Will strikers be able to defeat ground Caesars more easily?

[TheGentlemanGhost]

Quote: Originally Posted by PapaLemur

lmao You're ignoring logic to save your ego. Viable defense to the clinch is irrelevant when we're discussing the mechanics? Do you people even listen to yourselves? Hahaha.

What ego? You've been boasting this "get good" mentality from the jump, just chill out. This isn't about how good you or I may be in any aspect of the game. It's about the poor implication of the MT clinch which makes the strikes from that position more dominant than it should be, hence, all the clinch spam. People can defend the spam and still see the flaw in the mechanic. The point is the devs need to implement MT clinch striking much more realistically so it's not a go to for a hailmary win. People have an unrealistic advantage in striking with the MT clinch in UFC 2 and hopefully it's tuned.

IRL, we've seem clinchers get rocked and we've seen people attack their body so much, the clincher let's go. I definitely wouldn't mind seeing that level of balance into the MT clinch. In UFC 2, there are no real next level clinch strikers, b/c pretty much all the fighters become elite KO artists in that position.

[PapaLemur]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheGentlemanGhost

What ego? You've been boasting this "get good" mentality from the jump, just chill out. This isn't about how good you or I may be in any aspect of the game. It's about the poor implication of the MT clinch which makes the strikes from that position more dominant than it should be, hence, all the clinch spam. People can defend the spam and still see the flaw in the mechanic. The point is the devs need to implement MT clinch striking much more realistically so it's not a go to for a hailmary win. People have an unrealistic advantage in striking with the MT clinch in UFC 2 and hopefully it's tuned. IRL, we've seem clinchers get rocked and we've seen people attack their body so much, the clincher let's go. I definitely wouldn't mind seeing that level of balance into the MT clinch. In UFC 2, there are no real next level clinch strikers, b/c pretty much all the fighters become elite KO artists in that position.

No. Just no. Like I said to the other guy, just because the clinch isn't ideal doesn't mean the system is broken. Yeah, it can be improved in the ways you've said, but it works absolutely fine. You are unable to fathom that the clinch actually works for people so it MUST be broken. You just aren't good enough to experience that reality.

The clinch being a hail Mary only exists at the lower tiers. You simply can't abuse me in the clinch even with a 100 overall CAF. If you ever watch Kenetic play you can see him and an equal player go back and forth in the clinch with no problems. Neither one obtains a clear advantage because they took the time to figure it all out.

[TheGentlemanGhost]

Quote: Originally Posted by PapaLemur

No. Just no. Like I said to the other guy, just because the clinch isn't ideal doesn't mean the system is broken. Yeah, it can be improved in the ways you've said, but it works absolutely fine. You are unable to fathom that the clinch actually works for people so it MUST be broken. You just aren't good enough to experience that reality. The clinch being a hail Mary only exists at the lower tiers. You simply can't abuse me in the clinch even with a 100 overall CAF. If you ever watch Kenetic play you can see him and an equal player go back and forth in the clinch with no problems. Neither one obtains a clear advantage because they took the time to figure it all out.

Again, this isn't about the skill of defending it or figuring out, I'm glad you and others have a 100% defense rate from MT strikes, but I'm more so around 90% lol, ok. But Again, this is about the fact the clinch spamming is done often because it only takes one or two knee or elbow strikes to kd or ko the opponent. Literally every fighter has the finishing ability in the clinch like Jon Jones or Overeem when strikes do connect, think about that, that is how the MTC is broken/OP. This is simply about the way the strikes are programmed into the game as well as the lack of significant offense you can muster once in the MT clinch.

The balance is nonexistent for MTC. You should be able to have some kind of significant offense to counter the MT clinch and shouldn't be ALL defense once you are in the MT clinch, that's the other huge issue with it...balance. The current state of MTC should only work this way if the opponent is fatigued or stunned, but not when both fighters are fresh and unphased. There's no reason you should be completely nullified from dealing significant damage when the MTC is applied & you're fresh.

The clinch should be balanced enough to where NOBODY wants to spam it and only use it for strategy and with the right match ups.

[ZombieRommel]

Single collar clinch:

• Initiates too fast. It comes out like lightning and the defender basically has to be sitting on the deny to stop it.
• Can unrealistically suck people in as they're punching, removing the momentum of the punch. This is in fact broken in my opinion.
• Allows players to use knees to the thigh and body to completely halt transition attempts, allowing players to stall there excessively without even needing to correctly manually deny.
• Is extremely hard to punish. The window for the free strike after denying the clinch attempt is short and there isn't a significant damage bonus.
• Can be spammed over and over without the fighter gassing, even if he is denied repeatedly.

In UFC2, I think the SC clinch is awful. The risk / reward ratio is totally off. The risk of being intercepted, punished on deny, or gassing is way too small compared to the reward incurred to the player who initiates the clinch. The clinch allows players to stall out the match and hold you static as if they have super glue on their hands. It allows players to completely flee from the striking element of the game if they don't feel confident there. It allows players to react to any transition attempt with knees to completely halt the attempt.

The clinch mechanics from UFC2 need a lot of work in general, and the single collar clinch in particular is imbalanced in the framework of the design as a whole for the reasons stated above.