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sanders · 06-22-2004, 06:34 PM

They can't just "throw them in" they still have do develop them. They have only been around for 4 or 5 years so they haven't had as much time to make all these things. Plus having to compete with Madden they really need to focus on the core of the game the most so I see your point but I agree with what VC has done so far.

Tears2040 · 06-22-2004, 06:41 PM

Quote:

sanders said:
They can't just "throw them in" they still have do develop them. They have only been around for 4 or 5 years so they haven't had as much time to make all these things. Plus having to compete with Madden they really need to focus on the core of the game the most so I see your point but I agree with what VC has done so far.

The developers have been around for years, making football games though.

Also alot of people who used to develop Madden now work for Visaul Concepts, as a matter of fact I think one of the lead developers for Madden was the one who started V.C> several years ago. I read the article in a magazine a long time ago.

What Madden lacks to me is control, in ESPn I feel like I'm in total control as opposed to Madden where things just happen

, peace

wwharton · 06-23-2004, 12:12 AM

it's funny but madden fans say this and fans of both games would NEVER say anything like this. the reason espn is the first football game EVER to coexist in the same conversation as madden (gameday doesn't count b/c it's peak was when madden took a year off) is b/c they make their own game, played their own way and many agree that the style is better than madden. with that said they've made many changes to make it more "madden friendly" just last year. but touching anything involving gameplay, buttons for moves, etc. would just be silly. many fans of espn would say they'd be dumbing the game down (see LBz's post) if they were to make it like madden. even if you don't agree with that, the games have two totally different styles and trying to adopt EA's style for the sake of madden fans would make no sense at all. there are already 2 games out with that style.

vchadl · 06-23-2004, 01:42 AM

I disagree with the last post. Madden outsells everyone and will this year. VC needs to convince the Maddens heads that this is a better game. If it means having an option to allow the button sceme to be identicle to Maddens then go for it. It eliminates the learning curve and people are instinaly confortable with the controls. Nothings more frustrating than fumbling with the controller and learning a new button sceme. I would wager that that is main main reason people don't stick with the ESPN title, the pick it up, thier brain is conditioned to the button sceme of Madden, they get tired of fighting it, and then take the game out and play Madden. I'll give an example, I love SOCOM 2 and the controller sceme. I've been dying for a third person shooter to come out and then Syphon Filter hit the market....I was stoked until I played the demo, the control felt [censored] backwards and unintuitive compared to SOCOM. I played Syohon Filter for probably 5 minutes then gave up and I have no intention of even looking at it again. All because the controls weren't like SOCOM. Right, Wrong or indifferent. Needless to say, I didn't buy Syphon Filter.

njskillz · 06-23-2004, 07:55 AM

The only thing VC needs to copy from Madden is the open field running animations. That's it. When it comes to gameplay and a realistic look, Madden needs to take a look at ESPN, not vice versa. ESPN "dumb down" the game last year in order to appeal to Maddenites and almost "F"d up big time. As LB said, they need to refocus on defense. Let Madden have the 60-57 shootouts, that's not ESPN football.

coogrfan · 06-23-2004, 09:55 AM

Quote:

TheBadazz said:
Boy one thing I love to see is when a Madden player push and hold speed burst and they start charging up. They always say he's not going faster. Then I have to tell them 2K series don't have a lazy "turbo" button, it has a "Speed burst" button there's a difference.

No, in the 2k series you have the absurd spectacle of a players top speed being dependant on a gamers ability to rapidly tap buttons. Why should Michael Vick run faster for you than he can for me simply because you're better at button mashing? Imo that sort of arcade nonsense is out of place in a game as sim-oriented as this one.

coogrfan · 06-23-2004, 10:07 AM

Quote:

sanders said:
The controls for Madden aren't better - I hate having speed burst be one button for offense and another button for defense.

As far a copying Madden that just a dumb idea (no intent to offend) because even if Madden does it well I bet it can be done better. As soon as you start copying your no longer innovating. I would like to see more in Franchise mode yes for sure. I like where VC is going in Franchise better than Madden - instead of Owners mode - you can train for your upcoming matchup and up players stats that you want. You really need to use 3 receiver sets - work on the WRs. Sounds cool.

