2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

[AC]

Re: 2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

OK, stupid question about the spreasheet, but why if Felix worth more than Kersh? I know Felix is one of if not, the best pitcher in baseball. But Kersh is in the same boat as King AND he's younger. No biggy though b/c he's still worth a CRAPLOAD of high A's...

To discourage people from trading for him even more.

Hint.

Hint.

Hint.

[rjackson]

Re: 2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

yeah i wudda prolly pulled the trigger on that trade if it was proposed to me....and i'd stay away from jacking up a guy's value just because it'd be unrealistic to trade him.....just state what he's realistically worth but then add *but it'd be unrealistic*...that's just me anyway

Yeah, this is the rub and why this thread will always be needed. This spreadsheet can help in how other teams might value a player but not the team that controls the player. For instance, it might be nice to play as the Diamondbacks and give the pale hose a low-B for Alexei Ramirez but there is no way that CWS does that trade.

By the way, I think that Beckham and Ramirez are under valued. Both are terrific defenders and that is where most of their OVR ratings come from in this game due to their position. Plus, scarcity and all...

[AC]

Re: 2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

What values do you propose for them?

[rjackson]

Re: 2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Meh, it's nothng really major. Ramirez is a low B in the spreadsheet but being 29 and a MLB everyday player, it should be at least a mid B. Alcides Escobar doesn't get his defensive metrics, is younger though and a good comp at the plate (though Alexei has more power) and he's a mid B.

Beckham, I understand hasn't yet met lofty expectations at the plate but he is still an A potential player, plus defensively, and again is an everyday player. Two high C's is low for any 2B at his age with this description.

Bautista definitely needs to be regraded, however. Agreed, nearly any trade for him is unrealistic but his true value is more like an A and two B's. I think a lot of TOR players are overvalued but I also think a lot of CWS players are undervalued, lol!

[AC]

Re: 2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Meh, it's nothng really major. Ramirez is a low B in the spreadsheet but being 29 and a MLB everyday player, it should be at least a mid B. Alcides Escobar doesn't get his defensive metrics, is younger though and a good comp at the plate (though Alexei has more power) and he's a mid B.

The bat has declined over the past few years whereas I'm particularly high on Escobar. I'd go another high C on Alexei though.

Beckham, I understand hasn't yet met lofty expectations at the plate but he is still an A potential player, plus defensively, and again is an everyday player. Two high C's is low for any 2B at his age with this description.

The fact that Backham is an A is a travesty lol. He doesn't really develop. I'll go Low B + mid C at highest.

Bautista definitely needs to be regraded, however. Agreed, nearly any trade for him is unrealistic but his true value is more like an A and two B's.

The lowest I'll go on Jose is Mid A, Low A, high B. 6.8 WAR, 8.3 WAR, and another 5-6 WAR season w/o his injury is worth more than that.

I think a lot of TOR players are overvalued but I also think a lot of CWS players are undervalued, lol!

Aside from JBau, which are overvalued?

[rjackson]

Re: 2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

The bat has declined over the past few years whereas I'm particularly high on Escobar. I'd go another high C on Alexei though.

Ramirez is top 5 defensively and the only thing wrong with his bat is he's swinging more. I see Escobar an aweful lot where I live and this is a terrific comp. They are virtually the same hitter though Ramirez used to have more pop--same approach, handedness, skillset, etc.

The fact that Beckham is an A is a travesty lol. He doesn't really develop. I'll go Low B + mid C at highest.

I agree with that and attribute it to the game putting more emphasis for grading on position--the up-the-middle defense must have a big effect here. irl, he and Maybin both made the exact same adjustments in their swing and there will be improvement for both if they stick with it--I guarantee it. But I digress, back to the game...

The lowest I'll go on Jose is Mid A, Low A, high B. 6.8 WAR, 8.3 WAR, and another 5-6 WAR season w/o his injury is worth more than that.

We cannot discount his injury nor assume he would have done anything the rest of the year...nor can we forget that he is past his prime and had 2 1/2 good years in his prime in an otherwise mediocre career. I'd say Low A and 2 B's.

Aside from JBau, which are overvalued?

