This game has Comeback Code written all over it!!!

[PsychoBulk]

Re: This game has Comeback Code written all over it!!!

Unless Russell explains how he knows there is no comeback ai in the game. I would like to know how you can come to a conclusion about it. How can you 100% positively say that it's not in the game.

Because hes good friends with the lead programmers and designers and they tell him its not in the game perhaps?

Ive just won a game 10-2. Why wasnt it closer then? Is it because the "comeback code" didnt work (or more likely doesnt exist) or because i actually kept my level of performance up right to the end of the game to shut the AI out?

Honestly, i despair sometimes (and not at you Dave, i know you are only trying to be objective :wink.

[brunnoce]

Re: This game has Comeback Code written all over it!!!

Because hes good friends with the lead programmers and designers and they tell him its not in the game perhaps?

Ive just won a game 10-2. Why wasnt it closer then? Is it because the "comeback code" didnt work (or more likely doesnt exist) or because i actually kept my level of performance up right to the end of the game to shut the AI out?

Honestly, i despair sometimes (and not at you Dave, i know you are only trying to be objective :wink.

ditto m8
same here.

[gallandro]

Re: This game has Comeback Code written all over it!!!

The game adjusts to the way you pitch so the 3rd - 4th time through the line up they look for specific pitches more and maybe it is that your pitcher energy is affecting his pitch quality and location, making it easier for batters to get big hits.
This could be leading to the CPU getting more hits in the late innings.

Ding! We have a winner! You have to mix up your pitches, vary your pitch locations and your speed. I think too many people get stuck on "money" pitches that work the first time or two through a lineup, but then get pelted in the later innings. Or get caught in a pitch location rhythm that can sneak up on them.

Using Brandon Webb I had sliced and diced the Minnesota Twins the first time through their lineup. Suddenly out of the blue, while I'm pitching Dave Campbell says, "High, low, high, low. I'm starting to see a pattern here. He better start mixing up locations or batters will start picking up on his pitches."

Sure enough, I had subconsciously gotten myself stuck in an endless loop of pitching guys high, then low, then high, and finally low for the strikeout, and this goes for pitch types as well. If you always go for the cut fastball the get the strikeout batters will pick up on this and either wont offer at it (if it's outside the zone) or will smack it for a hit.


Yancy

[davewins]

Re: This game has Comeback Code written all over it!!!

Ding! We have a winner! You have to mix up your pitches, vary your pitch locations and your speed. I think too many people get stuck on "money" pitches that work the first time or two through a lineup, but then get pelted in the later innings. Or get caught in a pitch location rhythm that can sneak up on them.



Using Brandon Webb I had sliced and diced the Minnesota Twins the first time through their lineup. Suddenly out of the blue, while I'm pitching Dave Campbell says, "High, low, high, low. I'm starting to see a pattern here. He better start mixing up locations or batters will start picking up on his pitches."

Sure enough, I had subconsciously gotten myself stuck in an endless loop of pitching guys high, then low, then high, and finally low for the strikeout, and this goes for pitch types as well. If you always go for the cut fastball the get the strikeout batters will pick up on this and either wont offer at it (if it's outside the zone) or will smack it for a hit.


Yancy

Yeah I think that's a lot of it too. I think there needs to be a guide on pitching for this game on HOW to mix up locations or something so people can play better THROUGHOUT the game.

I am one of those people that need it!!! I develop patterns and I stick with them. I am afraid to throw fastballs in players hot zones. It's tough because if you hang a curveball you know it's going to be hit a long way but if they aren't expecting it they will just watch it right down the middle.

I think you really have to pitch to all areas of the zone and not just the corners. This is what I mean. Pitch to the O's and not the X's.

OOO
OXO
OOO

Pitching to the middle O's are important too and probably something I don't do enough of. I pitch to all 4 corner O's when there are 8 O's I could be pitching to. Ok I"m sick of saying O now so I guess you guys get the picture.

[Skyboxer]

Re: This game has Comeback Code written all over it!!!

Please show me exactly where it (Comeback code) kicked in this latest game of my dynasty? Excuse the quality as my PC died and I'm a step back in technology..

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_b0rcwGqya4&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_b0rcwGqya4&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


Full game (Sort of a stress releiver for me when I do this even thought wife thinks I'm nuts) HERE

[EnigmaNemesis]

Re: This game has Comeback Code written all over it!!!

Ding! We have a winner! You have to mix up your pitches, vary your pitch locations and your speed. I think too many people get stuck on "money" pitches that work the first time or two through a lineup, but then get pelted in the later innings. Or get caught in a pitch location rhythm that can sneak up on them.

Using Brandon Webb I had sliced and diced the Minnesota Twins the first time through their lineup. Suddenly out of the blue, while I'm pitching Dave Campbell says, "High, low, high, low. I'm starting to see a pattern here. He better start mixing up locations or batters will start picking up on his pitches."

