2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

[CKW11]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

The CPU pulled off this trade without me having a chance to review it. Luckily I'm using 30 team control so I can take it back.

NYY gets: Hisashi Iwakuma & Jesus Montero
SEA gets: Gary Sanchez & Mason Williams

Is this plausible in any way? I'm thinking I'll have to take it back. It's not like the Yankees need either player that badly and they're giving up a couple of A POT prospects.

It's definitely not realistic. It's fairness would have to be evaluated by someone else as I don't kno much about the Yanks prospects but the Yankees just traded Montero to the Ms a couple seasons ago.

[AC]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Better to hit .300 in a small sample than .152 though.

It actually makes absolutely no difference.

For every Adam Dunn you can toss at me, I can toss 20-30 Brett Jacksons back ().

I will say this again and hope you don't ignore this for the literally 4th time, Mike Trout put up 10 WAR while striking out 21% of the time. I don't care how many Jacksons you can toss back, if anyone can put up those numbers with those K's, then it's certainly possible.

Simple fact is it's better to put the ball in play than K, and once you start going over 20-25% K-rate on a consistent basis, it becomes very hard to maintain useful average and OBP levels. Adam Dunn is the exception, not the rule. You have to have 80 power and 70+ plate discipline to make this work...which is rare.

You don't have to have 80 power, Trout doesn't. But let's list some examples. Warning: THERE ARE A LOT.

Spoiler

Ryan Howard
Adam Dunn
Chris Davis
Mike Trout
Pete Incaviglia
Kelly Johnson
Jonny Gomes
Carlos Pena
Mike Napoli
B.J. Upton
Jim Thome
Austin Jackson
Mike Cameron
Pat Burrell
Jayson Werth
Jose Canseco
Jay Bruce
Jay Buhner
Matt Kemp
Dan Uggla
Richie Sexson
Dave Sveum (not really, he sucked, just figured I'd throw him in )
Danny Tartabull
Rickie Weeks
Sammy Sosa
Ray Lankford
Brandon Inge
Justin Upton
Jason Bay
Reggie Sanders
Jesse Barfield
Curtis Granderson
Mickey Tettleton
Reggie Jackson
Eric Davis
Charles Johnson
Chris Young
Gary Pettis
Geoff Jenkins
Andres Galaragga
Adam LaRoche
Chase Headley
Carlos Gomez
Adolfo Phillips
Geovany Soto (I dare you, argue this one lol)
Mo Vaughn
Don Clendenon
Andres Torres
Ryan Ludwick
Cecil Fielder
Nelson Cruz
Dick Stuart
Eric Hinske
Tony Armas
Bobby Bonds
Damian Miller
Troy Glaus
Phil Nevin
Jim Edmonds
Juan Samuel
Josh Willingham
Austin Kearns
Willie Stargell
Cody Ross
Greg Vaughn
Darryl Starberry
David Freese
Nick Swisher
Carlos Gonzalez
Shin-soo Choo
Dick Allen
Tommie Agee
Jason Heyward
Desmond Jennings
Rick Monday
Mack Jones
Jose Cruz
Alfonso Soriano (lololol)
Glenallen Hill
Jeromy Burnitz
Alex Gordon
Mark McGwire
Jason Varitek
Luke Scott
Jose Valentin
Franklin Gutierrez
Corey Hart
Casey Blake
Derrek Lee (lololol)
Woodie Held
Jorge Posada
Jhonny Peralta
Michael Bourn
Mark Whiten
Andruw Jones
Grady Sizemore
Carlos Delgado
Corey Koskie
Travis Hafner
Josh Hamilton

ALL OF THOSE GUYS (except Freese, Jennings and Sveum) put up a 20% K-rate and over 10 career WAR. Multiple HOFers. Plenty of everyday current players. Can you stop the ridiculous saying that you can't be an every day player if you strike out a lot? Because even if you provide examples of not being able to, the fact is, you can, because if Willie Stargell can K over 20% of the time and be on this list, I'm quite sure it's possible.

And consider this for Olt...

Last year it was strongly rumored that Texas was willing to trade (at least) Olt and Martin Perez for Matt Garza before he got hurt.

Link?

Garza of the 3.99 career FIP to Norris' 4.19 career FIP. Norris is also much cheaper and 2 years younger.

Garza is also overrated, but he's at least had a recent 5+ WAR career.

So, to me, it's pretty obvious that there is less than a "Martin Perez" difference in Garza and Norris' value (is 0.20 in FIP worth a solid B prospect?), so Olt for Norris should fly.

Once again, overrated.

It would be the ultimate "in your face" if this trade actually happens IRL. We'll see what Houston actually gets when they inevitably trade Norris, but it should be able to tell us if I am right or wrong.

But the vindication will be oh so sweeter for I when they get a decent package and not Mike ****ing Olt.

EDIT: Norris career xFIP = 4.03, Garza career xFIP = 4.04 if that matters to you.

