What determines a 10-8 grappling round?

[Good Grappler]

Control time, near stoppages, damage, and successful takedowns are all reasons to win a 10-8 grappling round.

Damage and near stoppages should of course be weighed most heavily, but you should be able to win a 10-8 round on control time alone.

Here’s how I see it working.

Rounds can be scored 10-8 on control alone, as long as:

- The attacker’s control time is at least 4 minutes.

- The attacker absorbs no significant damage during the time spent standing.

- At least 80% of the control time must occur from dominant positions. (Includes time spent in submission attempts)

- Even if opponent escapes or successfully reverses the attacker - the round can still be scored 10-8 assuming all the above criteria are still met.


Here’s a super detailed example of how I perceive CONTROL TIME winning a 10-8 round in-game:

Round begins, fighter A and fighter B meet in center of octagon. Fighter A immediately shoots a takedown, but fighter B defends. Fighter B circles for a moment, then throws a few punches. Fighter A ducks under and shoots a single leg, and after a brief struggle, takes down fighter B into half guard 25 seconds into the round.

Within seconds, fighter A passes to full mount. After 1 minute of holding mount, denying escape attempts, and landing postured down elbows... fighter A attempts an armbar. Fighter B defends, and retains half guard. Fighter A simply passes straight to side control. Fighter A holds side control for about 30 seconds, landing a few elbows and knees, before transitioning to crucifix. Fighter B escapes, but fighter A immediately passes to mount. After denying a few escape attempts, fighter A postures up to throw strikes, but fighter B rolls and gives up their back.

Half way through the round, Fighter A has Fighter B’s back and has dominated positionally the entire round thus far. Fighter A flattens out Fighter B, and lands a few minor punches, before attempting an RNC. Fighter B escapes the choke, but is still flatted with fighter A on their back. Fighter A maintains this position for another minute, shutting down escape attempts, attacking with chokes, and landing minor strikes.

Fighter B finally retains half guard, and stands up. However, fighter A immediately closes distance and clinches with Fighter B, tripping them back to the mat. Fighter A transitions to mount, and lands some hard punches. Fighter B again gives up their back, where Fighter A attacks with a choke until the bell rings.

[Phillyboi207]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kingslayer04

Damage and attempts to finish the fight (the closer to finishing the better) have to be there, it's not just about control. It also matters what your opponent is able to do. Like aholbert said, on the feet outstriking and outstriking by a certain amount matter. 10-8s are about total domination where the opponent practically isn't able to do anything and in addition to that, they are getting wrecked (i.e. take tons of damage). A clearly won round does not necessarily equate to a 10-8. Once again, Khabib - Conor R1 is a 10-9. Khabib - Conor R2 is a 10-8. In the game that would mean getting constantly denied, eating many heavy shots from postured positions and not being able to mount any offense or threat. And all of that happening for pretty much the entire round.

Control is all that’s needed if you have a dominant position per Big John.

Khabib held a relatively neutral position for most of the 1st.

Now if you have control time but took a decent amount of damage then that’s a 10-9. If you control a dominant position with 0 damage that’s a 10-8

[Kingslayer04]

Quote: Originally Posted by Phillyboi207

Control is all that’s needed if you have a dominant position per Big John. Khabib held a relatively neutral position for most of the 1st. Now if you have control time but took a decent amount of damage then that’s a 10-9. If you control a dominant position with 0 damage that’s a 10-8

Yeah, I agree, if the position's dominant enough you can make a case too. Good Grappler's post is very good, there can be exhaustion, etc, that are involved as well. Aholbert was asking what would be needed for a 10-8 in game terms though, while we're discussing real life But you can't talk about the one without talking about the other.

[tomitomitomi]

Quote: Originally Posted by Phillyboi207

Control is all that’s needed if you have a dominant position per Big John. Khabib held a relatively neutral position for most of the 1st. Now if you have control time but took a decent amount of damage then that’s a 10-9. If you control a dominant position with 0 damage that’s a 10-8

Not this again.

Here he actually breaks down what goes into scoring a 10-8 round. Whenever he talks about domination he keeps talking about going for submissions or strikes. Trying to stall in mount does not constitute as a 10-8 and even if it did it would be a terrible idea to implement in the game as it would be an extremely unfun style to play against.

I would definitely emphasize damage for a 10-8. However, the issue with the current ground and pound is how black and white the damage system is. For example, it is nigh impossible to KO someone from 100 to 0 in guard. Having 20% health is the same as having 100%. You can throw half a dozen strike and there is no visible or gameplay effect on the fighter but then the 7th love boop drops them dead and the fight is over. If GNP could rock the opponent it would be easier to determine whether you inflicted enough damage.

[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kingslayer04

Yeah, I agree, if the position's dominant enough you can make a case too. Good Grappler's post is very good, there can be exhaustion, etc, that are involved as well. Aholbert was asking what would be needed for a 10-8 in game terms though, while we're discussing real life But you can't talk about the one without talking about the other.