If anyone should copy anyone both VC and EA should copy the offseason and play-create features of the old PC Football Game Front Page Sports Football. You can focus on areas of your game in the offseason and literally create any kind of play you wanted - any kind of WR route - anything.

The reason the speed burst buttons are different on off. and def. is because most longtime Madden players are used to it being that way. However, EA did include alternate button configs that allow you to have them both on the same button if you want, so this isn't a legitimate gripe.

As for the rest, you seem to be saying that EA is incapable of creating anything worth emulating. You really can't get any more close-minded than that.

Graphik · 06-23-2004, 10:13 AM

Quote:

coogrfan said:

Quote:

TheBadazz said:
Boy one thing I love to see is when a Madden player push and hold speed burst and they start charging up. They always say he's not going faster. Then I have to tell them 2K series don't have a lazy "turbo" button, it has a "Speed burst" button there's a difference.

No, in the 2k series you have the absurd spectacle of a players top speed being dependant on a gamers ability to rapidly tap buttons. Why should Michael Vick run faster for you than he can for me simply because you're better at button mashing? Imo that sort of arcade nonsense is out of place in a game as sim-oriented as this one.

One thing I feel about the speed burst bottons is with ESPN, I actually feel like I'm in charge of the runners speed. Its nothing like being in a footrace to the endzone against a defensive player and your botton mashing actually feels like you're doing the running. I did'nt like the botton mashing at first until I got into that very scenario.

Madden does'nt really bother me also but its not as immersive as ESPN in terms of getting a speed burst. And thats what seperates Madden from ESPN IMO, immersivness.

06-22-2004, 06:34 PM	#17
sanders Rookie OVR: 3 Join Date: May 2003	Re: Make it a little more like madden They can't just "throw them in" they still have do develop them. They have only been around for 4 or 5 years so they haven't had as much time to make all these things. Plus having to compete with Madden they really need to focus on the core of the game the most so I see your point but I agree with what VC has done so far.

06-22-2004, 06:41 PM	#18
Tears2040 Banned OVR: 4 Join Date: May 2003	Re: Make it a little more like madden Quote: *sanders said:* They can't just "throw them in" they still have do develop them. They have only been around for 4 or 5 years so they haven't had as much time to make all these things. Plus having to compete with Madden they really need to focus on the core of the game the most so I see your point but I agree with what VC has done so far. The developers have been around for years, making football games though. Also alot of people who used to develop Madden now work for Visaul Concepts, as a matter of fact I think one of the lead developers for Madden was the one who started V.C> several years ago. I read the article in a magazine a long time ago. What Madden lacks to me is control, in ESPn I feel like I'm in total control as opposed to Madden where things just happen , peace

06-23-2004, 12:12 AM	#19
wwharton ll Str OVR: 28 Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 26,978	Re: Make it a little more like madden it's funny but madden fans say this and fans of both games would NEVER say anything like this. the reason espn is the first football game EVER to coexist in the same conversation as madden (gameday doesn't count b/c it's peak was when madden took a year off) is b/c they make their own game, played their own way and many agree that the style is better than madden. with that said they've made many changes to make it more "madden friendly" just last year. but touching anything involving gameplay, buttons for moves, etc. would just be silly. many fans of espn would say they'd be dumbing the game down (see LBz's post) if they were to make it like madden. even if you don't agree with that, the games have two totally different styles and trying to adopt EA's style for the sake of madden fans would make no sense at all. there are already 2 games out with that style.

