What's wrong with me?

[tomitomitomi]

Quote: Originally Posted by ragreynolds

Damage is obviously a big issue too. There are many examples of fights were fighters are rocked countless times and knocked down countless times, only to keep recovering. It often feels like there's a lack of consistancy with some of these health events imo. There have been many times where I've rocked my opponent 5+ times, and also knocked him down a couple of times, only for my opponent to then finish me with the very first knockdown he gets out of nowhere. Obviously, I understand that stats are probably involved here, and it depends on which fighter you are using, but it can still be pretty frustrating since it doesn't feel as though that single knockdown was any better timed or placed than any of the knockdowns I got prior to that one.

Is this necessarily a bad thing? One of my biggest pet peeves with FNC was that you could land the most devastating power strike of all time only for your opponent to get up in two seconds because it was his first knockdown, only for him to get TKO'd by a jab that drops him for the third time.

[Lauriedr1ver]

Quote: Originally Posted by ryangil23

Wouldn’t necessarily say it’s the polar opposite of the real world when camping is really more realistic than sprinting around in a war zone. As for fifa, most lesser teams play defensively when they come up against one of the better teams. You rarely see a team like Levante play a high line and press Barcelona or Real Madrid for example. They sit on the edge of their own box, all 11 players back and try and feed off scraps on the counter.

And it doesnt work effectively as theres limitations unlike fifa. Sitting deep irl has major issues that any good team can get passed. Unfortunately fifa doesnt do that

[RomeroXVII]

Quote: Originally Posted by Haz____

And then Yoel and Adesanya went 25 minutes and only threw ~100 strikes. Yoel actually threw less than 100 strikes in 25 total minutes of fighting. There is literally no argument for throwing ~120-140 strikes in 3 minutes. On the regular. As a normal thing. No matter the weight class, no matter the fighter. Like how UFC 3 works. In UFC 3 it doesnt matter if it's Woodley, Conor, Yoel, Silva, Machida, Vitor, or anyone. Chances are, they are coming forward with non stop striking. It is objectively unrealistic. Extreme outlier cases are not evidence, or arguments for that, and we both know this. Just like I'm not going to make a post about how low volume Yoel vs Adesanya was as some kind of argument for my point. Extreme outliers in the other direction are just the same. Outliers. We both know this though. Not to mention... they are 115lbs fighters, fighting in actual real time. Don't be a troll Romero.

I think it was pretty clear I was referring to the fact that you refer to somebody utilizing a reasonable strike that's working on you "spam." Think back to how you posted that thread way way way back on somebody landing Overhands on you and you complained that it was broken. You could have blocked them, could have ducked, could have lunged, could have intercepted them, could have clinched him, could have taken him down, instead you ate them.

If it's working, I'll keep doing it.

Now I have given my take on stamina, damage many times over these forums and you and I have both come to the conclusion that we agree on a lot on what has to be fixed.

For a GAME, especially a game like this that has so many different factors affecting how combat works, you would need to definitely revamp the clinch and damage/block. On the flipside with Romero and Adesanya, think of the concept of vulnerability.

Adesanya had to be cautious of Yoel's power, when he got impatient once he got hit pretty hard and acknowledged that. Liken that to how people are generally worried about going to the body in the game because of the vulnerability spike with eating an uppercut.

I PERSONALLY think, if you reduce the block health and slightly increase the damage +strength some outside fighting tools + cage cutting, that would change things drastically as people get better at the game.

At the end of the day though, if somebody wants to play a VIDEO GAME, and throw 100 strikes, I'm not going to shame them for playing a game the way THEY want to play that THEY spent money on.

However, I do think if you bring in the things I mentioned + a few other suggestions, it would make that specific style that gives you a heart attack less viable and a non-issue for anybody that has patience and a brain. Especially if the stamina recovery between rounds changes drastically.



Anywho, other than something being gamebreaking and breaking all rules of physics (like the initial jab spinning head kick speed, bobblehead counter multiplier season, feints speeding up strikes, the block break bug etc etc) if my eyes can visually see somebody doing something over and over again, and I'm not doing anything about it, that is on me. I'm not going to cry to the ref that somebody is 'spamming' me with jabs in a real fight, that's ridiculous.


My goal, like it is for UFC 3 and for the next game, will be to help players with videos to utilize ALL of the tools available to play the game how THEY want to play the game, I hope that fighters will have a bit more uniqueness to their strengths and that it requires players to play to those strengths and acknowledge their weakness, and I hope that recognizing a specific 'meta' won't be absolutely necessary to climb the ranks of the game as well.

[ryangil23]

I’ll say it. If you make it so you can only throw like 70, 80 strikes a round and most fighters start gassing, it’ll be terrible. In a perfect world you could correctly balance everything but that’s never going to happen and I’d rather see the game played at a slightly higher pace than real life rather than lower.

