Re: CPU Bullpen Management

[ktd1976]

Re: CPU Bullpen Management

How has that impacted the rest of the league? Do the other 28 teams seem to apply these rules while simulating?

Honestly, I haven't checked. I wasn't too concerned with what the other teams were doing in simmed games....just the games I play, I was sick of the LRPs being put in spots where the MRP and SU guys should be used.

I will have to go back and check the box scores and see how the usage is....

[ktd1976]

Re: CPU Bullpen Management

Exactly. it's all about getting past that 5th innings. and that means its to do with the score of the game. if the score is 5-5 the CPU will let the starter go past 5 innings. if they are down 5-0 they will hook them though. and in comes the LR even if he just pitched 5 innings the day before. now with the 3 batter min rule. now I can't just change the dumb play the CPU makes doing this. so I know I will blast the hell out of the LR running on empty. so I have to keep moving the controller over after every out if I think the CPU is about to hook a starter when they shouldn't be and that stops them from making the change... once it gets past the 5th I don't worry about it. the issue is they then use middle R guys unless they have a 1 run lead into the 8th.

the CPU has no idea how to manage the BP. and the closer will always comes into the game in the 9th in a save situation. I have made the movie to have a setup guy start the 9th innings because the CPU closer is gassed.... so what happens???? even if that setup guy gets 2 outs once the closer is warmed up the CPU then BRINGS in the damm closer just to get the save stat and that 1 out.

I keep saying it there is no come back code it's about the dumb CPU BP management. they have no idea..

It's time they try and get the Joe Girardi A1 rule in the game. where the CPU won't use a player if they pitched 2 days in a row. and prioritize otter players to pitch first It can't be that hard.

Here is the thing, though......If the CPU team only has 1 LRP, yes, they will bring in the guy who just pitched 5 innings the day before.....because that is a situation where a LRP would normally pitch.

If they have TWO guys in the LRP spots (both with high stamina ratings) then they will put the lower rated guy in if the top rated guy's stamina is depleted.

It seems that it actually matters WHERE guys are slotted in the bullpen this year.

This is why I like 30 man control. If the CPU uses a long reliever for 3 innings against me, then I can make sure they have a second reliever slotted in the LRP spot for the next game, just in case one is needed again....

My slider set seems to work pretty well, but it can be further manipulated by slotting guys in different spots in the CPU's bullpen.

[Goose26]

Re: CPU Bullpen Management

In regard to the RP innings, I simmed 5 seasons with SP stamina at 7, and manager hook and RP stamina both at zero...



The highest inning usage out of the bullpen with those sliders in each simmed season was around 87. WAAAYYYY better than the many guys I had seen previously in the 100+ inning territory.



The only drawback to these new slider tweaks was I had a whole ton of starters that pitched over 220 innings. But to me, that's far more acceptable than bullpen guys being used 75% of games.

[ninertravel]

Re: CPU Bullpen Management

Here is the thing, though......If the CPU team only has 1 LRP, yes, they will bring in the guy who just pitched 5 innings the day before.....because that is a situation where a LRP would normally pitch.

If they have TWO guys in the LRP spots (both with high stamina ratings) then they will put the lower rated guy in if the top rated guy's stamina is depleted.

It seems that it actually matters WHERE guys are slotted in the bullpen this year.

This is why I like 30 man control. If the CPU uses a long reliever for 3 innings against me, then I can make sure they have a second reliever slotted in the LRP spot for the next game, just in case one is needed again....

My slider set seems to work pretty well, but it can be further manipulated by slotting guys in different spots in the CPU's bullpen.

Ok that is actually good to know. it's just remembering to change that each time it happens though.

This is also a MASSIVE issue in trying to do 6 man rotations. I have tried to babysit the angels with this with Ohtani there is to much playing around. firstly he counts as a pitcher when he shouldn't so you can't have 14 pitchers on the angels team. now if he was to pitch for the Angels he would be in a 6 man rotation. the which means that 6 man has to sit in the LR spot. so the CPU could use that 6th starter anytime.

so the way to do it is essentially have the angels only use a 24 man roster. and have players sent down and set up every day to move Ohtani around in the rotation and so that no Spot starter gets used in the LR spot. it's the only way to get a 6 man rotation going

[ktd1976]

Re: CPU Bullpen Management

How has that impacted the rest of the league? Do the other 28 teams seem to apply these rules while simulating?

Checked a couple box scores from the previous day's games. Seems kinda promising.

