Fifa 18 Custom Tactic Slider Set (In progress)

[ricardodc]

Quote: Originally Posted by talucchesi

Awesome! That means so much that you enjoyed it, especially because I do know the values are so extreme. The Op has this new video that I just completed with the changes I made... Let me know your thoughts. I'm all ears.

I will as soon as I can.

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I say it in this next video, but I want the pressure tactic as is because I want teams to press high up the pitch but still bring 10 men back behind the ball. With the pressure tactic at, let's say, 35 for instance, teams will only sit back and not press. Many teams (Atleti, Leicester, Espanyol, Celta Vigo, etc.) Will press up high in a 4-4-2/3-5-2 press to force teams to play long. I'm trying to replicate that.

I suggest you to set Pressure to 100 and than mess with Line length &/or Marking. I think it's the lower LL that is preventing the high pressure. I am not sure that we can have both (pressure and 10 men defending), at least at the degree we want.

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The limits are still being up in the air, but I have general idea. With my current set, I'm thinking Barca is the top limit for both FB positioning and Line height and Length (80, 85 respectively). Celta Vigo and Man U play the widest man marking systems in world football so I'd say width for them should be 80 or so. I wouldn't ever go lower than 55 (as much as it pains me to say) because fullbacks begin giving away the flanks, but maybe that needs more confirmation. And that's only been tested with a 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1. A 4-5-1 is a whole nother beast

And the lower limits & LL?

One thing is to replicate Espanhol (or any similar) against Barcelona, another is against a mid or lower table team. How will you simulate those variations?

Cheers

EDIT: what's the reason for 20/60 marking?

Sent from my ASUS_Z00AD using Operation Sports mobile app

[talucchesi]

Quote: Originally Posted by ricardodc

I will as soon as I can. I suggest you to set Pressure to 100 and than mess with Line length &/or Marking. I think it's the lower LL that is preventing the high pressure. I am not sure that we can have both (pressure and 10 men defending), at least at the degree we want. And the lower limits & LL? One thing is to replicate Espanhol (or any similar) against Barcelona, another is against a mid or lower table team. How will you simulate those variations? Cheers EDIT: what's the reason for 20/60 marking? Sent from my ASUS_Z00AD using Operation Sports mobile app

Last year, if the Pressure tactic got above 90, things got wayyyy out of whack. You started seeing that, what I call, "Blitzkrieg Bop" press or a man to man marking system that allows a single ball over the top to beat the team pressing far too easily. But I haven't tested it this year so it's worth a shot. I agree with you, it might be that I just bite the bullet on that one and take the compressed defensive shape because that's more important to me. Especially with slowing the game down and making defending more possible. The Ai will still press, just not high up enough or in the exact shape that teams do now. Pes actually gets the initial shape perfectly but players sprint back defensively almost immediately after you put the ball into play

I forgot to include it, my bad, but right now I'd say 20 will be the lowest Length limit, 15 is pretty perfect to how the strikers will set up but I think the midfield gets too congested with the backline for it to work well enough. Maybe teams that really only focus on parking the bus from the get go and never press can have a 15 Length, I'm think of teams like Malaga last year who had 19% possession against us last year and still won I think?

You're 100% right when it comes to simulating teams just based on Barca, I'm well aware of that. You'd all be surprised, however, how teams usually play us the same way they'd play anyone else. I plan on using Whoscored data as well as getting the lineup and formation trends to give people the best idea of how these teams are likely to set up. For example: Real Madrid will bring 10 men behind the ball against us (at least they did last year) but they won't do this against anyone else. For the Premier league, my Barca bias won't be an issue because I'll watch virtually anyone against anyone. I actually enjoy watching the Prem more than I do La Liga.

Edit: I got the 20 human marking from Matt's community sliders but I've recently bumped it up to 30 and it's feeling a little better. More testing on marking from anyone is greatly appreciated I'm terrible with figuring out marking values. 60 CPU marking just felt tighter and less easy to break them down. I actually just put it to 65 and it felt even better. Only half a game with that value though.

