No Season Mode?

[jcas007]

Re: No Season Mode?

Solves nothing for those who like to play 29 or 58 game seasons and/or those who play 6-7 inning games. Makes 0 sense how even those 2 small options were erased from this game. Not that difficult to include that in franchise mode. It was simple and convenient.

Some of us hate simming games and having the cpu determine if we win games or not. Its enjoyable and gratifying to know that I played every game and helped my team make the playoffs and win it all.

Its a damn shame too. I was really looking forward to this game. I definitely feel like I just wasted 60 bucks.

I know I don't like to sim games that's 1 thing I don't like about NHL games by EA

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[jcas007]

Re: No Season Mode?

Stop assuming that a mode that really like ten people play should be in a game anymore.

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Have even been reading the thread there's a lot more than 10 ppl so if it doesn't pertain to you don't bother others about it who do

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[jcas007]

Re: No Season Mode?

Never played a day of season mode in my life and I normally think highly of SDS and how they do business, but this isn't good business. Either they knew that a certain amount of people wouldn't buy knowing season mode was taken out or they overlooked it.......either are unacceptable. Just disappointed in SDS here, not that the mode is removed, but just the way people found out about it after and only after buying.

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Exactly, I have it pre ordered I think I'm going to cancel it and wait and see if maybe they patch it in since so many ppl are complaining

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[jcas007]

Re: No Season Mode?

Even with season mode being removed. Can't you simulate some games and play ones that you want to play manually?

Yeah but who wants to sim games and let the computer decide the outcome

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[My993C2]

Re: No Season Mode?

In all honesty, I personally don't think the devs have actively tried to conceal the fact that they have removed the Season mode (I guess this is admittedly biased, as the claim is mostly based on the fact that talking with some of the devs, I never got that sort of impression).

It looks more like that they truly believed that the mode was nothing more than a "light" version of the Franchise mode and therefore believed we gamers do not have any issues migrating to the Franchise mode, so long as the remaining mode is improved to absorb the less flashy brother. So I think to the devs, the mode really only had that much value. Hence it did not even come to their mind that the removal would be such a big deal.

But as the outpouring of anger here shows, that assumption of course is not true and I think an incidence like this actually indicates that the ones making decisions at SDS are not properly interpreting what the raw numbers from the telemetry data indicate.

What they should have done if they really cared about their customers is wrote some code that would be able to migrate Season mode save files into Franchise saves. Yes there would be some missing components since Season does not go as deep. But you can't tell me that SDS does not use code reuse, that many aspects of this game is not derived from common code and common data. Would this have been easy? Likely not, but it is totally doable. Don't tell me it's not. I am a senior software developer myself responsible for maintaining a Commercial Auto Insurance application that generates hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue through premiums for the company and a few years back when we built our new system, one of the many tasks that landed on my plate was to convert the old policy data which was much more of a free form format into the new data models which was highly structured. Was it easy? No, it had it's challenges. But I did it and it only took me a month or so to get the conversion code working before moving on to some other task. The SDS developers are talented people. I can see this in their product. But I am a seasoned professional and don't tell me things like converting one format to another cannot be done.

Then after that the only thing left over would be to find some way for people who don't want to play 162 seasons, give them the ability to play half or quarter seasons. Once again don't tell me this can't be done. It's software, you can do almost anything with software.

PS: my comments above are directed to every one here, they are not directed at nomo when I say things like "Don't tell me this can't be done".

[jcas007]

Re: No Season Mode?

Well, I'm glad I haven't picked up my order..I'm sorry for those who already bought it and found season mode no longer there..It is the only mode I play and have played since forever..

Thanks for nothing Sony!

Me too I have it pre ordered I'm probably not going to get it now unless somehow they patch it in then I'll get it

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[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: No Season Mode?

In all honesty, I personally don't think the devs have actively tried to conceal the fact that they have removed the Season mode (I guess this is admittedly biased, as the claim is mostly based on the fact that talking with some of the devs, I never got that sort of impression).

It looks more like that they truly believed that the mode was nothing more than a "light" version of the Franchise mode and therefore believed we gamers do not have any issues migrating to the Franchise mode, so long as the remaining mode is improved to absorb the less flashy brother. So I think to the devs, the mode really only had that much value. Hence it did not even come to their mind that the removal would be such a big deal.