Sure enough, I had subconsciously gotten myself stuck in an endless loop of pitching guys high, then low, then high, and finally low for the strikeout, and this goes for pitch types as well. If you always go for the cut fastball the get the strikeout batters will pick up on this and either wont offer at it (if it's outside the zone) or will smack it for a hit.


Yancy

Right on.

This is the stuff we have been saying on the "other" thread as well.

[pberardi]

Code

Guys, I think there is something there this year and I wouldn't be surprised if we get a patch to tone it down.

That said, Art1bk, don't give up on the game. It's incredibly challenging and pitching cannot be taken for granted like past games. I too experience what you're experiencing, late inning barrages from the cpu, bad calls from the umps, cpu hitting balls off the plate for hits, 3 HR innings.

1st off, I'll lose interest in the game if I go 120-42 again and win the World Series with the Marlins or Pirates! This ensures that I have to earn every victory.

Also, I noticed my fastball confidence on many of my relief pitchers is low. Yet I continuosly rely on it and get hammered.

Last night I preserved a 2 run lead by pitching around the corners. I used my weak fastball to setup my offspeed and breaking stuff rather than using my offspeed stuff to setup my fastball.

I had a 1,2,3 9th inning. I purposely threw outside the strikezone with my fastball. The CPU even chased a couple.

Try going with your pitcher's best confidence pitches and avoid the weaker ones. If your fastball confidence is not high, the CPU will start to tee off, I think. Work the corners, use the whole zone, throw some balls.

The game is a work of art this year and I'm like a little kid who can't wait to get home from work to play!

[PsychoBulk]

Re: Code

Guys, I think there is something there this year and I wouldn't be surprised if we get a patch to tone it down.

That said, Art1bk, don't give up on the game. It's incredibly challenging and pitching cannot be taken for granted like past games. I too experience what you're experiencing, late inning barrages from the cpu, bad calls from the umps, cpu hitting balls off the plate for hits, 3 HR innings.

1st off, I'll lose interest in the game if I go 120-42 again and win the World Series with the Marlins or Pirates! This ensures that I have to earn every victory.

Also, I noticed my fastball confidence on many of my relief pitchers is low. Yet I continuosly rely on it and get hammered.

Last night I preserved a 2 run lead by pitching around the corners. I used my weak fastball to setup my offspeed and breaking stuff rather than using my offspeed stuff to setup my fastball.

I had a 1,2,3 9th inning. I purposely threw outside the strikezone with my fastball. The CPU even chased a couple.

Try going with your pitcher's best confidence pitches and avoid the weaker ones. If your fastball confidence is not high, the CPU will start to tee off, I think. Work the corners, use the whole zone, throw some balls.

The game is a work of art this year and I'm like a little kid who can't wait to get home from work to play!

Spot on, you have to be so much more focused this year, i agree with everything you have said apart from the bit where you think theres "something this year", i dont :wink:

Good post though.

[gallandro]

Re: This game has Comeback Code written all over it!!!

Right on.

This is the stuff we have been saying on the "other" thread as well.

Yeah, I've only lost two games by way of big comebacks, usually if I'm ahead in the 6th or 7th I can hang on for the win. But I can say with complete certainty that both comeback losses I suffered were my fault.

First game I was ahead 7-1 in the top of the 5th. Walk the first batter... no problem. Next batter gets a bloop single when I tried to jam him... actually shattered his bat, but my 2nd baseman couldn't get to it on time. Okay... no problem. Strike out the next batter (pitcher). Next batter sacrifices and moves the runners to 2nd and 3rd. Next batter on a 2-2 count I try to strike out with the high heat... unfortunately I leave it right over the middle of the plate... two out double... 7-3. Okay mound visit time and I start to warm up my next pitcher.

Now my instinct was to leave Haren in... I only needed one out to get out of the inning, and he was the 1st batter up during my at bat, so I could have him finish out the inning and pinch hit for him in the bottom of the 5th... no biggie... no... big mistake. Haren was clearly still rattled and gives up a two-run homer on a big ol' fat pitch down the middle of the plate... again a pitching location error BY ME... 7-5. Eventually the reliever comes in and stops the bleeding and I actually hang on through the 8th with a 7-5 lead when Jon Rauch gives up a 2 run homer to Justin Morneau in the top of the 8th.

I eventually lost in the 11th inning.

My second "comeback loss" was because of bad throw in the top of the 8th from 3rd to 1st by Mark Reynolds. I was trying to get a speedy batter who hit a slow roller down the 3rd base line. Reynolds picks up the ball off balance and I know it's going to be close so I hold down the throw button and completely fill the circles (which I consciously know may result in an error, but I want this out)... ball sails over Tracy's head into right field brining in two runners. The batter advances to 3rd. Next batter sacrifices the runner in... game tied. I lose in the 9th after my reliever walks the 1st batter who's moved over on the sacrifice bunt and driven in by a double to the right field gap.

Yancy

[Speedy]

Re: This game has Comeback Code written all over it!!!

Am I only the only one seeing another thread that started before this one that is about the exact same thing?

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...allies-ai.html

[countryboy]

Re: This game has Comeback Code written all over it!!!