The Pes 4-4-2 press is perfect. Especially the aspect about taking away the other team's CDM.

[ricardodc]

Quote: Originally Posted by talucchesi

I agree with you, it might be that I just bite the bullet on that one and take the compressed defensive shape because that's more important to me. Especially with slowing the game down and making defending more possible. The Ai will still press, just not high up enough or in the exact shape that teams do now. Pes actually gets the initial shape perfectly but players sprint back defensively almost immediately after you put the ball into play

Maybe there's some magic LL (20's or 30's) that allows both.

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I forgot to include it, my bad, but right now I'd say 20 will be the lowest Length limit, 15 is pretty perfect to how the strikers will set up but I think the midfield gets too congested with the backline for it to work well enough. Maybe teams that really only focus on parking the bus from the get go and never press can have a 15 Length, I'm think of teams like Malaga last year who had 19% possession against us last year and still won I think?

And the highest LL that still makes strikers to defend?

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You're 100% right when it comes to simulating teams just based on Barca, I'm well aware of that. You'd all be surprised, however, how teams usually play us the same way they'd play anyone else. I plan on using Whoscored data as well as getting the lineup and formation trends to give people the best idea of how these teams are likely to set up. For example: Real Madrid will bring 10 men behind the ball against us (at least they did last year) but they won't do this against anyone else. For the Premier league, my Barca bias won't be an issue because I'll watch virtually anyone against anyone. I actually enjoy watching the Prem more than I do La Liga.

I like your approach, a mix of watching real life teams games and collect the data. Unfortunately I have no time to spare to do the same. I have to rely only on stats and my knowledge.

At least in Portugal (and most probably in other countries) there are many teams that use a play style hugely different when facing a bigger club (Benfica, Porto, Sporting) than when they play a similar strength team. That's my worry about using extremes values. They can represent very well some games but will fail in another.

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Edit: I got the 20 human marking from Matt's community sliders but I've recently bumped it up to 30 and it's feeling a little better. More testing on marking from anyone is greatly appreciated I'm terrible with figuring out marking values. 60 CPU marking just felt tighter and less easy to break them down. I actually just put it to 65 and it felt even better. Only half a game with that value though.

Ok. I just don't get it why marking needs to be different for User and CPU. Do CPU teammates behave (men-mark) differently than the CPU ones or it's just a way to make things harder for User?

Cheers!

[talucchesi]

Quote: Originally Posted by ricardodc

Maybe there's some magic LL (20's or 30's) that allows both. And the highest LL that still makes strikers to defend? I like your approach, a mix of watching real life teams games and collect the data. Unfortunately I have no time to spare to do the same. I have to rely only on stats and my knowledge. At least in Portugal (and most probably in other countries) there are many teams that use a play style hugely different when facing a bigger club (Benfica, Porto, Sporting) than when they play a similar strength team. That's my worry about using extremes values. They can represent very well some games but will fail in another. Ok. I just don't get it why marking needs to be different for User and CPU. Do CPU teammates behave (men-mark) differently than the CPU ones or it's just a way to make things harder for User? Cheers!

That was kinda my idea with the high line height initially, to try and get these teams to press better but still drop numbers back. Maybe there is still a magic number

Depends on the line Height and maybe even the Pressure tactic but you're probably looking in the the range of 27-35 Length that will still bring back the Strikers. I'll say this. I have Messi as a RF Suarez as a LS and neither come back to defend (like real life). This is with Height-85, length-27, and the pressure tactic at 90. So keep that in mind.

Yea I know you're right dude. That's where the statisitics come into play. If a team sets up a certain way against us, but the Whoscored stats don't match, I'll adjust. You can even look to see how they played vs a lower team vs a top of the table team. Should give you an idea, and that's all I'm looking for providing people with this set.