I'm not buying this hypothesis. Granted you may have inside info that I don't. But, they drill down to the tiniest of details with each year's new game. I still remember watching a guy on a stream talk about specularity for about an hour a few years ago. Twitch stream after Twitch stream, developer blogs, articles, mining the game for any small details to put on the features list, being asked thousands of point-blank questions by customers.

Saying that during this process they never thought it was even worthy of a mention is, frankly, quite unbelievable. Whether they thought it was a big deal or not, I can't say, but it's impossible to believe they wouldn't even mention it. If they wanted to mention it, of course.

Fans of this title will riot if you change something minuscule like placement of the score bug; on what planet would a dev think this wouldn't even be worth a mention? Are you saying they are that out of touch? Maybe their telemetry data is really struggling and/or someone is struggling profoundly in the interpretation of said data.

[nomo17k]

Re: No Season Mode?

I'm not buying this hypothesis. Granted you may have inside info that I don't. But, they drill down to the tiniest of details with each year's new game. I still remember watching a guy on a stream talk about specularity for about an hour a few years ago. Twitch stream after Twitch stream, developer blogs, articles, mining the game for any small details to put on the features list, being asked thousands of point-blank questions by customers.

Saying that during this process they never thought it was even worthy of a mention is, frankly, quite unbelievable. Whether they thought it was a big deal or not, I can't say, but it's impossible to believe they wouldn't even mention it. If they wanted to mention it, of course.

Fans of this title will riot if you change something minuscule like placement of the score bug; on what planet would a dev think this wouldn't even be worth a mention? Are you saying they are that out of touch? Maybe their telemetry data is really struggling and/or someone is struggling profoundly in the interpretation of said data.

Of course I may be wrong, and it's entirely possible they might have a reason to lay low and let it blow over this time.

But I actually do feel their mindset about leaving features in has shifted, and at once time Ramone (who does not even frequent this forum much these days) explicitly said (a few years ago) that the devs cannot satisfy everyone any more. There should still be the post of his if you search his posting history.

Also, one thing that has changed from the old days since SDS started using Twitch for announcing new game features is that they have stopped emphasizing the release of the "fact sheet" in place of some guys going gaga over new cards in DD... The release of fact sheet was often one of the most exciting days in the cycle, but that appeared to have been almost fully replaced by the casual interactions over streaming videos. And it's not hard to imagine that things slip through.

And as to "being out of touch," I think anyone who has been enthusiastically following the evolution of The Show series has quite a few things of the kind that they wonder why features/bugs X and/or Y have not been fixed in all these years... (I have quite a few of those.) Some of them the devs may share concerns (but unable to do much, due to various constraints, e.g., legacy code, developer resource, contractual situations), but others I felt that they feel are out of sync with what we gamers want. And that's natural given that we gamers all want slightly or vastly different things out of the game, you know what I mean?

But you also wrote what I think is going on... the devs may not be getting fuller pictures of what gamers want, especially the kind who hang around in OS, from the interpretation of telemetry data.

Data analysis often has a lot of subjectivity elements, and it's very easy to let numbers for speak for one's own bias than trying really hard to understand what lies below all the numbers you can easily see, and given what has been going on with The Show in recent years, I feel a smaller, yet very passionate community from OS can easily be overlooked. And I think SDS has started overlooking in recent years.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: No Season Mode?

But I actually do feel their mindset about leaving features in has shifted, and at once time Ramone (who does not even frequent this forum much these days) explicitly said (a few years ago) that the devs cannot satisfy everyone any more. There should still be the post of his if you search his posting history.

All solid points and let me just respond mostly to this one. If their mindset has indeed changed from leaving everything in to being more economical and trimming fat here and there, many will be disappointed in that. But, I think most would also understand and adapt given some sort of understanding about how to know what's been removed before they make a non-refundable purchase based on a reasonable assumption.

The main objection people have is they weren't notified and Season mode players had to find out the hard way. So, these folks (many of whom have been playing this game since its origins) either need to quickly adapt to Franchise, get lost in DD like everyone else (lol), just play some exhibition games, or be out $60+ and say "screw it."