LOL. You guys have to find a way though. Thats why I asked those two questions earlier because simply saying "control" or "postiton over submissions" leaves holes in the judging logic.

Does a guy hanging in half guard for a full round without attempting a sub or any significant damage deserve a 10-8? In that case, he has "control" the whole round. What if they go on bottom is attempting subs?

What if you have total control for 4:30 but I get a close sub in the last :30?

I dont really need real life examples unless those examples led to an actual 10-8 by the real life judges.

[Lauriedr1ver]

Quote: Originally Posted by tomitomitomi

Not this again. Here he actually breaks down what goes into scoring a 10-8 round. Whenever he talks about domination he keeps talking about going for submissions or strikes. Trying to stall in mount does not constitute as a 10-8 and even if it did it would be a terrible idea to implement in the game as it would be an extremely unfun style to play against. I would definitely emphasize damage for a 10-8. However, the issue with the current ground and pound is how black and white the damage system is. For example, it is nigh impossible to KO someone from 100 to 0 in guard. Having 20% health is the same as having 100%. You can throw half a dozen strike and there is no visible or gameplay effect on the fighter but then the 7th love boop drops them dead and the fight is over. If GNP could rock the opponent it would be easier to determine whether you inflicted enough damage.

He also says dangerous postions that your oppenent has to defend to get themselves out. So mount, back mount, crucifix, side saddle are all dangerous postions you oppenent has to defend to get themselves out. He even says everything is based upon postion, for domination.

So we shouldn't put realistic things in as you might not like them nice. Also is stalling in mount possible? People get stood up all the time in mount.

[Phillyboi207]

Quote: Originally Posted by tomitomitomi

Not this again. Here he actually breaks down what goes into scoring a 10-8 round. Whenever he talks about domination he keeps talking about going for submissions or strikes. Trying to stall in mount does not constitute as a 10-8 and even if it did it would be a terrible idea to implement in the game as it would be an extremely unfun style to play against. I would definitely emphasize damage for a 10-8. However, the issue with the current ground and pound is how black and white the damage system is. For example, it is nigh impossible to KO someone from 100 to 0 in guard. Having 20% health is the same as having 100%. You can throw half a dozen strike and there is no visible or gameplay effect on the fighter but then the 7th love boop drops them dead and the fight is over. If GNP could rock the opponent it would be easier to determine whether you inflicted enough damage.

I mean he literally says you can have a 10-8 with little to no damage. He also says it’s all about position.

I dont see why that would be an issue. Onus would be on the bottom fighter to stay active so someone isnt just laying on top of them in mount.

As far as it not being fun it all depends who you ask. If the grappling is tuned to be more fast paced and include more scrambles it definitely can be. There are also plenty of people that enjoy grappling just as much as striking. I dont think it’s fair of you to declare what is considered fun.

[Good Grappler]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

Does a guy hanging in half guard for a full round without attempting a sub or any significant damage deserve a 10-8?

No, because half guard isn’t a dominant position. To win a 10-8 from half guard alone, there would need to be significant damage dealt from GnP.

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

In that case, he has "control" the whole round.

Yes, but again, half guard is not a dominant position. So that shouldn’t warrant a 10-8. To win a 10-8 on control time alone, it would have to be from dominant positions.

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

What if they go on bottom is attempting subs?

This isn’t very set in stone, and is up for debate. The question here is, at what point am I ineligible from winning a 10-8 round? After 5 sub attempts? After 1 close sub? In my opinion, if even one submission gets to the last gate (near finish), 10-8 should be off the table. And even if the subs never get past the first gate, I should still be ineligible for a 10-8, if they attempt say 3 or more. But again, this isn’t clear even in real life judging.

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

What if you have total control for 4:30 but I get a close sub in the last :30?

This should take the 10-8 off the table. If we’re talking CONTROL ALONE, then there should be way less tolerance for error. A single close sub should be enough to move it from 10-8 to 10-9.

IMO, winning a 10-8 on control alone should require a complete shut out - one rock, one near sub, it’s a 10-9.



Basically, to win a 10-8 round using JUST control - without any significant damage or subs - the margin for error should be extremely strict. Even one mistake should bump that 10-8 to a 10-9. Just one near sub should make you ineligible for a 10-8. However, if the fighter doesn’t make any mistakes, and avoids all damage, then it should certainly be possible to win a 10-8 round on control alone, assuming there’s sufficient control time and positional dominance.

Whereas if GnP and sub attempts are also being used, the criteria for a 10-8 should be more lenient, because you’re able to “even out” any damage you absorb with damage of your own. Because theoretically, you can get hurt and end up in 10-9 territory, but land some GnP and move back into 10-8 territory before the rounds over.