Masvidal/Askren (No Spoilers)

[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheGentlemanGhost

Vulnerability in general has kinda been a let down. Even after patching it, you can still get a good half dozen rocks & knockdowns or more in one fight kinda easily. Having things like, needing to input the correct combos to help finish fights when you get a rock just makes the game feel too scripted. There’s a bit too much of that scripted feeling in the game. I mostly play online with this game, and I’d love for it to feel a lot more unpredictable. And EA MMA definitely felt less scripted, I think taking the good from EA MMA would be a bit easier than trying to implement certain things from UD3 for the devs, you can kinda see they’ve transitioned a few little things here & there from EA MMA into this franchise as well. The vulnerability system is somewhat reminiscent of EA MMA, but it’s not quite there. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eXg...&feature=share

I dont think the solution is more vulnerability in that situation. The problem is the block break combos when someone is hurt. I'd argue that 80-90% of the people who play this game dont know about the combos you need to use in order to finish someone in a health event. So that leads to be people getting rocked, hiding behind block and recovering. ****, its what I do 99% of the time when I play online because I know most people dont know how to finish in this game.

Remove that aspect from the game and I believe that alone will reduce the number of health events and knockdowns without finishes in the game.

With that said, you also have to understand what you are asking for. Given the way that most people play, there will be significantly less fights going into late rounds or decisions. With UFC3 offline, I've had to make the choice between increasing the power (which will lead to more clean KOs) or reducing it (which will lead to a realistic number of decisions). I hate that I have to make that choice but the current damage system forces me to.

[Kingslayer04]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

I dont think the solution is more vulnerability in that situation. The problem is the block break combos when someone is hurt. I'd argue that 80-90% of the people who play this game dont know about the combos you need to use in order to finish someone in a health event. So that leads to be people getting rocked, hiding behind block and recovering. ****, its what I do 99% of the time when I play online because I know most people dont know how to finish in this game. Remove that aspect from the game and I believe that alone will reduce the number of health events and knockdowns without finishes in the game. With that said, you also have to understand what you are asking for. Given the way that most people play, there will be significantly less fights going into late rounds or decisions. With UFC3 offline, I've had to make the choice between increasing the power (which will lead to more clean KOs) or reducing it (which will lead to a realistic number of decisions). I hate that I have to make that choice but the current damage system forces me to.

Random thought here: I realised today that my fights barely go to a decision, especially compared to UFC 2. Yeah, you can't 1 hit KO people, yeah, they keep getting up, etc., but most of the fights never go to the judges. Someone's always getting finished. I don't know what to attribute that to. Well, the damage system is much less forgiving than UFC 2, that's for sure. Maybe I just answered my own question.

[Haz____]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

Thats a strange response coming from someone who is always preaching realism. Not every one punch KO comes from a counter or someone being vulnerable (at least in a video game sense). I've seen one shot KOs around people's blocks. I've seen one shot KO's simply because a fighter has his hands down. Those dont occur in UFC 3. The only way to get a one shot KO is as I described through someone whiffing and getting countered or someone guessing wrong with head movement. No bull****, I wish tweaking the game was as easy as you seem to think it is. I have sooooo many issues with the damage system in this game. The lack of standing TKOs. GNP damage and animations. The lack of one shot KOs unless the opponent is extremely vulnerable. I could go on and on. So I disagree that all the team needs to do is "tweak vulnerability logic slightly." Thats likely to result in changes that arent noticable. You think people are going to complain less simply because the game averages 4+ rocks a fight instead of 5+ rocks?

That's a strangely aggressive response. And I think you're misunderstanding me.


Honestly I don't feel like wasting my time arguing though.

[WarMMA]

Here's my take. The more I played this game, the more I realized that I didn't really have a problem with RNG. It was just that the game lacked the vulnerability on counters. Now that they have fixed that, what it lacks now is more flash ko's off of just solid single strikes. For those that watch lots of the sport, yes most flash ko's usually happen from someone getting countered...whether they get hit while they are in mid strike, after they miss, or run into something hard like Askren did. But some flash ko's do happen randomly off of one solid strike. And when I say randomly, I mean the guy wasn't being countered or he didn't run into anything...he just ate a hard shot and went out. That's kinda what the game is lacking and I feel RNG could help with that. So I really wouldn't mind having a bit of RNG back tbh. Now if they could just increase the power of hard single shots to where more flash ko's can happen from them, i'd be fine with that too. Cuz if i'm being honest, I really don't see RNG coming back to this game either.