I just fear that they will over-correct it and things will go the total opposite way.

[Lauriedr1ver]

Maybe make stirkes less accurate as a whole and make them far for easy to miss byy even a little. Thats could go some way to helping stamina without having to change a whole lot.

[Haz____]

Quote: Originally Posted by RomeroXVII

I think it was pretty clear I was referring to the fact that you refer to somebody utilizing a reasonable strike that's working on you "spam." Think back to how you posted that thread way way way back on somebody landing Overhands on you and you complained that it was broken. You could have blocked them, could have ducked, could have lunged, could have intercepted them, could have clinched him, could have taken him down, instead you ate them. If it's working, I'll keep doing it.

Bruh. Smh.

Here is that thread, from 3 years ago, during the beta.

https://forums.operationsports.com/f...-overhand.html

To jog your memory the Beta was live from December 1 to December 5. This thread was created on Dec 4.

I just read through the entire thread. Not 1 time did I, or any one else for that matter say anything was spam, or broken. In fact the word spam doesn't appear a single time throughout that entire thread.

In fact, the only thing I said, along with with the video was "This strike is annoying. Stamina is stupid.".


And upon further reading through the thread, it looks like my issues were actually with the effects of low stamina on movement speed, striking speed & power. A lack of smoothness, and responsiveness in the headmovment. And a general reliance on the use of combos to break the block and get the finish.

I'm pretty sure, considering this was the beta, most of those things actually were touched on in patches.

Very strange, and almost kind of petty, bizarre thing to bring up 3 years later. It also shows your weird obsession with the word "spam".

Quote: Originally Posted by RomeroXVII

For a GAME, especially a game like this that has so many different factors affecting how combat works, you would need to definitely revamp the clinch and damage/block. On the flipside with Romero and Adesanya, think of the concept of vulnerability. Adesanya had to be cautious of Yoel's power, when he got impatient once he got hit pretty hard and acknowledged that. Liken that to how people are generally worried about going to the body in the game because of the vulnerability spike with eating an uppercut. I PERSONALLY think, if you reduce the block health and slightly increase the damage +strength some outside fighting tools + cage cutting, that would change things drastically as people get better at the game.

Ok, so we pretty much agree here. I do think there is objectively issues with stamina, in a few different ways as well, but I agree with all of this.

Quote: Originally Posted by RomeroXVII

However, I do think if you bring in the things I mentioned + a few other suggestions, it would make that specific style that gives you a heart attack less viable and a non-issue for anybody that has patience and a brain. Especially if the stamina recovery between rounds changes drastically.

This is interesting. I'm curious what you're thinking here.

Quote: Originally Posted by RomeroXVII

Anywho, other than something being gamebreaking and breaking all rules of physics (like the initial jab spinning head kick speed, bobblehead counter multiplier season, feints speeding up strikes, the block break bug etc etc) if my eyes can visually see somebody doing something over and over again, and I'm not doing anything about it, that is on me. I'm not going to cry to the ref that somebody is 'spamming' me with jabs in a real fight, that's ridiculous.

This is just bizarre. Is this directed at me? Because I have never talked like that about anything. I have never called a jab, or any strikes like that spam ever. When I'm saying "spam", What im referring to, is the absurd levels of output people can reach in a single round. Strike totals as high as 160 strikes in a 3 minute round. To me, that is "spam". I'm not saying "this guy is throwing flying knees over and over and I can't stop it. Make him stop spamming knees." That's not what I am saying at all. I'm saying throwing an entire 15 minute fights worth of strikes in a single 3 minute round is "spam". And by spam, I mean, it's nonsense. It's lame. It's absurd. It's fluff. It's not realistic. It's just bleed button mashing. It's spam.

I really don't know why you are so hung up on the word spam. And I feel like you are just dramatically misunderstanding me.

Quote: Originally Posted by RomeroXVII

My goal, like it is for UFC 3 and for the next game, will be to help players with videos to utilize ALL of the tools available to play the game how THEY want to play the game, I hope that fighters will have a bit more uniqueness to their strengths and that it requires players to play to those strengths and acknowledge their weakness, and I hope that recognizing a specific 'meta' won't be absolutely necessary to climb the ranks of the game as well.

Let's hope we get somewhere close to this. I agree with you on most, if not all points.

[Haz____]

Quote: Originally Posted by ryangil23

I’ll say it. If you make it so you can only throw like 70, 80 strikes a round and most fighters start gassing, it’ll be terrible. In a perfect world you could correctly balance everything but that’s never going to happen and I’d rather see the game played at a slightly higher pace than real life rather than lower. I just fear that they will over-correct it and things will go the total opposite way.

I truly cannot comprehend this. Terrible? 80 strikes in 3 minutes is a lot...

