Another Year of the Show Completely Wasted

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  • JayhawkerStL
    Banned
    • Apr 2004
    • 3644

    #166
    Re: Another Year of the Show Completely Wasted

    Originally posted by coach422001
    a few pages back from here Caulfield indicated he posted two rosters with clutch ratings all zeroed for people to test with.
    Even this demonstrates a lack of understanding of what clutch does. I would think that sub 50, at least, would have a negative effect on clutch, making someone worse in clutch situations. Would a 20 clutch rating still mean somewhat better?

    One issue with clutch is that the real clutch effect are guys that can’t make plays under pressure. But that is who high school, college, and the minors weed out. The guys that get to the pros are the ones that don’t crater when it gets tense.

    Most everyone in the majors are clutch. That how they got there, performing well when their entire career was on the line. Calling a guy that hits well clutch because he hits well under pressure is dumb because sample size can make the difference seem larger than it is.

    If you’ve spent any time with text-based sims, you learn that the normal distribution of hits and strikeouts create realistic streaks and slumps. And you will find the same dead-on distribution of clutch hitters from season to season that we see in reality.

    Adding slump, hot streaks, and clutch screw up what would be accurate statistical distribution. I have no idea how much effect these attributes and such have in The Show, but they aren’t helping.

    But, if we step back and realize that The Show is not a sim, but a fun arcade sports game that uses a lot of tricks to evoke realism. And if you can accept that, you can really enjoy the game. But, if you treat the game like a several hundred dollar simulation engine that professionals use to research possible roster move and strategies, you will come off as entitled gamer that thinks their greatest power is to put social media pressure on developers to make a game that most gamers don’t want, and which the game producers don’t think will sell well.
    Last edited by JayhawkerStL; 01-05-2020, 02:25 AM.

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    • speels
      Pro
      • Feb 2004
      • 780

      #167
      Re: Another Year of the Show Completely Wasted

      Originally posted by JayhawkerStL
      Even this demonstrates a lack of understanding of what clutch does. I would think that sub 50, at least, would have a negative effect on clutch, making someone worse in clutch situations. Would a 20 clutch rating still mean somewhat better?

      One issue with clutch is that the real clutch effect are guys that can’t make plays under pressure. But that is what high school, college, and the minors weed out. The guys that get to the pros are the ones that don’t crater when it gets tense.

      Most everyone in the majors are clutch. That how they got there, performing well when their entire career was in the line. Calling a guy that hits well clutch because he hits well under pressure is dumb, because sample size can make the difference seem larger than it is.

      If you’ve spent any time with text based sims, you learn that the normal distribution of hits and strikeouts create realistic streaks and slumps. And you will find the same dead on distribution of clutch hitters from season to season that we see in reality.

      Adding slump, hot streaks, and clutch screw up what would be accurate statistical distribution. I have no idea how much effect these attributes and such have in The Show, but they aren’t helping.

      But, if we step back and realize that The Show is not a sim, but a fun arcade sports game that ises a lot of tricks to evoke realism. And if you do can accept that, you can really enjoy the game. But, if you treat the game like a several hundred dollar simulation engine that professionals use to research possible roster move and strategies, you will come off as entitled gamer that thinks their greatest power is to put social media pressure on developers to make a game that most gamers don’t want, and which the game producers don’t think will sell well.
      I love this post. I agree clutch and Hot/Cold streaks are just a lazy way of doing things to make a game simulate real life. When I look at athletes I don't see a clutch factor, what I see is a focus factor. Think about in baseball, there are guys that are great 0-2 hitters or great with RISP, but I don't think clutch or being on a hot streak make them that, but what does is their focus. That is the difference between and elite athlete and a great athlete. The elite athlete can "slow things down" and make better adjustments because their focus is stronger. Connor McDavid is arguably the fastest hockey player around, but for him everything plays out at our regular speed. When I watch him I'm like "How does he control himself playing so fast?" Again , it's relative to the person.

      I don't know how many play sports, but have you ever been in that "zone" where things just seem to slow down and you feel like you are in complete control? That is your focus. That is what needs to be in sports games to make them more realistic. I am a Jays fan so I will just use them in this example. If I am batting with say Luke Maile, a 95mph fastball should feel like a 99mph fastball. However if I am using say Bo Bichette maybe that exact same pitch fells like a 93mph fastball. I have more time to react and square up the bat.

      Now unfortunately this is nearly impossible for a sports game because of all the moving parts in each aspect of the game. I don't know how a game could determine when and how much focus a player has, but once they can it will change sports gaming forever. IMHO

      Comment

      • JayhawkerStL
        Banned
        • Apr 2004
        • 3644

        #168
        Re: Another Year of the Show Completely Wasted

        A great feature MLB2K had was batter’s and hitter’s eye. Can’t remember which was which, but one provided a smaller or larger that the hitter could use to predict location. So it was easier to get the guess location right with Pujols over anyone else. Also, the count affected the guess zone.

        The other provided the hitter a hint, which was the type of pitch and the general location. Just as the pitcher released the pitch, you would see the top, bottom, inside, or outside border of the strike zone flash. The pitch may or may not be a strike, but it helped you focus on location. It would also occasionally flash the entire border of the zone, which meant that I was going to be a strike, regardless. But this happened randomly. It was half to 3/4 of the pitches Pujols saw, but a lesser hitter might be lucky to get the warning once in an at-bat.

        It really worked to give you the feeling of confidence when using a great hitter, and the struggle of having to work harder if you were an average to below average hitter.

        The lack of this is one of the reasons I tend to just not enjoy hitting in The Show as much.

        Comment

        • bravesfan1984
          MVP
          • Mar 2008
          • 2808

          #169
          Re: Another Year of the Show Completely Wasted

          Originally posted by JayhawkerStL
          A great feature MLB2K had was batter’s and hitter’s eye. Can’t remember which was which, but one provided a smaller or larger that the hitter could use to predict location. So it was easier to get the guess location right with Pujols over anyone else. Also, the count affected the guess zone.

          The other provided the hitter a hint, which was the type of pitch and the general location. Just as the pitcher released the pitch, you would see the top, bottom, inside, or outside border of the strike zone flash. The pitch may or may not be a strike, but it helped you focus on location. It would also occasionally flash the entire border of the zone, which meant that I was going to be a strike, regardless. But this happened randomly. It was half to 3/4 of the pitches Pujols saw, but a lesser hitter might be lucky to get the warning once in an at-bat.

          It really worked to give you the feeling of confidence when using a great hitter, and the struggle of having to work harder if you were an average to below average hitter.

          The lack of this is one of the reasons I tend to just not enjoy hitting in The Show as much.

          It's been so long since I have played MVP05, but how did they structure their clutch system? Do you know?
          Braves | Cowboys | ND Football | UNC Basketball | 4-Kevin Harvick


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          • Caulfield
            Hall Of Fame
            • Apr 2011
            • 10986

            #170
            Re: Another Year of the Show Completely Wasted

            Originally posted by bravesfan1984
            It's been so long since I have played MVP05, but how did they structure their clutch system? Do you know?
            I may be wrong but I think mvp had an extremely similar attribute setup to the Show, but no clutch, or vision (they did have discipline) and no catcher block IIRC
            OSFM23 - Building Better Baseball - OSFM23

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