incorporated, then people would be justly penalized for not playing the game the way it is meant to be played. Sure, a vocal minority, as you would call it, would be upset, but the majority of players, especially the "casual gamers" EA seems to cater to, would be overjoyed because their game would play like real football.

It took them entirely too many years to incorporate the coaching carousel. I am extremely glad it is in there now and adds an incredible amount of immersion to the single-player dynasty and I cannot wait to use it, as well as custom playbooks. But to say that the gameplay is not mediocre is honestly a lie. Sure, NCAA 11 was a huge step up from previous iterations of the game. But let's be real here, is that really something to write home about? No, it's not... while the gameplay was "improved," it was still not good, or anywhere close to where it should be at 5 years into the next-gen cycle.

The excuses about not improving the game because of a yearly cycle can be used all they want, but the core issue is this: The gameplay should ALWAYS be addressed FIRST, then you add in the other stuff. I can guarantee that if the NCAA team had to scrap the team entrances and some other things in order to make the gameplay and single-player dynasty incredible true to life and play like a real-game football, then people would be ok with not having custom entrances or new commentary or things like that for a year or two. That's the issue. The team is focused on custom entrances and all this window-dressing first, when the gameplay should be the number one focus until it is done right.

It's not that we are being too hard or that we can never be pleased. It's that we will never be pleased until one full development cycle is focused entirely on gameplay and making the game play like it's real-life counterpart it is intending to simulate. All this baloney about online dynasties and custom team entrances amount to absolutely nothing when it comes to the product on the field. I could care less if I see Michigan touch the "Go Blue" banner when they come out of the tunnel if Michigan doesn't play like Michigan and I have to play against an incompetent CPU or get screwed on open receivers by superhuman linebackers. Because ultimately, good gameplay is what causes the most replayability, not custom entrances.

When the focus is on gameplay, the majority of people will give credit where it is due and will be singing the praises of EA sports. But if the focus is still on custom team entrances and all that garbage, then yes, it will seem like nothing is good enough because that's not what MOST people want.

[TheTodd84]

why do you think, Chase, that MLB: The Show, FIFA and NHL are consistently viewed as better games than NCAA? It is the custom entrances? Nope. Is the commentary? A little bit. Is it the presentation? A little bit. But what is it MOSTLY? Wait for it... the GAMEPLAY. So, if that is the case, then why is the dev team at NCAA still focusing on getting Bevo to look right when they should be trying to make oregon play like a damn spread-option team and make the zone read actually usable?

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheTodd84

It's that we will never be pleased until one full development cycle is focused entirely on gameplay and making the game play like it's real-life counterpart it is intending to simulate.

And that is where it all begins. I agree with most of your post about game play, but I really doubt this will every happen because they have different departments, including marketing, and they all have a say in the game.

For Madden, physics will be the focus in the future, so, I'm assuming it will be the focus for NCAA in the future. I'm sure with the new director overseeing both football games, the focus for physics will be similar to FIFA's physics, as that is where he came from.

[TheTodd84]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

And that is where it all begins. I agree with most of your post about game play, but I really doubt this will every happen because they have different departments, including marketing, and they all have a say in the game. For Madden, physics will be the focus in the future, so, I'm assuming it will be the focus for NCAA in the future. I'm sure with the new director overseeing both football games, the focus for physics will be similar to FIFA's physics, as that is where he came from.

I can only pray as hard as I can that you are right.

[MARTZball]

Never fails to surprise that 'matter of fact' opinions can be construed from game demos. Wait for the finished product. Make an assessment positive or negative then. A demo should be a sample of a game leaving you wanting more. The NCAA 12 demo does that. This is the premiere football sim on the market today and I am confident NCAA 12 will be the game that we have been waiting for on the Next-Gen consoles. NCA11 was a brilliant platform from which to work from, NCAA 12 will be another step in the right direction.

[ChaseB]

Quote: Originally Posted by khaliib

As I stated things here at OS has changed from how it was several years ago. Not that there was a sinister motive by these writers in particular, but there seems to be a sinister attitude towards those that have a view that might not be as positive about the game. (Just read some of the replies) When the writer starts off by saying "It's people like this..." because the veiw was different, kind of seems like the whole purpose of the write-up was to say those that don't see the game on the same manner, simply are lacking something to have such a view. (I wouldn't or did not say Stupid) I wouldn't say that a Gamers can't have an opinion, but I've watched how non-positive notations about EA games have been met with sinister replies that seem to be given more leeway in expression. In a nutshell, I replied because I wondered if those that agreed with Jayson's write-up (not as positve), if such a person would be given the same leeway to do a Fact or Fiction write-up to counter such gloating perspectives that the writers present? Would it be Deleted? Would they be warned or Banned? I could care less one way or another and take no side, it's a video game. I've got likes and dislikes, but still will buy and find a way to enjoy it.

At this point, I think we might be talking about different things here. I am not a moderator, nor am I privy to the way folks may or may not be handled on here. But, I can at least say from the writing side of things, that Jayson -- as I said previously -- would have absolutely been on this Fact or Fiction if he was not working on a Backbreaker review because we generally try to get two guys on -- or even three guys in some cases -- so we can really get folks who have passionate differences on topics to make the FoF more interesting than having two people agree more or less. We don't try to manufacture those opinions though, so Dustin and Christian agree more than not hence why it was a bit more one sided on this particular FoF.

Quote: Originally Posted by khaliib

I wouldn't go that far. There are so many perspectives of what looks/plays right and what's changed, there really isn't a right or wrong dealing with the game. We're talking Millions of different perspectives. We wouldn't be having many of these discussions if the game was more customizable. Options, options, options. I feel that's why so many agreed with Jayson's write-up, because there are no options or have very limited options that allow them to fix what they feel is wrong about their game. Example: No Recruit Editor eventhough every year, gamers run to the Forums looking for Slider/Re-Rated Rosters to help improve an aspect of Gameplay they don't like. Again, so many perspectives, but limited options for Gamers to adjust to their own perspective, is what's driving much of the around here.

I would agree with that overall sentiment and that it makes sense. However, I think you would hear some people say that they did add some customization this year.

Quote: Originally Posted by TheTodd84

why do you think, Chase, that MLB: The Show, FIFA and NHL are consistently viewed as better games than NCAA? It is the custom entrances? Nope. Is the commentary? A little bit. Is it the presentation? A little bit. But what is it MOSTLY? Wait for it... the GAMEPLAY. So, if that is the case, then why is the dev team at NCAA still focusing on getting Bevo to look right when they should be trying to make oregon play like a damn spread-option team and make the zone read actually usable?

I'm not sure why I'm being targeted specifically for this response...

Nevertheless, I would agree the gameplay is why those games are considered better, but I never made any argument that NCAA was better -- not that I even really compared them anywhere, ever -- than those other franchises.

I'm not really going to go down this path of balancing what's done by art team and gameplay team again because I'm pretty sure I already had that discussion recently when it comes to people making an argument that Bevo etc. should be ignored entirely until every gameplay fix occurs. I don't think it's really an argument that is entirely reasonable or feasible but, again, if someone wants to pitch that argument then cool.