Also, R.I.P. Fact Sheet. I agree 100%. You can take these streams for all I care. With a fact sheet, I got all of the same info in about 1/100 of the time.

[nomo17k]

Re: No Season Mode?

What they should have done if they really cared about their customers is wrote some code that would be able to migrate Season mode save files into Franchise saves. Yes there would be some missing components since Season does not go as deep. But you can't tell me that SDS does not use code reuse, that many aspects of this game is not derived from common code and common data. Would this have been easy? Likely not, but it is totally doable. Don't tell me it's not. I am a senior software developer myself responsible for maintaining a Commercial Auto Insurance application that generates hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue through premiums for the company and a few years back when we built our new system, one of the many tasks that landed on my plate was to convert the old policy data which was much more of a free form format into the new data models which was highly structured. Was it easy? No, it had it's challenges. But I did it and it only took me a month or so to get the conversion code working before moving on to some other task. The SDS developers are talented people. I can see this in their product. But I am a seasoned professional and don't tell me things like converting one format to another cannot be done.

Then after that the only thing left over would be to find some way for people who don't want to play 162 seasons, give them the ability to play half or quarter seasons. Once again don't tell me this can't be done. It's software, you can do almost anything with software.

PS: my comments above are directed to every one here, they are not directed at nomo when I say things like "Don't tell me this can't be done".

I think the issue is less technical (e.g., not the lack of ability of SDS programmers), than managerial.

The carry-over save itself was said to be "too difficult" and "technically impossible" (to which the programmer side of myself disagreed, for similar reasons you wrote) before it was actually introduced a few years ago.

I actually understand the desire to reduce the maintenance cost of having both franchise and season modes (a case of having systems quite similar, but different enough in detail that maintaining both is a chore). From what I hear/read from various sources, the legacy code appears to have been a big issue making certain things happen. But that's true of any substantial software project...

But I think the way it has been done out of blue is what people are reacting strongly, not the technical feasibility. And I share the frustration here.

[nomo17k]

Re: No Season Mode?

All solid points and let me just respond mostly to this one. If their mindset has indeed changed from leaving everything in to being more economical and trimming fat here and there, many will be disappointed in that. But, I think most would also understand and adapt given some sort of understanding about how to know what's been removed before they make a non-refundable purchase based on a reasonable assumption.

The main objection people have is they weren't notified and Season mode players had to find out the hard way. So, these folks (many of whom have been playing this game since its origins) either need to quickly adapt to Franchise, get lost in DD like everyone else (lol), just play some exhibition games, or be out $60+ and say "screw it."

Also, R.I.P. Fact Sheet. I agree 100%. You can take these streams for all I care. With a fact sheet, I got all of the same info in about 1/100 of the time.

Yeah, I do think SDS botched the situation buy not being up front... but that's different from whether they had a malicious intention... and that's my point.

(And the refund policy of games really do suck, but that I think is an industry problem not specific to the devs.)

I'm not the most seasoned veterans of The Show (like nem or Knight... where is he these days!?), but like many in the forum, The Show has had a special place in my heart. So it feels quite sad to see the long-built trust eroding among the people I've seen in this forum all these years.

[jcas007]

Re: No Season Mode?

Well, I bought the game today, digital, because I was sold on the hype. I will never do that again.

I will never buy MLB again on launch day, and I will never buy it again if season mode is not restored.

I feel ripped off, SDS. If I had known there was no season mode ahead of time, I would not have purchased the game. As it stands, you have my money for a product sold in bad faith, and I don't take that lightly. Plenty of others here obviously feel the same way.

Do the right thing and patch season mode back in.

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I have it on order and no season mode I'll probably just return it, unless I hear there gonna patch it in I'll just go back to 17

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[nemesis04]

Re: No Season Mode?

I have it on order and no season mode I'll probably just return it, unless I hear there gonna patch it in I'll just go back to 17

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Probably a less than zero chance of it being added into 18.

[whitesox2020champs]

Re: No Season Mode?

Probably a less than zero chance of it being added into 18.

I can guarantee you the chance is above zero.

[kehlis]

Re: No Season Mode?

I can guarantee you the chance is above zero.

Sadly it isn't.