Another Year of the Show Completely Wasted

[Padgoi]

Re: Another Year of the Show Completely Wasted

This! When a game starts doing something like this to me, I start trying to figure out what I should change to avoid it, to account for what I'm obviously not prepared for. Am I leaving a pitcher in too long? Am I choosing relievers poorly? Has my pitch selection gotten too conservative or predictable? Same with other games, which I where I really learned the benefits of using the strategy adjustments on the fly in NHL, at the same time other solved the "comeback code" by using the sliders to turn the CPU strategy adjustment to zero, which defeats the entire point of sim sports gaming.



I play a ton of poker online, too. You see the same crap, with losing players always claiming the decks are rigged. they aren't. But bad players, which is what you will find more of when playing free poker, stay too long with hands, which means when you have a lot of players like that, the number of suckouts increases. There are ways to play to avoid getting sucked out on.



But you will notice the same pattern, over and over, in every game. Players think the AI is cheating when they lose, but never notice an issue when they win. But they quickly look for something to explain away their losses.

Understood, but I've stated time and again that this issue is not only isolated to the user, it seems to be related to the team that is losing, user or cpu. I've had just as many absurdly unrealistic comebacks against the cpu as the cpu has had against me. Sometimes it's 4 consecutive walks. Sometimes it's a routine ground ball that conveniently takes a bad hop. Sometimes it's a comebacker off the pitcher. I've seen it countless times in countless ways to myself and to the cpu and it's simply not realistic regardless of who it happens to.

As Caulfield said earlier, it might just be the clutch attribute rearing it's ugly head, but if it is, it needs to be toned down dramatically.

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[ML]

Re: Another Year of the Show Completely Wasted

Interesting point. It's possible the clutch attribute is just more significant than it should be (in my opinion).

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"Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in..."

I wonder how much of a stat weight the clutch attribute actually holds. For example, in certain scenarios, does the "clutch" rating supersede a batter's "contact / power" ratings? Does it overrule the pitcher's clutch rating, or their H/9 rating, during the outcome "diceroll"?

The idea of the clutch rating holding a heavier stat weight than these attributes, skewing certain outcomes to help justify said clutch rating (which then holds more favorable outcomes as opposed to 65 contact vs 79 H/9 ratings) seems like a more plausible theory than the others presented.

[Padgoi]

Re: Another Year of the Show Completely Wasted

"Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in..."

I wonder how much of a stat weight the clutch attribute actually holds. For example, in certain scenarios, does the "clutch" rating supersede a batter's "contact / power" ratings? Does it overrule the pitcher's clutch rating, or their H/9 rating, during the outcome "diceroll"?

The idea of the clutch rating holding a heavier stat weight than these attributes, skewing certain outcomes to help justify said clutch rating (which then holds more favorable outcomes as opposed to 65 contact vs 79 H/9 ratings) seems like a more plausible theory than the others presented.

I honestly think we may be on to something here...

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[ML]

Re: Another Year of the Show Completely Wasted

I honestly think we may be on to something here...

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There's a ton of factors that go into the outcome of every pitch, but to EXTREMELY simplify it if you look at it this way it could look something like this;

Assuming the player swings at a pitch, there are 2 outcomes, the batter will make contact or the batter will miss.

From there, if the batter makes contact, the batter will reach base safely 1 out of every ~3.97 times. This puts the league average at right about .252, which was the case in 2019.

Now to determine if this specific at bat is the 1 time that the batter reaches base safely in the video game, there are a few ratings that will determine this. For arguments sake, let's weigh the ratings as followed;

Batter Contact: 25%
Batter Power: 10%
Batting Clutch: 25%
Pitcher H/9: 30%
Pitcher Clutch: 20%
Total: 100%

Now if the game determines that this is a "clutch situation", the weights could look like this:
Batter Contact: 20%
Batter Power: 10%
Batting Clutch: 35%
Pitcher H/9: 30%
Pitcher Clutch: 15%
Total: 100%

This would explain why you would see batters come through in situations some of the time, but not all of time, with the batter's clutch rating being the most important factor.

Now clearly this doesn't take a huge amount of factors into consideration, most obviously sliders being one of the biggest compensating factors.

I could be completely wrong on how the formula actually works, but it is fun to think about and to play devil's advocate.

[bcruise]

Re: Another Year of the Show Completely Wasted

Seeing as this is starting to somewhat turn into a rational discussion, let me add that the game defines a "clutch" situation as runners on base. This has been dev confiirmed in the past (as well as explicitly mentioned in past games), and is still evident in '19 - I can't link it now from work, but do a search on my username in this forum for "quirks" and you'll find an explanation soon enough.

The problem, as NolanRyansSnowMonkey pointed out in that thread, is that we don't have an ingame indicator of the strength of those two ratings. So, the "snowball effect" that tends to roll over people who allow that first runner to reach may be very real.

That said, it's still two ratings, and it's difficult to pin every comeback on their existence (especially if the pitcher has a large advantage over the batter in that rating). User accountability is always going to be a factor to some extent.

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[Caulfield]

Re: Another Year of the Show Completely Wasted

and if you get a clutch moment, if you have rumble ON for your controller, you'll know its clutch too. I think. I dont want my controller giving me hints so I turn the rumble off. I wish the controller would give you ''false'' rumbles when clutch moment isnt really kicking in, I'd cut it back on because I do like the idea of the sense of urgency rumbling controller creates. I just dont want to be told ''this is definitely'' a key pitch. I feel like after almost 40 years enjoying baseball, its something I should (& do) know.