Still overrated.

NYY gets: Hisashi Iwakuma & Jesus Montero
SEA gets: Gary Sanchez & Mason Williams

Too much but not absolutely ridiculous.

[Coper3000]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Oh, then your Norris trade is completely fine.



Veras really isn't that much of an upgrade.

Thanks for the replies. Still thinking about pulling the trigger on this, but only want to use one trade.

Edit - Wrote a whole lot about landing Matt Adams, but don't want to follow through with that trade. I really want to land some-sort of SS that can hold down the position for a season or two - possibly longer since all of my SS prospects are playing horrible (Correa is just in A).

Looking from a realistic point of view - are any of the following SS's worth trading and would their teams trade them:

Jose Iglesias, BOS
Dee Gordon, LAD
Pastornicky, ATL
Zach Walters, WAS
Jason Martinson, WAS
Jeudy Valdez, SD

[bwoodring9]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Thanks for the replies. Still thinking about pulling the trigger on this, but only want to use one trade.

Edit - Wrote a whole lot about landing Matt Adams, but don't want to follow through with that trade. I really want to land some-sort of SS that can hold down the position for a season or two - possibly longer since all of my SS prospects are playing horrible (Correa is just in A).

Looking from a realistic point of view - are any of the following SS's worth trading and would their teams trade them:

Jose Iglesias, BOS
Dee Gordon, LAD
Pastornicky, ATL
Zach Walters, WAS
Jason Martinson, WAS
Jeudy Valdez, SD

I too focus on realism quite a bit, and I traded for Dee Gordon in my Phillies franchise. Personally, I don't see why they wouldn't trade him for something that can help the make a playoff push. As far as I know, the Dodgers have put him in the minors multiple times in the last year or so, and if they can get a nice pitcher, 2nd baseman, or third baseman, I think they 'd trade him. Especially since they have Hanley. I traded Utley for him in my franchise.

[CameRoN0407]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Thanks for the replies. Still thinking about pulling the trigger on this, but only want to use one trade.

Edit - Wrote a whole lot about landing Matt Adams, but don't want to follow through with that trade. I really want to land some-sort of SS that can hold down the position for a season or two - possibly longer since all of my SS prospects are playing horrible (Correa is just in A).

Looking from a realistic point of view - are any of the following SS's worth trading and would their teams trade them:

Jose Iglesias, BOS
Dee Gordon, LAD
Pastornicky, ATL
Zach Walters, WAS
Jason Martinson, WAS
Jeudy Valdez, SD

All of them are realistic. Just look at the spreadsheet for values.

[Coper3000]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

I too focus on realism quite a bit, and I traded for Dee Gordon in my Phillies franchise. Personally, I don't see why they wouldn't trade him for something that can help the make a playoff push. As far as I know, the Dodgers have put him in the minors multiple times in the last year or so, and if they can get a nice pitcher, 2nd baseman, or third baseman, I think they 'd trade him. Especially since they have Hanley. I traded Utley for him in my franchise.

Gordon would be a nice addition and could use a change of scenery, especially where there is not a lot of high expectations (like HOU). I've got a few SS prospect in the wings in: Fontana (Possible 2014 call up), Jonathan Villar, Jo Mier, and Correa (a few years away of course), so I don't want to give up a huge prospect.

The Dodgers are in first place in their division, but could use a bullpen, catching help, a possible 4th OF.

No problem trading:

Bullpen
Jo Mier
Corporan (or any catching that isn't Castro, Stassi, or Perez)
Others

Can't decide on if trading a prospect in Mier, a decent backup catcher in Corporan, or relief pitching benefits them most.


Edit - I checked Gordons value and it's two B's and a C. Is that still right?

[bwoodring9]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Gordon would be a nice addition and could use a change of scenery, especially where there is not a lot of high expectations (like HOU). I've got a few SS prospect in the wings in: Fontana (Possible 2014 call up), Jonathan Villar, Jo Mier, and Correa (a few years away of course), so I don't want to give up a huge prospect.

The Dodgers are in first place in their division, but could use a bullpen, catching help, a possible 4th OF.

No problem trading:

Bullpen
Jo Mier
Corporan (or any catching that isn't Castro, Stassi, or Perez)
Others

Can't decide on if trading a prospect in Mier, a decent backup catcher in Corporan, or relief pitching benefits them most.


Edit - I checked Gordons value and it's two B's and a C. Is that still right?

I'm not too familiar with the spreadsheet yet myself, but I'd say if you can give them a position they need that can help them contend then it's fine. Maybe throw in a low end prospect too. Send me a PM with how you plan on developing Gordon if you do end up up getting him, I'm still debating how to train him in my franchise as well.

[Coper3000]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

I'm not too familiar with the spreadsheet yet myself, but I'd say if you can give them a position they need that can help them contend then it's fine. Maybe throw in a low end prospect too. Send me a PM with how you plan on developing Gordon if you do end up up getting him, I'm still debating how to train him in my franchise as well.