Oakland 6 Seattle 4

OAKLAND
Bassit (W, 4-1) 5.0 IP 8H 3R 3ER 2BB 5K
Petit (H, 5) 1.0 IP 0H 0R 0ER 0BB 0K
Wendelken (H, 3) 1.0 IP 0H oR 0ER 0BB 1K
Soria (H, 6) 0.2IP 3H 1R 1ER 0BB 1K
McFarland (H, 6) 0.1IP 0H 0R 0ER 0BB 1K
Hendriks (S, 15) 1.0 IP 0H 0R 0ER 0BB 2K

SEATTLE
Gonzalez (L, 3-3) 6.0 IP 8H 4R 4ER 2BB 4K
Magill 1.0 IP 0H 0R 0ER 2BB 0K
Williams 1.1 IP 4H 2R 2ER 0BB 0K
Tuivailala 0.2 IP 1H 0R 0ER 1BB 1K

Soria and MC Farland are both in the SU slots for the A's. Soria was getting hit hard, so it made sense to bring in McFarland to get that last out in the 8th. Hendriks is the closer

For Seattle, Magill and Williams are the 3rd and 2nd highest rated MRP in their bullpen. Dan Altavilla is the highest rated, but his stamina was depleted, where Magill and Williams were rested
Tuivaila is the 4th highest MRP in Seattle's bulpen.

Looking through other games, it seems that MRPs are being used for an inning at a time.....Set up guys are being used during the proper times as well.....and LRP guys only when the starter goes less than 5 innings

[knich]

Re: CPU Bullpen Management

Ok that is actually good to know. it's just remembering to change that each time it happens though.

This is also a MASSIVE issue in trying to do 6 man rotations. I have tried to babysit the angels with this with Ohtani there is to much playing around. firstly he counts as a pitcher when he shouldn't so you can't have 14 pitchers on the angels team. now if he was to pitch for the Angels he would be in a 6 man rotation. the which means that 6 man has to sit in the LR spot. so the CPU could use that 6th starter anytime.

so the way to do it is essentially have the angels only use a 24 man roster. and have players sent down and set up every day to move Ohtani around in the rotation and so that no Spot starter gets used in the LR spot. it's the only way to get a 6 man rotation going

You might want to look at Cy (Truesim) ratings spreadsheet for Ohtani. I have him as 5th slot in rotation. I don't play with the Angels.

CPU starts him every 5th day and plays him DH most games in between. But you need to really bump his stamina and have him as a SP for this to work.

[knich]

Re: CPU Bullpen Management

The old system is not working this year. I am interested in both of these approaches.

As of July 31st, 2022 and ~113 games into the season:

10 starters have over 40 relief appearances(so most long relievers are only pitching about/less than every 3 games or so)

The SP leader in bullpen innings averages about 2.5 innings every 2.5 games but has a solid 3.44 ERA

Only two SP relievers with over 30 appearances(out of 20+) have an ERA over 6(CPU not leaving long guys out there all the time to get completely blasted)

18 RP/CPs with 60+ appearances(so a little over half the teams have a guy they throw out there every other day)

Only maybe 3 relievers averaging 2+ innings/appearance

Out of 51 relievers with more than 50 appearances, only 7 have an ERA over 5.5(most teams aren't using their worst statistical pitchers every day)

31 relievers have pitched at least 30+ innings with a sub 3 ERA(basically each team has one statistically great reliever)

These numbers are inherently distorted being 3 years deep into an intentionally OP custom Bacon franchise with a heavy run environment, but they look great to me in context.

I am using TrueSim too. Curious are you using these ratings for both played and sim games?

Also, with the low SP stamina how many innings are your SPs averaging in played and sim?

I play every game of my franchise, every single pitch.

After a couple tweaks, I have been getting pretty good results with my own set of sliders.

CPU Starter Stamina= MAXED
CPU Reliever Stamina= 8
CPU Manager Hook= 2

For whatever reason, after the 5th inning, the CPU doesn't bring in the Long Releiver (which is good)

5th-7th inning, they use the highest rated MRP and then the second highest, and so on, UNLESS the highest rated one has depleted stamina, then it moves down the list.

in the 8th inning, it uses the Highest rated SU pitcher...unless his stamina is depleted, then it uses the other SU pitcher.

Also, keep in mind, that I work the count a lot, and I draw a lot of walks, so even with the CPU stamina sliders that high, starters and relievers get gassed....But, keeping CPU starters in games past the 5th inning is key to not seeing them bring in the LRP too much.

I like this approach too. Are the results impacted if you have 2 LRs with 1 LR being your 2nd best MR?

This year I can't get the CPU to use that 2nd best MR in the LR slot.

[JoseJoseph9119]

Re: CPU Bullpen Management

I am using TrueSim too. Curious are you using these ratings for both played and sim games?

Also, with the low SP stamina how many innings are your SPs averaging in played and sim?

I use the TrueSim play sliders when I play but I'm mostly a simmer/team builder. There were 20+ starters with 200 innings, which is a lot, but a byproduct of the CPU not resting starters or actively demoting them for poor performance. The math really just equates to ~2/3rds of squads having one guy who averages 6.1 IP/start.