[Padgoi]

Re: Another Year of the Show Completely Wasted

I think herein lies my issue with the game and how it generates "comebacks" in clutch situations. I mean, yes, certain players are more clutch than others no doubt, but I just don't think there should be a clutch factor at all. It skews the results of too many games. I'd either tone it down considerably or remove it altogether. That way you don't have the absurd comebacks that tend to happen in this game.

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[No.27]

Re: Another Year of the Show Completely Wasted

Just a casual observation here. Could this problem be a Roster rating issue and not necessarily a Gameplay issue. I’ve been playing with Bacon’s meticulously rated Fictional Roster all year and couldn’t for the life of me work out why hitting was more difficult (other than extreme lefty/righty splits!) in a good way. I started comparing ratings when looking at his Fictional/real life 2018 All Stars Roster and noticed the real life Red Sox clutch ratings are off the charts.

I delved deeper into the Full Minors and found Mookie + JD @99 clutch, Benni @98 clutch, Xander @90 and for heavens sake a 36 year old Pearce @94! Bacon has used the clutch rating far more judiciously with only 2 players @ 90+91 in the Top 5 teams! I don’t want to delve too much deeper but at a quick glance the Pitching clutch ratings showed the 2 rosters seem to be similar in how they handle Pitching clutch.

For what it’s worth I like the extra layer of complexity the clutch rating brings especially when it is used in the way Bacon has. It’s one of the first things I look at in a potential trade. When playing games I scout upcoming teams and if it is only one very high clutch player in a lineup I can often afford to pitch around them with men on bases. Forcing me to add extra strategy to my often lacklustre pitching is always a good thing.

[kehlis]

Re: Another Year of the Show Completely Wasted

I think herein lies my issue with the game and how it generates "comebacks" in clutch situations. I mean, yes, certain players are more clutch than others no doubt, but I just don't think there should be a clutch factor at all. It skews the results of too many games. I'd either tone it down considerably or remove it altogether. That way you don't have the absurd comebacks that tend to happen in this game.

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I would absolutely love it if clutch was removed.

I'm getting into Bill James territory here but I don't believe clutch is an actual thing in baseball to begin with so having it out of the game would be great (to me).

[Padgoi]

Re: Another Year of the Show Completely Wasted

I would absolutely love it if clutch was removed.



I'm getting into Bill James territory here but I don't believe clutch is an actual thing in baseball to begin with so having it out of the game would be great (to me).

Agree 100%. Baseball is about making contact with a ball moving 100 mph towards you. It's almost impossible to control where the ball goes when you hit it coming that fast. Clutch isn't really a thing in baseball. It's just an unnecessary rating added to make the game harder and, in my opinion, a lot more unrealistic.

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[Gagnon39]

Re: Another Year of the Show Completely Wasted

Hopefully not.

Did this win post of 2019? It sure should have.

And man, I'm hard on games sometimes but this guy seems to take the cake. I was disappointed in NHL after NHL 15. NHL 16 was worse and I just stopped playing, haven't played it since. If the game gives you this much grief and anxiety, I'd suggest not playing it.

I've even stopped playing The Show from time to time because I was becoming angry. When I get to the point that a game makes me angry as opposed to being a stress relief, I'm done.

[BlackBetty15]

Re: Another Year of the Show Completely Wasted

No disrespect (which of course means copious amounts of disrespect)but you do complain a lot about the game year in and year out. It may be time to find something else to play as it doesn't seem like you will ever be satisfied with whatever SDS does with the game.

No disrespect to you my man, but where exactly does a fan and consumer supposed to release some frustrations about a product he buys. You don’t have to read and respond to it.

forum/ (ˈfɔːrəm) /
noun plural -rums or -ra (-rə)
a meeting or assembly for the open discussion of subjects of public interest
a medium for open discussion, such as a magazine
a public meeting place for open discussion
a court; tribunal
(in South Africa) a pressure group of leaders or representatives, esp Black leaders or representatives
(in ancient Italy) an open space, usually rectangular in shape, serving as a city's marketplace and centre of public business

All that to say, a guy has to have a place to chat with people about his grievance. Let’s be real, if any of us had a surrounding community that gave a crap about any of our video game interest OS would be out of business years ago, but here we are, alone in the physical world yet connected in the digital through OS as if we were neighbors. How about instead of bashing one dude over his grievance about a no doubt flawed product, you read and move out to another thread like a professional? The Show has had some issues for a while...it stopped selling consoles a while back due to, IMO, it got to big for its own head. But hey that’s my own opinion, which last I checked...all a forum was...a collection of opinions by people who SWEAR their statements mean more than anyone else’s.

[Lisac]

Re: Another Year of the Show Completely Wasted

Padgoi I agree with you 110% in regards to game being scripted
Just had a game (one of many) that i was ahead 5-2 top of 8th easy DP grounder to get out of inning, booted. CPU puts up 5 after that and i end up losing 7-5
Frustrating as hell

[Caulfield]

Re: Another Year of the Show Completely Wasted

Did this win post of 2019? It sure should have.

hopefully not.

Spoiler

not a knock on the posts message in and of itself, but there were some really great, thoughtful, sometimes hilarious, sometimes ridiculous and sometimes poignantly sad posts across the board on OS from January to December 2019.

[Armor and Sword]

Another Year of the Show Completely Wasted

I would absolutely love it if clutch was removed.



I'm getting into Bill James territory here but I don't believe clutch is an actual thing in baseball to begin with so having it out of the game would be great (to me).

Derek Jeter would like to have a word with you.


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