[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by Haz____

That's a strangely aggressive response. And I think you're misunderstanding me. Honestly I don't feel like wasting my time arguing though.

That wasn't intended to be aggressive at all. I just thought it was strange that you were arguing that vulnerability "tweaks" were all thats was needed when not all real life one shot KO's come from someone being vulnerable (in a video game sense). Thats counter to your consistent "realism above all" stance.

With that said, no need to respond. I'll continue to debate with the folks that want to.

[GameplayDevUFC]

Quote: Originally Posted by WarMMA

Here's my take. The more I played this game, the more I realized that I didn't really have a problem with RNG. It was just that the game lacked the vulnerability on counters. Now that they have fixed that, what it lacks now is more flash ko's off of just solid single strikes.

If you go look back at the patch history, you'll remember that there were many flash KO's early on. Walk off KO's specifically because we did not allow you to dive on your opponent when they were fully KO'd.

Then we patched in the referee interactions which were awesome, and we got tons of complaints that there were too many walk off KO's, and that you should be able to jump on your opponent and finish them.

So we tuned the health overkill needed to get a full on KO up, so that there were more opportunities to dive on your opponent and finish them, and see the referee interactions everyone wanted.

Then finally, we added the ability to dive on an opponent after a full on KO state.

What we probably should have done is go back and revert the tuning that increased the health overkill needed for a KO. It's really an aesthetic change because if you do follow someone to the ground in those situations you will finish the fight. So the finish rate is unchanged from before the tuning. But the number of KO's where you don't have to follow them to the ground is greatly reduced.

I don't think it's a huge deal in the proper MMA mode, but it does get kind of silly in stand and bang where there are no follow up punches.

Regardless, the sequence of changes that led to this is one of my only regrets. If we had ignored the complaints about too many flash KO's, I think we'd be in a pretty good spot right now in terms of flash KO's.

[WarMMA]

Quote: Originally Posted by GameplayDevUFC

If you go look back at the patch history, you'll remember that there were many flash KO's early on. Walk off KO's specifically because we did not allow you to dive on your opponent when they were fully KO'd. Then we patched in the referee interactions which were awesome, and we got tons of complaints that there were too many walk off KO's, and that you should be able to jump on your opponent and finish them. So we tuned the health overkill needed to get a full on KO up, so that there were more opportunities to dive on your opponent and finish them, and see the referee interactions everyone wanted. Then finally, we added the ability to dive on an opponent after a full on KO state. What we probably should have done is go back and revert the tuning that increased the health overkill needed for a KO. It's really an aesthetic change because if you do follow someone to the ground in those situations you will finish the fight. So the finish rate is unchanged from before the tuning. But the number of KO's where you don't have to follow them to the ground is greatly reduced. I don't think it's a huge deal in the proper MMA mode, but it does get kind of silly in stand and bang where there are no follow up punches. Regardless, the sequence of changes that led to this is one of my only regrets. If we had ignored the complaints about too many flash KO's, I think we'd be in a pretty good spot right now in terms of flash KO's.

I'm curious as to if there is any way you guys can tune strike power on certain single strikes (heavy strikes) to where we could see more one shot KO's from them? Like certain strikes like overhands, headkicks, ect, or strikes of high lvl.

[TheRizzzle]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

With UFC3 offline, I've had to make the choice between increasing the power (which will lead to more clean KOs) or reducing it (which will lead to a realistic number of decisions). I hate that I have to make that choice but the current damage system forces me to.

This is because in real life, power very rarely carries late into the fight. A guy like Ngannou, or Rumble Johnson, or Lineker and those one hitter quitter types like them, they aren't those guys in Round 2 and Round 3.

These guys go to decision when they can no longer knock someone out, and they often lose because they can't win a technical fight on points round over round.

And most guys aren't like that at all. They are closer to what we have now, but probably with even less KO power.

Power should be feast or famine, with the famine side being able to pull it off with technique and circumstances only.

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