You know, I was thinking about it, and I believe there may be some truth to this comeback ai talk. Check this out. I posted it in the impressions thread, but thought I would share here as well...

I was playing the Mets in Spring Training and they jumped out 6-0 after the first two innings due to Kyle Lohse's inability to hit his spots. I got back into the game 6-3 after 5 thanks to homers by Greene and Joe Mather. In the 7th, the Mets go up 12-6 after Angel Pagan of all people jacks a grand salami off of Royce Ring. In the 9th, I scored 4 runs before getting my first out to make it 12-10, and then had men on first and second with no outs and Chris Duncan hits a monster shot into right that is caught at the wall. The runners moved up a base and next up was Ryan Ludwick. They put him on to bring up Brian Barden who was playing third. He hits a line drive that I thought was past the SS, but he lays out, snags the ball and flips it to the 2nd baseman while on the ground to double me up and end the game.

[jim416]

Re: This game has Comeback Code written all over it!!!

Because hes good friends with the lead programmers and designers and they tell him its not in the game perhaps?

Ive just won a game 10-2. Why wasnt it closer then? Is it because the "comeback code" didnt work (or more likely doesnt exist) or because i actually kept my level of performance up right to the end of the game to shut the AI out?

Honestly, i despair sometimes (and not at you Dave, i know you are only trying to be objective ).

Lol.

Am I only the only one seeing another thread that started before this one that is about the exact same thing?

Yeah, I thought I was seeing things after the mess of that other thread.

Comeback code worked for me yesterday. CPU leading all the way, me trying to catch up. I would have won the game in 9 had I not screwed up my baserunning in one inning, but I came back with the code and won in the 10th.

The game is intense. They should have put a warning on the cover "not for children", lol. We wanted a tougher game, we got it. And there are still sliders people can mess with.

[GoBucs09]

Re: This game has Comeback Code written all over it!!!

I think one critical thing in making any determination or opinion about this game is you need to play a lot of games, like 50 to 75 full 9 inning games.

Going from HoF in 08 to HoF 09 after only playing 15 games I can tell that the AI in 09 is leagues better then 08. Really, you have to play consistent and smart, you have to be focused, you can't just sit back and try to coast through the last 3 or 4 innings of a game. Last year you could play half hearted and still win games, this year you can't. The AI definitely picks up on human tendencies and patterns.

My initial opinion is that there isn't a comeback code built in or a bug/glitch.

Even if you think there is a comeback code, try to beat it, do the opposite of what you were going to do, if you were going to throw a slider inside don't, throw a fastball high and away instead. Try doing things you wouldn't normally do. Intentionally walk a guy with 2 outs and no one on base. Try to figure out how exactly the AI is coming back and then use it against the AI.

[EnigmaNemesis]

Re: This game has Comeback Code written all over it!!!

Lol.



Yeah, I thought I was seeing things after the mess of that other thread.

Comeback code worked for me yesterday. CPU leading all the way, me trying to catch up. I would have won the game in 9 had I not screwed up my baserunning in one inning, but I came back with the code and won in the 10th.

The game is intense. They should have put a warning on the cover "not for children", lol. We wanted a tougher game, we got it. And there are still sliders people can mess with.

Wow ... I just played a game just now against Baltimore @ Fenway.

The game was a pitching duel between Beckett and Guthrie. I struck first to make it 1-0 in the fifth with a home run by Varitek. From then on it was scoreless with a lot of heady D.

Then, the "comeback AI" I think was there. Since Drew was going back on a ball deep to right to have it just bounce over his head for a 1 out triple by Roberts. So I brought in Masterson to face the righty, who popped up at home for the out. Whew, not out of it yet. A leftie comes to bat, so I go to the pen and pull in Lopez. On the first pitch he gets him to ground out to first. Whew, AI avoided.

Come the 9th Paps strikes out the first batter ... then comes Wigginton, UH OH ... I left the fastball right in his hot spot ... darn that AI, 1-1 extra innings. Then it comes back again, bottom of the 12th, Bay hits a one out shot over the monster... Game over!

P.S. Sony needs to fix this, because I think we may have a heart attack from all this excitement.





That BS in there also stands for BullS***, not blown save, because of wretched AI making these games exciting. Great news is, I got the two walk off trophies!!! Thanks AI!

[nemesis04]

Re: This game has Comeback Code written all over it!!!

Still on the fence and probably always will be about this topic. Bottom line is there is just no way of proving or disproving it. Unless Russell explains how he knows there is no comeback ai in the game. I would like to know how you can come to a conclusion about it. How can you 100% positively say that it's not in the game. How do you test it??

Ramone is totally involved with the MLB team. His office is right in the middle of where the game is developed. So he is privy to the inner workings with the development of the game.

When we were at SD Chris Cutliff (Director of Production for The Show) was in the room talking to us about comeback code and was straight forward in telling us there was no comeback AI by default. Meaning the option was put in there if you wanted something like that in the game for an extra challenge. From my understanding, the comeback option works for both the human and the cpu, whoever is trailing in the game.