That was mostly a joke but here's who I see:
Bonifacio (he's a utility player until he proves otherwise, I'll go one mid to low B at most)
Melky (I like the signing irl but he's got something to prove)
Rasmus (only slightly, though)

[AC]

Re: 2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Ramirez is top 5 defensively and the only thing wrong with his bat is he's swinging more. I see Escobar an aweful lot where I live and this is a terrific comp. They are virtually the same hitter though Ramirez used to have more pop--same approach, handedness, skillset, etc.

Ramirez's bat is still a problem, though, and he's older. Those are both facts and they're both gonna keep him from being as valuable as Escobar.

We cannot discount his injury nor assume he would have done anything the rest of the year...nor can we forget that he is past his prime and had 2 1/2 good years in his prime in an otherwise mediocre career. I'd say Low A and 2 B's.

Who's to say we should really count it, either? The only precedents to his procedure are Dan Johnson, Sam Fuld, some guy I forget, and Rickie Weeks. The only player close to JBau on that list is Weeks, who made a full recovery.

He may be past his prime, but at his prime he was at untouchable value.

A/A/B.

Bonifacio (he's a utility player until he proves otherwise, I'll go one mid to low B at most)

His 2011 was outstanding. Last year, he was injured. He's starting this year.

Melky (I like the signing irl but he's got something to prove)

Honestly, Melky is impossible to put a value on. I stared at my computer for a solid 10 minutes before making a decision lol.

Rasmus (only slightly, though)

Agree.

Responses in bold (tired of multiquoting)

[IWND46]

Re: 2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Hey guys. First post, just thought i would say to start off Ryan Cook of OAK wouldn't be traded. Highly talented Closer/set-up man? They have many years left of him, seems unrealistic to me. Plus STL just got R. Choate so he wouldn't be avaliable because of him being recently signed. Otherwise AMAZING evaluation of the rosters! Keep up the good work

[iRepIndiana]

Re: 2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Yopu know what, I'll got w/ your value b/c it's close to 2 A's...

And that's why we are a "Franchise" We've been around since the dawn of time. If I was a Cubs fan I would've lost that argument lol


105 years and counting!

HEY!!!!!

We're a franchise too!!!!!!!

[rjackson]

Re: 2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Hey guys. First post, just thought i would say to start off Ryan Cook of OAK wouldn't be traded. Highly talented Closer/set-up man? They have many years left of him, seems unrealistic to me. Plus STL just got R. Choate so he wouldn't be avaliable because of him being recently signed. Otherwise AMAZING evaluation of the rosters! Keep up the good work

I don't know...it seems like ol' Billy Beane wil trade anyone if he thinks it will help his team and payroll. Just ask Trevor Cahill and Gio Gonzalez.

[AC]

Re: 2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

There are, like, 3 untouchable relievers, and Cook is not one of them

[IWND46]

Re: 2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

I don't know...it seems like ol' Billy Beane wil trade anyone if he thinks it will help his team and payroll. Just ask Trevor Cahill and Gio Gonzalez.

Well, Gio and Cahill both were starters with huge upside and were 3-5 years in. Cook wouldn't be available, until maybe 2014. But yes Billy Beane is unpredictable, so i guess he would trade anyone if its a good deal..

[37]

Re: 2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Well, Gio and Cahill both were starters with huge upside and were 3-5 years in. Cook wouldn't be available, until maybe 2014. But yes Billy Beane is unpredictable, so i guess he would trade anyone if its a good deal..

im an A's fan and i'd disagree with the bolded part...if Cook had a solid first half and the A's are floundering next year, i really doubt BB would label Cook as an untouchable

[AC]

Re: 2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

The only non-Mariano reliever that's untouchable is Kimbrel, with Chapman moving to the rotation (yaaaay that's gonna be fun to watch). Cook had a solid season but he's just a good righty closer, sorta like Casey Janssen... but nothing special.

[Texas Fan]

Re: 2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

I've read around and you guys have a list of what the values of are people? If so where can I find this spread sheet at?

If not I'm looking to add mabye Lee, Price or Stanton. I'm playing with the offseason rosters and I'm just trying to waste time until the new show comes out.