Masvidal/Askren (No Spoilers)

[johnmangala]

Quote: Originally Posted by Haz____

I don't understand why you need rng for 1 hit KOs? Askren wasn't randomly knocked out. He shot INTO a running flying knee. Peak vulnerability even by video game logic. You can get 1 hit KOs already. For more realism, just tweak vulnerability logic slightly, which is something already talked about as 5+ rocks a fight is pretty average as is.

Quote: Originally Posted by GameplayDevUFC

If you go look back at the patch history, you'll remember that there were many flash KO's early on. Walk off KO's specifically because we did not allow you to dive on your opponent when they were fully KO'd. Then we patched in the referee interactions which were awesome, and we got tons of complaints that there were too many walk off KO's, and that you should be able to jump on your opponent and finish them. So we tuned the health overkill needed to get a full on KO up, so that there were more opportunities to dive on your opponent and finish them, and see the referee interactions everyone wanted. Then finally, we added the ability to dive on an opponent after a full on KO state. What we probably should have done is go back and revert the tuning that increased the health overkill needed for a KO. It's really an aesthetic change because if you do follow someone to the ground in those situations you will finish the fight. So the finish rate is unchanged from before the tuning. But the number of KO's where you don't have to follow them to the ground is greatly reduced. I don't think it's a huge deal in the proper MMA mode, but it does get kind of silly in stand and bang where there are no follow up punches. Regardless, the sequence of changes that led to this is one of my only regrets. If we had ignored the complaints about too many flash KO's, I think we'd be in a pretty good spot right now in terms of flash KO's.

Martial Mind did a video on single strike damage and one hit KOs.

Let the heavier divisions feel like that while the lighter ones are more like how the heavy divisions are now. It would be better if the game had that weight to it.

It's strange you find 'high level' gamers they don't want RNG because they feel it's puts too much luck into the equation and they want it to be more skill based. Irony is it takes more skill under RNG to win then without. Under the correct system the vulnerability is far too consistent, coddling comp gamers. For a true competitive game RNG is a must... The debate is how much is that % not whether it's in or out completely.

Imo it should be like this:

Arcade- Vulnerability 75%, RNG 25%
Sim- Vulnerability 25%, RNG 75%
Default (competitively balanced)- Vulnerability 50%, RNG 50%

[GameplayDevUFC]

Quote: Originally Posted by johnmangala

Martial Mind did a video on single strike damage and one hit KOs. Let the heavier divisions feel like that while the lighter ones are more like how the heavy divisions are now. It would be better if the game had that weight to it. It's strange you find 'high level' gamers they don't want RNG because they feel it's puts too much luck into the equation and they want it to be more skill based. Irony is it takes more skill under RNG to win then without. Under the correct system the vulnerability is far too consistent, coddling comp gamers. For a true competitive game RNG is a must... The debate is how much is that % not whether it's in or out completely. Imo it should be like this: Arcade- Vulnerability 75%, RNG 25% Sim- Vulnerability 25%, RNG 75% Default (competitively balanced)- Vulnerability 50%, RNG 50%

I don't know why you'd think SIM should be 75% rng. That seems ridiculous to me.

How many KO's in the UFC are not based on vulnerability?

Not very many.

And no, it does not take more skill to win under rng. It takes more luck. By the definition of rng.

[johnmangala]

Quote: Originally Posted by GameplayDevUFC

I don't know why you'd think SIM should be 75% rng. That seems ridiculous to me.

Thanks but those were just token numbers, but point taken. I mean to say if default is 50/50% (vul/rng). Sim could be 55/45, 60/40 etc.

Quote: Originally Posted by GameplayDevUFC

How many KO's in the UFC are not based on vulnerability? Not very many.

Every single KO in UFC is based on vulnerability, every single KO in UFC is based on RNG. The exact proportion is unknown to me but I know it could fluctuate.

Quote: Originally Posted by GameplayDevUFC

And no, it does not take more skill to win under rng. It takes more luck. By the definition of rng.

Actually it does I'll prove how- it takes more skill to win under more random conditions than more under consistent conditions, as it is in reality. This is not to say we need ridiculous RNG values, just they should be included in the game in some capacity.

An RNG slider would be entertaining.

[Lauriedr1ver]

Just add mlre vulnerable states and use a higher base damage on unblocking strikes. Keeping your head on the centre line is still a vulnerable position and it feels almlst forgotten.

[Lauriedr1ver]

Quote: Originally Posted by johnmangala

Thanks but those were just token numbers, but point taken. I mean to say if default is 50/50% (vul/rng). Sim could be 55/45, 60/40 etc. Every single KO in UFC is based on vulnerability, every single KO in UFC is based on RNG. The exact proportion is unknown to me but I know it can fluctuate. Actually it does I'll prove how- it takes more skill to win under more random conditions than more under consistent conditions, as it is in reality. This is not to say we need ridiculous RNG values, just they should be included in the game in some capacity. An RNG slider would be entertaining.

Wait so how does more RNG make sense for a more realistic game? Surely you want it to be more consitant to real life then RNG? Or even add the RNG on top of it.

[Kingslayer04]

@GPD, will you respond to my post directed at you?

[johnmangala]

Quote: Originally Posted by Lauriedr1ver

Wait so how does more RNG make sense for a more realistic game? Surely you want it to be more consitant to real life then RNG? Or even add the RNG on top of it.

RNG is random number generator. It replicates the factor of luck and chance. It takes more skill to operate under random/fluctuating conditions than consistent ones, like irl. Currently UFC3 is ~100% vulnerability (consistency).

It doesn't matter to me if it moves from 100/0 to 95/5 or 60/40 (vul/rng). Luck just should be factored back in.

[GameplayDevUFC]

Quote: Originally Posted by johnmangala

Every single KO in UFC is based on vulnerability, every single KO in UFC is based on RNG.

No, not a single KO in the UFC is based on RNG. We're getting pretty metaphysical now, but I'd argue reality is 100% deterministic.

The only reason to use RNG when trying to simulate real life is to try and mimic levels of complexity in real life that you either cannot simulate for whatever reason, or where the user does not have enough control to accurately simulate real life.

Both of those things apply to every video game representation of the sport.

The question is always how best to deal with it. RNG is an option, but not the only one.

But in real life, no there is no RNG. Real life is complex, but not random.