Cheesy idiots in ranked (video)

[NEWSS]

Quote: Originally Posted by RetractedMonkey

Well, let's see. You were doing well using the straight into lead hook combo but then stopped doing that even though it stopped him dead in his tracks every time. You didn't evade the flying knee btw. You major lunged way before he even threw it and then ended up eating it. That wasn't a fault in the game, you just mistimed badly. You shouldn't be using major movements like that early into the first round anyway. You threw body kicks from good range, but then stopped doing that and ended up throwing a body kick from clinch range (???) right after you had just been rocked (?????) and then got rocked immediately again. Didn't use any ducks to avoid his elbows and overhands. You can easily fit those in between flying knees if you're judicious. Decided to exchange along the cage instead of circling out and exploiting his use of high stamina consuming strikes of which he had no finesse or craft in using. This isn't cheese. This is a flat out unviable strategy that became viable due to egregious player error. Nonetheless, elbow-knee, and elbow-spinning elbow shouldn't even be a thing. It looks stupid and if the player knows what they are doing, the knee-elbow can still be a big nuisance due to the high-low variable. This isn't an insult to you, but you'll probably take it that way. I'm here to spread the facts regardless. If you use your tools effectively, you can easily blow dudes like this tf out. However, you did a great job switching to your more effective playstyle of grappling when the cards were down. Good use of takedowns and this guy had no idea what he was doing on the ground. Good decision.

Thank you for the tips, my post was mostly aimed at showing a perfect example of an idiot player: fake glove touch into overhand, taunting when knocks you down, extreme use of not so realistic combos etc.


The clinch range body kick was a stupid mistake I know (I thought he was going to walk backward so I could hit him in a good range). I still feel, and I'm glad you agree, that those lightning fast knee-elbow/elbow-spinning elbow are too powerful, 1 split second and you're rocked. I saw someone effectively using similar strategies at div. 5/6 btw, a bit less extreme but similar.

[Lakers 24 7]

Quote: Originally Posted by RetractedMonkey

Well, let's see. You were doing well using the straight into lead hook combo but then stopped doing that even though it stopped him dead in his tracks every time. You didn't evade the flying knee btw. You major lunged way before he even threw it and then ended up eating it. That wasn't a fault in the game, you just mistimed badly. You shouldn't be using major movements like that early into the first round anyway. You threw body kicks from good range, but then stopped doing that and ended up throwing a body kick from clinch range (???) right after you had just been rocked (?????) and then got rocked immediately again. Didn't use any ducks to avoid his elbows and overhands. You can easily fit those in between flying knees if you're judicious. Decided to exchange along the cage instead of circling out and exploiting his use of high stamina consuming strikes of which he had no finesse or craft in using. This isn't cheese. This is a flat out unviable strategy that became viable due to egregious player error. Nonetheless, elbow-knee, and elbow-spinning elbow shouldn't even be a thing. It looks stupid and if the player knows what they are doing, the knee-elbow can still be a big nuisance due to the high-low variable. This isn't an insult to you, but you'll probably take it that way. I'm here to spread the facts regardless. If you use your tools effectively, you can easily blow dudes like this tf out. However, you did a great job switching to your more effective playstyle of grappling when the cards were down. Good use of takedowns and this guy had no idea what he was doing on the ground. Good decision.

Anything unrealistic is cheese, doesn't matter if it's viable or not. What the other player did was unrealistic, so definitely a cheese strat. No one should have to beat unrealistic tactics, that's not the point of a sports sim.

[RetractedMonkey]

Quote: Originally Posted by Lakers 24 7

Anything unrealistic is cheese, doesn't matter if it's viable or not. What the other player did was unrealistic, so definitely a cheese strat. The other player shouldn't have to beat unrealistic tactics, that's not the point of a sports sim.

"Cheese" is generally meant to be something that is easy to do and hard to counter. If you would like to make your own definition for the word cheese, that's fine, but understand that most people in the FGC will not be on the same page as you.

And this is in fact an FG AND a sports game.

Either way, you will never make a game that is fully realistic because a human can do whatever they want to do with their character. If I wanted to throw only rear body hooks the whole fight, I can do that and there is nothing a developer could do to stop me.

That's why your definition is wrong and you know it. You wouldn't call that playstyle cheese because rear body hooks are super counterable even if it's an unrealistic playstyle.

[Lakers 24 7]

Quote: Originally Posted by RetractedMonkey

"Cheese" is generally meant to be something that is easy to do and hard to counter. If you would like to make your own definition for the word cheese, that's fine, but understand that most people in the FGC will not be on the same page as you. And this is in fact an FG AND a sports game. Either way, you will never make a game that is fully realistic because a human can do whatever they want to do with their character. If I wanted to throw only rear body hooks the whole fight, I can do that and there is nothing a developer could do to stop me. That's why your definition is wrong and you know it. You wouldn't call that playstyle cheese because rear body hooks are super counterable even if it's an unrealistic playstyle.

In madden, players who constantly went for it on fourth down were considered cheesers. One of many examples of cheese in that game. It's not an exploit. It can be stopped and it wasn't easy to pull off, yet they were still considered cheesers that most sim heads didn't want to play against.

Yes, a game will never be perfect which is why there will always be cheesers. Unfortunately, in the case of UFC 3, there's a lot the developers could have done to make unrealistic strategies impossible and force players to a more realistic play-style.

[tomitomitomi]

To be more specific, cheese is a low-skill tactic which relies on the opponent not expecting it. If the opponent predicts it then the cheese is (usually) easily neutralized. Something like fake glove touch into an overhand definitely counts as cheese no matter how "realistic" it is.

If cheese simply referred to everything unrealistic then it would be a redundant term since the word unrealistic already exists.

Plus, you are delusional if you think UFC 3 (or 4 for that matter) tries to be a sports sim.

[Lakers 24 7]

Quote: Originally Posted by tomitomitomi

To be more specific, cheese is a low-skill tactic which relies on the opponent not expecting it. If the opponent predicts it then the cheese is (usually) easily neutralized. Something like fake glove touch into an overhand definitely counts as cheese no matter how "realistic" it is. If cheese simply referred to everything unrealistic then it would be a redundant term since the word unrealistic already exists. Plus, you are delusional if you think UFC 3 (or 4 for that matter) tries to be a sports sim.

They market it as a realistic simulation, but obviously it doesn't deliver in that regard.

You're entitled to your opinion on what cheese is and isn't. I'm just telling you how it started and how it was used about 15 or so years ago.

[tomitomitomi]

Quote: Originally Posted by Lakers 24 7

They market it as a realistic simulation, but obviously it doesn't deliver in that regard.

This simply isn't true. Are you gonna call Battlefield a simulator next?

Quote:

You're entitled to your opinion on what cheese is and isn't. I'm just telling you how it started and how it was used about 15 or so years ago.

Here is a definition for cheese from 1992. Literally nothing to do with realism

Here's the background for my definition of cheese

But hey you are entitled to your opinion.

[RetractedMonkey]

I wonder what kind of logic it will take to leap over that definition from 1992. Completely ignored the rebuff I gave for his definition using the body hook example too.

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