Also, the current output isnt "slightly higher", it's dramatically higher. Easily 2-4 times higher than real life striking totals.

Also, no one is asking for "less than real life" striking output. Like, what? Wut?

We are looking for a fair compromise between fun video game, and something resembling reality.

[RomeroXVII]

Quote: Originally Posted by Haz____

Bruh. Smh. Here is that thread, from 3 years ago, during the beta. https://forums.operationsports.com/f...-overhand.html To jog your memory the Beta was live from December 1 to December 5. This thread was created on Dec 4. I just read through the entire thread. Not 1 time did I, or any one else for that matter say anything was spam, or broken. In fact the word spam doesn't appear a single time throughout that entire thread. In fact, the only thing I said, along with with the video was "This strike is annoying. Stamina is stupid.". And upon further reading through the thread, it looks like my issues were actually with the effects of low stamina on movement speed, striking speed & power. A lack of smoothness, and responsiveness in the headmovment. And a general reliance on the use of combos to break the block and get the finish. I'm pretty sure, considering this was the beta, most of those things actually were touched on in patches. Very strange, and almost kind of petty, bizarre thing to bring up 3 years later. It also shows your weird obsession with the word "spam". Ok, so we pretty much agree here. I do think there is objectively issues with stamina, in a few different ways as well, but I agree with all of this. This is interesting. I'm curious what you're thinking here. This is just bizarre. Is this directed at me? Because I have never talked like that about anything. I have never called a jab, or any strikes like that spam ever. When I'm saying "spam", What im referring to, is the absurd levels of output people can reach in a single round. Strike totals as high as 160 strikes in a 3 minute round. To me, that is "spam". I'm not saying "this guy is throwing flying knees over and over and I can't stop it. Make him stop spamming knees." That's not what I am saying at all. I'm saying throwing an entire 15 minute fights worth of strikes in a single 3 minute round is "spam". And by spam, I mean, it's nonsense. It's lame. It's absurd. It's fluff. It's not realistic. It's just bleed button mashing. It's spam. I really don't know why you are so hung up on the word spam. And I feel like you are just dramatically misunderstanding me. Let's hope we get somewhere close to this. I agree with you on most, if not all points.

https://forums.operationsports.com/f...imbalance.html

"
It's very annoying.

Great, now I get to spam sidestep.

Fun times. Good gameplay."

That's not even referring to strikes thrown, that's referring to one of small defensive footwork manuevers we have in the the game against linear strikes.

A lot of times I see you refer to a lot of things as "spam" so whenever I see your name in a post I can usually expect you to say spam this and spam that.

So calling it an obsession on my end, when I rarely use the word (other than in a video to HELP players deal with things that can somewhat deemed 'spammable' within the right context), and you use the word the MOST, seems off.


Anywho, the stamina recovery in between rounds is part of the bigger issue. Yes we expect the elite fighters to have better recovery than the other fighters, but when they have so much more stamina to pull out of their respective pool, in three round fights, they can throw 100+ STANDING strikes and as long as they're accurate to about 50% of them and land on the block with most of them, they'll have at most 80% of their stamina heading into Round 2, and still have just enough in Round 3 to cruise.


I think, if we lower the long term stamina tax on moves like headkicks (because whiffing 3-5 headkicks takes more LT Stam, than blitzing 50 3 piece combos) by a SMIDGE, and actually tax Long term stamina on COMBINATIONS, that would fix a LOT of the issues you and I both have in the game.

I don't have an issue with somebody hitting a strike total of say 40 shots landed, 80 attempted in round one in a video game.

You'd have to be crazy not to admit though, whether you're an elite player or not, that realistically, throwing in combinatiom over a prolonged period of time will NOT have an effect on you. The lactic acid builds up, and it plays a factor in the later rounds, maybe not so much with the guys 155 and down but definitely in the higher weight classes for the most part.

Hell, even with Weili and Joanna, they weren't going too crazy above a 3 piece with their combinations, and they went to that crazy threshold of 700+ strikes thrown. But a vast majority of their strikes were one to two shots thrown, and combinations when they got comfortable, something I definitely feel all of these fighters are capable of doing on a bag or in light sparring, but the threat of being knocked out, taken down, clinched, driven to the cage, etc etc all plays a role in how many strikes are thrown.

So if you have four piece combinations drain, hell, if not that, combinations in SUCCESSION drain a lot more from the LT Stam/Stamina Pool, then that would change things a lot + reducing block health and increasing damage.

If you want to throw 150 strikes in Round One to try and get the dude out of there with overwhelming damage and pressure, THAT can be viable too. But may the MMA Gods help you in Round 2 if your opponent moved well, defended well, countered a bit here and there, and now you're down to 60-70% stamina and used up all of your stamina in the recovery pool to where you won't have anything for Round 3.