I think I remember Matt saying your teammates would follow markers too far into the box but I don't remember exactly. Like I said, I'm pretty much an amateur on the marking slider so any help is much appreciated. I raised both recently and it was playing better but this needs much more testing.

[talucchesi]

Just did something pretty freakin cool (and nerdy). I paused the game and compared it to the actual game I was trying to replicate. Here's FIFA and the actual game side by side with the ball at similar positions on the field...

This is exactly what I'm trying to replicate with these sliders.

[ricardodc]

I remember not long ago having this same lines discussion with andanesean...

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Burley Line length 45 and above... Forwards don't give any defensive support. Burley LL 20 (all other settings the same)... Finally Forwards start to give some defensive support.

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More real life examples from yesterday Benfica match: As I see it, low line length and low line width. Now a real life positioning in a goal kick situation: EA never looked at goal kicks properly. In FIFA positioning is wrong (too wide open) and always the same. There's no variety! Just the standard, plus the "come down" and "go up" orders.

[ricardodc]

Hi!

Some thoughts after my todays testing:

- have you tried Normal speed? I feel that Slow takes away the capability of players like Messi to use quick changes in direction to get past defenders. That's one thing that makes Messi and others like him to stand out. Also, I believe Normal speed helps your defenders to react better to CPU through balls and may help (a little) to get more fouls;
- Pass speed: have you tried increase it for User? I don't think 35 is realistic. Even at full bar, ground passes are too slow and the receiver needs to wait for the ball for too long or needs to move constantly towards it. That can be fine in some slower parts of a game but when you need to increase the pace you can't. One basic modern rule of the sport is that the ball needs to move faster than players and I don't see that at User 35;
- GK are poor but that will probably be corrected by v1.03;
- Marking: I continue to not see the need to have the User/CPU discrepancy, at least at that degree. Please try 40/40;
- as important as CTTs, formations players positioning play an important role to make strikers defend and full backs to help to cover the center of defense. At default, strikers are too forward and FB too wide open.

Are you planning to post Formations and Players instructions?

Keep the good work!

[talucchesi]

Quote: Originally Posted by ricardodc

Hi! Some thoughts after my todays testing: - have you tried Normal speed? I feel that Slow takes away the capability of players like Messi to use quick changes in direction to get past defenders. That's one thing that makes Messi and others like him to stand out. Also, I believe Normal speed helps your defenders to react better to CPU through balls and may help (a little) to get more fouls; - Pass speed: have you tried increase it for User? I don't think 35 is realistic. Even at full bar, ground passes are too slow and the receiver needs to wait for the ball for too long or needs to move constantly towards it. That can be fine in some slower parts of a game but when you need to increase the pace you can't. One basic modern rule of the sport is that the ball needs to move faster than players and I don't see that at User 35; - GK are poor but that will probably be corrected by v1.03; - Marking: I continue to not see the need to have the User/CPU discrepancy, at least at that degree. Please try 40/40; - as important as CTTs, formations players positioning play an important role to make strikers defend and full backs to help to cover the center of defense. At default, strikers are too forward and FB too wide open. Are you planning to post Formations and Players instructions? Keep the good work!

-I'll try normal today! I haven't had any gripes with slow, but if normal fixes those flaws I'm more than willing.

-Personally, I'm definitely in the camp that loves 35 pass speed. It makes the driven passes much more realistic, I just use that when I need to put a little more umph. But I also play assisted and I think that makes a huge difference according to what I've heard from others, so I'll probably make Pass speed user preference.

-Thanks for the help on Marking! I'll try 40/40 today as well. I need all the help I can get with that value, especially because it can be so important.

-I've already done instructions and formations for the 4 teams in the spreadsheet! Maybe I'll make short little videos showing the formations and instructions in the OP. I'm close to finishing about 5-7 other teams but just need to rewatch their games and analyze their statistics.

Thank you for all your help so far ricardodc