2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

[12]

If you want Snider, give them Pryor and Furbush.

Yeah, that is fair.

Morales + a B prospect was never intended simply for Snider; I should have done a better job clarifying that. I was also thinking Snider + high B/low A prospect, or Snider + 2 B's.

I have no desire to resign Morales as I want Montero to DH... He's a good player but it's not realistic that he resigns here in real life, anyway.

Miller/Franklin/Romero are all very solid prospects... But it's a log jam, because I DFA'd Andino and brought up Triunfel, who might be the SS of the future for me. In 21 games, he is hitting .285 with a .794 OPS, and is only 23 with an A potential.

So yeah, Morales and one of my middle infield prospects for some serious OF help + prospects near MLB ready is what I'm after.

I like Snider because he's still young and local, but he would be the smaller part of the deal.

[AC]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

What's Josh Bell's potential?

[nowitsourtime]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Who cares who's BABIP is higher? I'm stating the BABIP splits. And he's a 220 pound catcher with a ~20% line drive rate, that's not .330 BABIP like, more like .305.

Jackson was a rental, though, so he's probably about as valuable as a reliever in that situation. The Jays only gave up Frasor (bleh) and Zack Stewart (obvious bust was obvious) for him originally. And Texas' OF is pretty deep. Kinsler? Martin? Gentry? Cruz? That's a solid 4. A Kinsler + Martin/Gentry + Cruz OF would probably be one of the top 10 valuable outfields in the league.

His overall will regress, but that's not a good measure of player ability. I can periodically reup his OVR with his baserunning stats if you think that'd help make the trade more even.

Kinsler hasn't made the move to the OF yet and is Cruz likely to stick around? Serious question, idk if the Rangers would resign him if the price got too high.

Rough estimate for this one. If Jackson was traded exactly midway through the season, he would give the Cardinals about a value of 1.8 fWAR (accumulated 3.6 fWAR throughout the season. Idk exactly how much came with the Blue Jays and the Cardinals but IIRC he has around a 3.60 ERA with the Cards that year), which is a really good non-closer reliever. FWIW, Jonny Venters didn't reach that WAR in each of his full two seasons with the Braves. So if you want to classify his value to the Cards as a reliever, that's a really good reliever for a half a year. Now obviously he's a starter who will give you more innings than a reliever over the course of a half of season but if you compare his half a season of reliever value to a full year of a good reliever, he performed really well.

What I'm arguing is that if the Rangers trade for Arencibia to only platoon with AJ, they're really not getting that much, if any, upgrade over Soto at the plate. And I'm keeping out Soto's superior defense and pitch framing abilities.

So what would be Arencibia's purpose in Texas? Would he be a full time starter over AJ? Or would he just platoon with him? If it's the latter, I see no purpose for them to go out of their way to trade for Arencibia and give up Grimm to get him

[nowitsourtime]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

What's Josh Bell's potential?

I believe Bell is a high B

[AC]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Kinsler hasn't made the move to the OF yet and is Cruz likely to stick around? Serious question, idk if the Rangers would resign him if the price got too high.

Kinsler has stated he's willing to play wherever I'm pretty sure, and I see no reason he couldn't, he's very athletic. And I'd think if Texas wants to keep him, they'll keep him.

Rough estimate for this one. If Jackson was traded exactly midway through the season, he would give the Cardinals about a value of 1.8 fWAR (accumulated 3.6 fWAR throughout the season. Idk exactly how much came with the Blue Jays and the Cardinals but IIRC he has around a 3.60 ERA with the Cards that year), which is a really good non-closer reliever.

1.8 fWAR gives him Papelbon- actually, not gonna go there lol... John Axford or Greg Holland like value. He's essentially worth a couple of high C's in that scenario, but I think he pitched a bit better with STL.

FWIW, Jonny Venters didn't reach that WAR in each of his full two seasons with the Braves.

Please no one blast me for this, but I think Venters gets overrated because of his lefty-ness. He's an excellent reliever but he walks a few too many

So if you want to classify his value to the Cards as a reliever, that's a really good reliever for a half a year. Now obviously he's a starter who will give you more innings than a reliever over the course of a half of season but if you compare his half a season of reliever value to a full year of a good reliever, he performed really well.

Agreed, it was a very good half year, but I'd put it at two high C's, sound reasonable?

What I'm arguing is that if the Rangers trade for Arencibia to only platoon with AJ, they're really not getting that much, if any, upgrade over Soto at the plate. And I'm keeping out Soto's superior defense and pitch framing abilities.

It's not strictly a handedness platoon, though, which I think you've missed the point of. He'd be shifting between 1B, C, and DH.

So what would be Arencibia's purpose in Texas? Would he be a full time starter over AJ? Or would he just platoon with him? If it's the latter, I see no purpose for them to go out of their way to trade for Arencibia and give up Grimm to get him

^^^^^

Grimm's ceiling isn't the highest either, and I'm not trading JPA because he sucks in game. He's a valuable asset in game because defense isn't accounted for with catchers. I'm doing this out of principle. JPA in game is well worth Grimm.

I believe Bell is a high B

Then Morales + Paxton for Bell + Snider?

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Actually, since I don't think they'd platoon the two, and I really like the idea of Justin Grimm, how's this for a three way trade?

To the Rangers: J.P. Arencibia, Darren Oliver, Chris Heisey
To the Reds: Daniel Murphy, Anthony Alford, Geovanni Soto
To the Blue Jays: Ryan Hanigan, Justin Grimm

Well this is strange, I am seeing AC argue how valuable a RELIEVER (and not only that, a LOOGY) can be to a contending team....hmmm, a bit of deja vu here.