Thanks and will do. I've decided I am going to swing a trade for Gordon. After I do, the plan will be to immediately stick him at SS (Astros) and let him finish out the rest of the season (2013 season, I'm at the trade deadline).

Unless he is just absolutely atrocious (worse than Cedeno and Marwin) then I imagine he will also be in play to start 2014 at SS until either Fontana or Villar are ready - unless Dee is playing at a high caliber, in which he will remain the starter.

Deciding on Corporan or (Wesley Wright, RP) + J. Mier for Dee Gordon.

[Jakesparrow1008]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

As the Mariners, who should I give up for either Jarrod Saltalamachhia or John Buck?

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

I'm currently 51-34 with the Red Sox and am looking for a SS and a 3B. The Angels are currently 43-43 and 9.5 games behind the Rangers. Erick Aybar has been splitting time with Segura at SS and has only hit .221 4 HR 14 RBI over 41 games. What would be a fair trade for Aybar?

Spreadsheet says low B + high C. It's not realistic but what prospects would you be willing to part with? And why is Segura still on the Angels?

The CPU pulled off this trade without me having a chance to review it. Luckily I'm using 30 team control so I can take it back.

NYY gets: Hisashi Iwakuma & Jesus Montero
SEA gets: Gary Sanchez & Mason Williams

Is this plausible in any way? I'm thinking I'll have to take it back. It's not like the Yankees need either player that badly. I think they've got a good enough lineup even without Montero and catching-wise he's not going to help them. And they're giving up a couple of A POT prospects.

100% implausible. The Yanks ain't taking Montero back after he's cratered like this and definitely not at THAT price. That's arguably their top 2 prospects.

I will say this again and hope you don't ignore this for the literally 4th time, Mike Trout put up 10 WAR while striking out 21% of the time. I don't care how many Jacksons you can toss back, if anyone can put up those numbers with those K's, then it's certainly possible.

20% K-rate and over 10 career WAR. Multiple HOFers. Plenty of everyday current players. Can you stop the ridiculous saying that you can't be an every day player if you strike out a lot?

Define a lot. If Olt is K'ing 25-30% in the minors (and over 40% with his vision issues) what makes you think he'll cut his K's into the low 20's facing better pitching? Trout K'd in the mid-high teens in the minors, and is over 20% (barely).

I'd expect Olt to K at a 30%+ rate in the bigs. How does your list hold up for only players with K-rates over 30%? Not that well? I'm totally SHOCKED!

Would you stop being ridiculous as in implying that striking out a lot is some part of being a great player. Great players that strike out a lot are great in spite of that weakness. And, YES, great players K'ing over 30% are VERY RARE.


Link?


http://mlbreports.com/2013/01/18/garza/

Paragraph 6. I can get another reference if this is not suitable for you.

Garza is also overrated, but he's at least had a recent 5+ WAR career.

Yeah, he is overrated, but the point is trade value is not based on how good someone actually is. Teams would have to pay to get a good young starter like Garza or Norris regardless of if you find them overrated. It's just the market value for starting pitching.

Norris will have a 5+ WAR career after this season as well (he's on pace for a 2.5-3.0 fWAR season), and is younger. If you're into setting arbitrary threshholds.....

But the vindication will be oh so sweeter for I when they get a decent package and not Mike ****ing Olt.

Well they probably don't make that trade anyway because it's in the same division. But I bet they get equivalent value or better for Norris from some needy contender.

Some responses in bold.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

As the Mariners, who should I give up for either Jarrod Saltalamachhia or John Buck?

For Salty, give Stephen Pryor/Carter Capps + Talyor Ard

For Buck, probably a bag of balls would suffice, but if not, a low C-rated OF prospect.

[AC]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

I'm sorry, I can't hold a debate with someone who lets their personal biases get in the way. Expecting Olt to strike out at a 30% clip is ridiculous and extremely biased, so this is done until you show you can actually hold a debate.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Haha, is that how you concede?

What in Olt's career numbers tell you a 30% rate is ridiculous? How is it biased when he's bordering on that already in the minors? (EDIT: 32.5% career K-rate)

I echo your sentiments, this debate is over.

[nl15]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Spreadsheet says low B + high C. It's not realistic but what prospects would you be willing to part with? And why is Segura still on the Angels?

I have MLB 12 and i'll part with any prospects.

[AC]

Re: 2013 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Haha, is that how you concede?

What in Olt's career numbers tell you a 30% rate is ridiculous? How is it biased when he's bordering on that already in the minors? (EDIT: 32.5% career K-rate)

I echo your sentiments, this debate is over.

It's better than condescendingly suggesting you know more than everyone in here. "I've forgotten more than..."

You realize that when you subtract this year, which is 1.) SSS and 2.) plagued by vision problems, you get a 24.8 K%, right?

Ridiculous.