06-23-2004, 01:42 AM	#20
vchadl Banned OVR: 1 Join Date: Feb 2004	Re: Make it a little more like madden I disagree with the last post. Madden outsells everyone and will this year. VC needs to convince the Maddens heads that this is a better game. If it means having an option to allow the button sceme to be identicle to Maddens then go for it. It eliminates the learning curve and people are instinaly confortable with the controls. Nothings more frustrating than fumbling with the controller and learning a new button sceme. I would wager that that is main main reason people don't stick with the ESPN title, the pick it up, thier brain is conditioned to the button sceme of Madden, they get tired of fighting it, and then take the game out and play Madden. I'll give an example, I love SOCOM 2 and the controller sceme. I've been dying for a third person shooter to come out and then Syphon Filter hit the market....I was stoked until I played the demo, the control felt [censored] backwards and unintuitive compared to SOCOM. I played Syohon Filter for probably 5 minutes then gave up and I have no intention of even looking at it again. All because the controls weren't like SOCOM. Right, Wrong or indifferent. Needless to say, I didn't buy Syphon Filter.

06-23-2004, 07:55 AM	#21
njskillz Pro OVR: 7 Join Date: Jul 2002	Re: Make it a little more like madden The only thing VC needs to copy from Madden is the open field running animations. That's it. When it comes to gameplay and a realistic look, Madden needs to take a look at ESPN, not vice versa. ESPN "dumb down" the game last year in order to appeal to Maddenites and almost "F"d up big time. As LB said, they need to refocus on defense. Let Madden have the 60-57 shootouts, that's not ESPN football.

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06-23-2004, 09:55 AM	#22
coogrfan #HTownTakeover #YWCF OVR: 27 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 15,576	Re: Make it a little more like madden Quote: *TheBadazz said:* Boy one thing I love to see is when a Madden player push and hold speed burst and they start charging up. They always say he's not going faster. Then I have to tell them 2K series don't have a lazy "turbo" button, it has a "Speed burst" button there's a difference. No, in the 2k series you have the absurd spectacle of a players top speed being dependant on a gamers ability to rapidly tap buttons. Why should Michael Vick run faster for you than he can for me simply because you're better at button mashing? Imo that sort of arcade nonsense is out of place in a game as sim-oriented as this one.

06-23-2004, 10:07 AM	#23
coogrfan #HTownTakeover #YWCF OVR: 27 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 15,576	Re: Make it a little more like madden Quote: *sanders said:* The controls for Madden aren't better - I hate having speed burst be one button for offense and another button for defense. As far a copying Madden that just a dumb idea (no intent to offend) because even if Madden does it well I bet it can be done better. As soon as you start copying your no longer innovating. I would like to see more in Franchise mode yes for sure. I like where VC is going in Franchise better than Madden - instead of Owners mode - you can train for your upcoming matchup and up players stats that you want. You really need to use 3 receiver sets - work on the WRs. Sounds cool. If anyone should copy anyone both VC and EA should copy the offseason and play-create features of the old PC Football Game Front Page Sports Football. You can focus on areas of your game in the offseason and literally create any kind of play you wanted - any kind of WR route - anything. The reason the speed burst buttons are different on off. and def. is because most longtime Madden players are used to it being that way. However, EA did include alternate button configs that allow you to have them both on the same button if you want, so this isn't a legitimate gripe. As for the rest, you seem to be saying that EA is incapable of creating anything worth emulating. You really can't get any more close-minded than that.

06-23-2004, 10:13 AM	#24
Graphik Prsnr#70460649 OVR: 22* Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Chi-Town, Ill-State Posts: 10,580	Re: Make it a little more like madden Quote: *coogrfan said:* Quote: *TheBadazz said:* Boy one thing I love to see is when a Madden player push and hold speed burst and they start charging up. They always say he's not going faster. Then I have to tell them 2K series don't have a lazy "turbo" button, it has a "Speed burst" button there's a difference. No, in the 2k series you have the absurd spectacle of a players top speed being dependant on a gamers ability to rapidly tap buttons. Why should Michael Vick run faster for you than he can for me simply because you're better at button mashing? Imo that sort of arcade nonsense is out of place in a game as sim-oriented as this one. One thing I feel about the speed burst bottons is with ESPN, I actually feel like I'm in charge of the runners speed. Its nothing like being in a footrace to the endzone against a defensive player and your botton mashing actually feels like you're doing the running. I did'nt like the botton mashing at first until I got into that very scenario. Madden does'nt really bother me also but its not as immersive as ESPN in terms of getting a speed burst. And thats what seperates Madden from ESPN IMO, immersivness.

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