Anyway, I would tend to agree with nowitsourtime, that adding 40+ y/o Darren Oliver (to a team that most of the LOOGY innings are already eaten up by the much younger and better Robbie Ross) doesn't give Texas enough value to make a lateral move at catcher (and I have seen Soto play in much more than 2 games , and nowitsourtime IS correct, Soto is much more dangerous against lefties) and a downgrade in the OF.

The real sticking point that I have is the whole David Murphy-Chris Heisey component. That would make Texas way too right handed with only Moreland/Berkman and A.J. giving them any semblance of left-handed power. I think David Murphy has a unique value to Texas so he'd cost a bit more.

I also think if AC is actually able to set Texas' lineup to have Kinsler in LF and Profar at 2B it's less of an issue since Profar is a switch-hitter.

I think it's close, but as currently constructed I think both the Reds and Jays are coming out slightly ahead at expense of Texas. I'd suggest adding a low-mid C from TOR and a mid-high C from CIN to TEX.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Morales + a B prospect was never intended simply for Snider; I should have done a better job clarifying that. I was also thinking Snider + high B/low A prospect, or Snider + 2 B's.

I don't think Kendrys Morales to PIT is a viable option because they have Garrett Jones and Morales is best suited for an AL club. I'd suggest make the deal for Snider with prospects and then flipping Morales to possibly the Blue Jays, Orioles, or Rays. All of those teams could use an upgrade at DH.

[CameRoN0407]

I don't think Kendrys Morales to PIT is a viable option because they have Garrett Jones and Morales is best suited for an AL club. I'd suggest make the deal for Snider with prospects and then flipping Morales to possibly the Blue Jays, Orioles, or Rays. All of those teams could use an upgrade at DH.

I agree with you all the way up to "I'd suggest". Kendrys is a DH. He is a horrid fielder, but his hitting is sub-par at most. Yes, he can pop a few bombs, but nothing big. I don't see any of those teams bothering with him. EE is a very good DH for the Jays, but his defense is below-par. The O's dont want a 30 year old mess, nor do the Rays. Just my $0.02.


Sent from my iPhone via Tapatalk

[AC]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Well this is strange, I am seeing AC argue how valuable a RELIEVER (and not only that, a LOOGY) can be to a contending team....hmmm, a bit of deja vu here.

Hmm, but I'm not asking for Mike Olt, am I?

Or would you like to criticize Grimm because he's 24? lol

Anyway, I would tend to agree with nowitsourtime, that adding 40+ y/o Darren Oliver (to a team that most of the LOOGY innings are already eaten up by the much younger and better Robbie Ross)

Teams should have more than one loogy.

doesn't give Texas enough value to make a lateral move at catcher

In a game where defense at catcher doesn't matter as much, how is that a lateral move?

nowitsourtime IS correct, Soto is much luckieragainst lefties)

FTFY.

The real sticking point that I have is the whole David Murphy-Chris Heisey component. That would make Texas way too right handed with only Moreland/Berkman and A.J. giving them any semblance of left-handed power.

I suggest some LHB at the end of the post.

I think David Murphy has a unique value to Texas so he'd cost a bit more.

Why...?

I also think if AC is actually able to set Texas' lineup to have Kinsler in LF and Profar at 2B it's less of an issue since Profar is a switch-hitter.

Oh, the beauty of 30 team control.

I think it's close, but as currently constructed I think both the Reds and Jays are coming out slightly ahead at expense of Texas. I'd suggest adding a low-mid C from TOR and a mid-high C from CIN to TEX.

Clint Robinson and Jack Hannahan/Derrick Robinson? to TEX?

[Shock1011]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

With all the Giancarlo trades people want to do I have a thought...How bad would he be as a 1B defensively?


Also

Rangers Get: Corey Hart

Brewers Get: Mitch Moreland + a RP but I need some ideas

[AC]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

With all the Giancarlo trades people want to do I have a thought...How bad would he be as a 1B defensively?

He'd be fine, he'd just lose a looooooot of value.

And your trade is lopsided for Texas.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

I agree with you all the way up to "I'd suggest". Kendrys is a DH. He is a horrid fielder, but his hitting is sub-par at most. Yes, he can pop a few bombs, but nothing big. I don't see any of those teams bothering with him. EE is a very good DH for the Jays, but his defense is below-par. The O's dont want a 30 year old mess, nor do the Rays. Just my $0.02.


Sent from my iPhone via Tapatalk

Fair enough. I still think Morales would be an upgrade over Lind (who I think is DHing? Or is Edwin DHing?), Wilson Betemit (O's) and Luke Scott (D-Rays). All of those players are older (?) than Morales and with less of a bat.

Clint Robinson and Jack Hannahan/Derrick Robinson? to TEX?

Yep, I think that would be fine. Give Texas all the Robinsons they can handle!

As far as Murphy being a good fit for Texas, I think he has more value there basically because they don't have any left-handed hitting studs after losing J-Ham. Taking him away would make it a bigger issue.

[AC]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Yep, I think that would be fine. Give Texas all the Robinsons they can handle!

As far as Murphy being a good fit for Texas, I think he has more value there basically because they don't have any left-handed hitting studs after losing J-Ham. Taking him away would wake it a bigger issue.

Alright, I'll probably end up doing that.

Oh, I thought you meant more than just marginally overpaying for him lol

Oh and check your PMs, bro!

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Alright, I'll probably end up doing that.

Oh, I thought you meant more than just marginally overpaying for him lol

Oh and check your PMs, bro!

Yeah, just responded to your PM.

[Shock1011]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

He'd be fine, he'd just lose a looooooot of value.

And your trade is lopsided for Texas.

LOL I edited the post but I guess it didn't save so yeah that was a pretty lopsided deal

Is Corey Hart for Kirkman, Moreland, and Grimm/Jackson to much value for Hart?