I think the sliders can work well either way if you raise or lower them, just don't leave them on default

[dalger21]

Re: CPU Bullpen Management

I've done a lot of testing on this issue in the past via sliders, and I've managed to find a solution that works... mostly. There was no combination of sliders that completely solved CPU bullpen management to my satisfaction, but I was able to close the gap significantly.

My testing showed that the CPU cared way too much about maintaining the effectiveness of their bullpen, so much so that they would rather trot out someone who is tired already and protect the rest of their bullpen then try and go for the win in a close game. By raising reliever stamina, I also raised the total effective pitches in the CPU bullpen, making the CPU manager less concerned about that factor and more concerned about the situation.

I combined that change with raising the CPU manager hook, which again made the situation a larger factor. I currently play with all pitcher staminas at 7 and CPU manager hook at 6. The goal is for pitchers to start loosing effectiveness when their pitch count hits the same number as their stamina attribute, and for the most part that holds true at these settings.

It's not perfect for every game, but most games the CPU mirrors what I would do in those situations.

Do you think this will work in RttS? Bullpen management is pretty brutal there.

[The Kid 24]

Re: CPU Bullpen Management

As of July 31st, 2022 and ~113 games into the season:

10 starters have over 40 relief appearances(so most long relievers are only pitching about/less than every 3 games or so)

The SP leader in bullpen innings averages about 2.5 innings every 2.5 games but has a solid 3.44 ERA

Only two SP relievers with over 30 appearances(out of 20+) have an ERA over 6(CPU not leaving long guys out there all the time to get completely blasted)

18 RP/CPs with 60+ appearances(so a little over half the teams have a guy they throw out there every other day)

Only maybe 3 relievers averaging 2+ innings/appearance

Out of 51 relievers with more than 50 appearances, only 7 have an ERA over 5.5(most teams aren't using their worst statistical pitchers every day)

31 relievers have pitched at least 30+ innings with a sub 3 ERA(basically each team has one statistically great reliever)

These numbers are inherently distorted being 3 years deep into an intentionally OP custom Bacon franchise with a heavy run environment, but they look great to me in context.

I don't understand the bold... CPU teams have starting pitchers in their bullpens?

[JoseJoseph9119]

Re: CPU Bullpen Management

I don't understand the bold... CPU teams have starting pitchers in their bullpens?

Yeah, every franchise I've ever played ends up with SPs as LRs on at least 75% of teams, at least by the second season. Never seen it not happen, but if you know a way to generally curtail it please let me know

[The Kid 24]

Re: CPU Bullpen Management

Yeah, every franchise I've ever played ends up with SPs as LRs on at least 75% of teams, at least by the second season. Never seen it not happen, but if you know a way to generally curtail it please let me know

Hmmm interesting.

Think I'm gonna have to give your sliders for those three a shot.

[knich]

Re: CPU Bullpen Management

I play every game of my franchise, every single pitch.

After a couple tweaks, I have been getting pretty good results with my own set of sliders.

CPU Starter Stamina= MAXED
CPU Reliever Stamina= 8
CPU Manager Hook= 2

For whatever reason, after the 5th inning, the CPU doesn't bring in the Long Releiver (which is good)

5th-7th inning, they use the highest rated MRP and then the second highest, and so on, UNLESS the highest rated one has depleted stamina, then it moves down the list.

in the 8th inning, it uses the Highest rated SU pitcher...unless his stamina is depleted, then it uses the other SU pitcher.

Also, keep in mind, that I work the count a lot, and I draw a lot of walks, so even with the CPU stamina sliders that high, starters and relievers get gassed....But, keeping CPU starters in games past the 5th inning is key to not seeing them bring in the LRP too much.

one other question: when you say highest rated..do you mean overall or based on clutch rating?

[Unlucky 13]

Re: CPU Bullpen Management

I don't understand the bold... CPU teams have starting pitchers in their bullpens?

Its pretty common. They make good long relievers. And if a guy is on the 40 man roster and is a better pitcher than guys who are in the bigs, its totally logical for the CPU to bring him up and put him in the MLB pen then to keep him at AAA, unless he's a top prospect who needs to develop.

[MightyMaxxx13]

Re: CPU Bullpen Management

I am about to transition from spring training to regular season in my 30-team control franchise. I was thinking it would be useful to run a few full-season test sims ahead of the season start to see which configuration produces the most realistic results. So far I have

1 - Generic CPU bullpen setup
2 - Manual override of CPU bullpen based on the post on page 1 of this thread
3 - Sliders adjusted for reliever stamina and manager hook

Any other suggestions? Figured I could post the results if this would be helpful for others.