Community Day 2013 - Gameplay - Questions/Concerns/Inquiries

[seanjeezy]

Re: Community Day 2013 - Gameplay - Questions/Concerns/Inquiries

But I think a bigger concern is how the game differentiates what type of balls to chase. It makes using splitters, forkballs, sinkers boring to use in game since you cant use them as intended. I can maybe recall 3 times I got a batter to chase on a splitter in the dirt and it was by accident. Since I don't expect the game to ever chase I was trying to throw it at the bottom of the zone.

I do agree that batters should chase more balls out of the zone in general, but I specifically want to see a drastic increase in balls swung at in the dirt first. That is the one aspect of this conversation that I dislike the most in the current game and would really love to see addressed.

I believe this has more to do with pitch movement, splitters and forkballs in the game look nothing like they do in real life. Look at the amount of movement Iwakuma gets on his splitter, you cannot do this in the game...



I asked Ramone if they planned to give pitches more dramatic movement in the future, he said it would make the game harder but they do have plans to rework trajectories in the future...

[MrOldboy]

Re: Community Day 2013 - Gameplay - Questions/Concerns/Inquiries

I believe this has more to do with pitch movement, splitters and forkballs in the game look nothing like they do in real life. Look at the amount of movement Iwakuma gets on his splitter, you cannot do this in the game...



I asked Ramone if they planned to give pitches more dramatic movement in the future, he said it would make the game harder but they do have plans to rework trajectories in the future...

The movement though doesn't bother me that much. If cpu hitters in the game reacted as they do in real life it wouldn't matter to me. They rarely chase anything in the dirt, curveballs, sliders, splitters, changeups. Its not the movement of the pitches that bother me its the cpu batters' reaction to those pitches.

It would be nice to get some more customization of pitch movements like MVP baseball. Not everyone's slider moves horizontally, some go almost 12 to 6. Its always a problem in The Show, hopefully they address it sooner or later.

[blueduke]

Re: Community Day 2013 - Gameplay - Questions/Concerns/Inquiries

I hope defensive positioning gets some attention. OF's play too shallow much of the time with the RF playing shallow even against power hitters.

[seanjeezy]

Re: Community Day 2013 - Gameplay - Questions/Concerns/Inquiries

The movement though doesn't bother me that much. If cpu hitters in the game reacted as they do in real life it wouldn't matter to me. They rarely chase anything in the dirt, curveballs, sliders, splitters, changeups. Its not the movement of the pitches that bother me its the cpu batters' reaction to those pitches.

It would be nice to get some more customization of pitch movements like MVP baseball. Not everyone's slider moves horizontally, some go almost 12 to 6. Its always a problem in The Show, hopefully they address it sooner or later.

My point was more in regard to the late break that certain pitches are known to have in real life, something that is absent in the game. I'm sure you already know, but the longer a pitch looks like a fastball the better, that's what makes the splitter so effective - look at how long Iwakuma's split stays straight and in the zone before falling off the table, the batter has no choice but to swing because the pitch looks like a strike for so long.

I guarantee the CPU would be more prone to chasing balls in the dirt if pitch trajectories were reworked to incorporate late movement, but I can also guarantee that hitting would become nearly impossible for the majority of buyers...

[jon1960ca]

Re: Community Day 2013 - Gameplay - A few suggestions to pass on to the developers

Community Day Folks,

A few "real baseball" items that I ask you to pass on or suggest to the developers, if you would, in hopes that they get into the game, or maybe have already been addressed. I am hoping the developers will note these for the CPU AI:

1. In a 1st and 3rd situation, with less than two outs, and an excellent bunter / speed guy at the plate, (Ichiro, for example) , real teams would still have the 3B in at the corner to prevent the bunt, and not back at DP depth.

2. Pitchers, and horribly slow runners (Lucas Duda, for example) are almost NEVER held on at First base, in any situation. The 1B will almost always play directly behind these runners.

3. IF a runner at 1B is NOT held on he should take the "big" lead, and not the regular lead, at 1B, and the logic should allow for those "extra steps" gained as part of a steal calculation, if he DOES go.

4. Pitcher Hold /Pickoff ratings should have a greater effect overall on base steal calculations as well as on the size of the "jump" that runner has when looking to go extra bases on a hit.

Thanks for your consideration of these items.

[nomo17k]

Re: Community Day 2013 - Gameplay - Questions/Concerns/Inquiries

My point was more in regard to the late break that certain pitches are known to have in real life, something that is absent in the game. I'm sure you already know, but the longer a pitch looks like a fastball the better, that's what makes the splitter so effective - look at how long Iwakuma's split stays straight and in the zone before falling off the table, the batter has no choice but to swing because the pitch looks like a strike for so long.

I guarantee the CPU would be more prone to chasing balls in the dirt if pitch trajectories were reworked to incorporate late movement, but I can also guarantee that hitting would become nearly impossible for the majority of buyers...

I'm not actually certain CPU is coded to react to the trajectory. It could be coded to react in certain ways against a particular pitch, you know what I mean? What I find a bit perplexing is that when I create a pitcher and fastball/change up combo, and fastball/splitter combo with the same speed differential, CPU doesn't get fooled by mixing up speeds the same way (I think...)... and although the split in the game doesn't "float" a bit like change up does in its trajectory, the trajectories of those pitches are not THAT different in the game. So if CPU is actually reacting to the trajectory and not pitch type itself, then I'd expect CPU to react similarly against change and splitter.

I have no problem throwing junk changeup to get CPU to be early on it, but I cannot do the same with splitter. He usually recognizes the latter and be quite right on with it, in terms of timing.



Iwakuma does have a nice split/forkball... the best forkball is basically like Dickey on steroid.... great forkballers can keep using the pitch all game long and can still keep hitters guessing. It's something to watch.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ffjsPYo_4kY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Sorry nem... get carried away with stuff like this, haha.....

[seanjeezy]

Re: Community Day 2013 - Gameplay - Questions/Concerns/Inquiries

I'm on my phone so I'm not going to go through the trouble of digging it up, but that quote by Brian_SCEA where he states the CPU is as clueless as to where a pitch will end up are makes me think they do, the CPU has to move the PCI to hit the ball just like a HUM user. Check the swing analysis after a CPU whiff and it is usually over on curves and lower on fastballs.

I'm probably wrong but splitters might be grouped into the fastball category so the CPU reacts to them like a fastball instead of a changeup... they removed the pitch charts and descriptions so I'm not really sure anymore.

[MrOldboy]

Re: Community Day 2013 - Gameplay - Questions/Concerns/Inquiries

In RTTS when you have pitch type training I thought splitfingers are considered offspeed. Fastballs were 4sfb, 2sfb, rfb, sinker, and cutter.

This is from 2011, but I'd assume it the same. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNhQKMwCygY

That doesn't mean the AI considers splits to be offspead as well, but it at least indicates that maybe the devs that did the batter AI were on the same page with whoever made the RTTS training.

[Bobhead]

Re: Community Day 2013 - Gameplay - Questions/Concerns/Inquiries

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...1Z4TC1zVHIwR1E
I have a bunch more numbers on my computer somewhere (I kinda got lazy about updating the online version), but this shows that the CPU is clearly superhuman when it comes to discerning strikes from balls, and good pitches to hit from bad ones.

Just so we are clear, Zone% in this chart represents the pitcher's ability to throw a strike, so it's irrelevant for this discussion. The number to look at is under O-Swing... which has an offset of about -6.5%, from the MLB average.

I also have to agree with MrOldBoy's observation, that pitches in the dirt are particularly easy for the CPU to lay off... It's something that is hard to quantify (I think?), but I definitely see it.

[nomo17k]

Re: Community Day 2013 - Gameplay - Questions/Concerns/Inquiries

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...1Z4TC1zVHIwR1E
I have a bunch more numbers on my computer somewhere (I kinda got lazy about updating the online version), but this shows that the CPU is clearly superhuman when it comes to discerning strikes from balls, and good pitches to hit from bad ones.

Just so we are clear, Zone% in this chart represents the pitcher's ability to throw a strike, so it's irrelevant for this discussion. The number to look at is under O-Swing... which has an offset of about -6.5%, from the MLB average.

I also have to agree with MrOldBoy's observation, that pitches in the dirt are particularly easy for the CPU to lay off... It's something that is hard to quantify (I think?), but I definitely see it.

Yeah please do give us numbers if you have... it's one thing to say that "we get a feeling that this aspect of the game is XXXX," but we make a much stronger case when we can back up the feeling with evidence. And ultimately I think that'll make it easier for the dev team to understand our concerns and going about solving it.

[ParisB]

Re: Community Day 2013 - Gameplay - Questions/Concerns/Inquiries

My point was more in regard to the late break that certain pitches are known to have in real life, something that is absent in the game. I'm sure you already know, but the longer a pitch looks like a fastball the better, that's what makes the splitter so effective - look at how long Iwakuma's split stays straight and in the zone before falling off the table, the batter has no choice but to swing because the pitch looks like a strike for so long.

I guarantee the CPU would be more prone to chasing balls in the dirt if pitch trajectories were reworked to incorporate late movement, but I can also guarantee that hitting would become nearly impossible for the majority of buyers...

AI isn't coded to judge trajectory.

[seanjeezy]

Re: Community Day 2013 - Gameplay - Questions/Concerns/Inquiries

AI isn't coded to judge trajectory.

Care to expand? If the CPU is constrained to the same rules as we are, how does it know where to place the PCI?

[DodgerFanatic2K3]

Re: Community Day 2013 - Gameplay - Questions/Concerns/Inquiries

For manual fielding was charging a ball and throwing from the outfield improved any? It could just be me of course but a lot of times when I try and charge a ball with an outfielder he just fields it on one hop instead of charging and throwing on the run.

Its like the outfielder gets stuck in a animation and will not let me charge the ball.

I noticed this too and I think it's like a fail safe animation to make sure that we don't overrun the ball

[Jaybirdy24]

Re: Community Day 2013 - Gameplay - Questions/Concerns/Inquiries

If its the ninth inning and your down by lets say 5 runs and you have a runner on first it should be like real life and there should be catchers indifference and the catcher shouldn't try to throw you out if you attempt to steal 2nd.

[ParisB]

Re: Community Day 2013 - Gameplay - Questions/Concerns/Inquiries

Care to expand? If the CPU is constrained to the same rules as we are, how does it know where to place the PCI?

Dice roll based on all the variables such as difficulty level, your pitcher attributes, meter precision, batter attributes etc.

The result is calculated the second you set the pitch in motion. The CPU doesn't "see" your pitch and react to it. The PCI moves based on the attributes such as plate coverage.