CPU vs CPU

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: CPU vs CPU

Have any of you tested the injury slider?...Both for playing, and simming.

[DaiYoung]

Re: CPU vs CPU

Have any of you tested the injury slider?...Both for playing, and simming.

Not me. I have CPU Roster control on which eliminates injuries. Wish I hadn't gone with that option because I like the idea of manual injuries but that's a separate topic.

[steviegolfballs]

Re: CPU vs CPU

Thanks for keeping us updated on your experimentation stevie. Interesting that you also prefer fielder throwing zeroed out, seems quite a few people like it that way.

What I might do is tally up all the outfield assists in my franchise so far and see how that compares with the real life bigs. I won't be able to obtain an exact figure because of outfielders who also play infield positions (and vice versa) but I should be able to get a rough idea.

It just seems to me when I actually watch one of the games that a lot of runners get cut down trying to take extra bases and especially when going from 2nd to 3rd. It's not that I really want the slider set to 0 but I am looking for a way to get that more in line with real baseball. I don't have stats to back this up, more of an eye test.

On a note about dropping the runner speed to 4, I doubt this test will last much longer as it is very much dropping the amount of extra base hits. In the five games played since my last post, only one of them produced more than one double in a game. I'm going to play a few more but if I don't see an improvement I will assume that BASE RUNNER SPEED has to be at a 5.

[Braves Fan]

Re: CPU vs CPU

Have any of you tested the injury slider?...Both for playing, and simming.

1 for simming, maxed out for playing

[Foo4Everlong]

Re: CPU vs CPUof the i

Not quite sure I follow your reasoning. Extending your thoughts, wouldn't every slider be at zero?

As for fielder speed, reaction and arm strength. I've seen other people argue that these look unrealistic but I can't say it's something that strikes me when watching games. More important than my perception is that the default fielding sliders produce the correct proportion of extra base hits. If you were to lower all of the sliders you mentioned to zero you would also have to lower CPU hitting sliders significantly to avoid an offensive surge.

In past versions of the game the fielding sliders have always needed tinkering with to try and get sufficient doubles and triples. To me that isn't a problem with this year's game, so they are not sliders I'm thinking of altering.

I was just saying that each player has arm strength and arm accuracy under their Attributes in the player edit section. Just curious what u thought about lowering it, possbly to zero, and just go off of what each player has for their own attribute. Just curious what u thought. I hope that's not too complicated. Sorry about being unclear in my previous post. Thanks much! I'm really enjoying this thread, and the settings are fantastic! Later

[DaiYoung]

Re: CPU vs CPUof the i

I was just saying that each player has arm strength and arm accuracy under their Attributes in the player edit section. Just curious what u thought about lowering it, possbly to zero, and just go off of what each player has for their own attribute. Just curious what u thought. I hope that's not too complicated. Sorry about being unclear in my previous post. Thanks much! I'm really enjoying this thread, and the settings are fantastic! Later

No need to apologise Foo4Everlong, always interesting to hear other people's thoughts.

I think you're a slightly misunderstanding how sliders work in the game. Think of sliders as modifiers of the ratings rather than something that overrides player ratings.

With Fielder Throwing at default (5) there is still going to be a big difference between Jay Bruce and Johnny Damon. If you zero out the slider you will make Damon even more of a noodle arm but you will also reduce Bruce's arm strength. The difference between them will stay pretty much the same.

On a separate note it may still be that default Fielder Throwing leads to too many outfield assists, I've seen a number of people post that view. Hopefully later today I'm going to try and figure out from the stats in my franchise if that is the case.

[nomo17k]

Re: CPU vs CPUof the i

I was just saying that each player has arm strength and arm accuracy under their Attributes in the player edit section. Just curious what u thought about lowering it, possbly to zero, and just go off of what each player has for their own attribute. Just curious what u thought. I hope that's not too complicated. Sorry about being unclear in my previous post. Thanks much! I'm really enjoying this thread, and the settings are fantastic! Later

I think that's not how sliders work in general. Of course only the devs know for sure, but sliders are used to change the global scaling of some attribute ratings. Not sure if this makes it clearer or more obscure, but if you write a math equation it would go like this.

With slider at default,

(after) = 1.0 * (before)

With slider at 10, for example,

(after) = 1.5 * (before)

With slider at 0,

(after) = 0.5 * (before)

So the slider has an effect of boosting or reducing a rating by 50% in this example.

This is just an example from my speculation and who knows what formula SCEA actually uses, but you are not washing away the attribute rating differences among players by adjusting sliders.

[DaiYoung]

Re: CPU vs CPUof the i

I think that's not how sliders work in general. Of course only the devs know for sure, but sliders are used to change the global scaling of some attribute ratings. Not sure if this makes it clearer or more obscure, but if you write a math equation it would go like this.

With slider at default,

(after) = 1.0 * (before)

With slider at 10, for example,

(after) = 1.5 * (before)

With slider at 0,

(after) = 0.5 * (before)

So the slider has an effect of boosting or reducing a rating by 50% in this example.

This is just an example from my speculation and who knows what formula SCEA actually uses, but you are not washing away the attribute rating differences among players by adjusting sliders.

That sums it up a bit better than I did.

Using the example of Jay Bruce vs Johnny Damon, you can see that zeroing the slider could actually reduce the difference between the two:

Let's say Bruce has an 80 arm and Damon 40 (I can't recall the exact ratings). If the modifying effect of the slider at zero is (rating * 0.5) then with the slider at zero Bruce's arm becomes a 40 and Damon's a 20. The gap in ability between the two is narrowed.

[DaiYoung]

Re: CPU vs CPU

OK, it seems that there may be too many runners being thrown out from the outfield compared to the MLB average:

In my franchise, through 244 games, there have been approximately* 126 outfield assists - 0.52 per game. In the 2010 Majors there were 819 outfield assists in 2430 games - 0.34 per game.

I think that amounts to a significant difference - 126 runners thrown out from the OF when the expected number is something like 84.

I guess the next question is whether this is down to overly powerful OF arms, slightly poor CPU baserunning AI, baserunner speed being too slow, or some combination of those three factors.



*Admittedly, the total in my franchise is an approximation. I didn't count the assists of players like Mark DeRosa who play multiple positions. If I couldn't be sure the assist was from the outfield I didn't count it. On the flip side, I counted all the assists of players who can only play in the outfield in the game but it may have been that some of those were recorded when an outfielder was pushed into emergency infield action. Corey Hart, for example, has seven assists, seems suspiciously high.

[nomo17k]

Re: CPU vs CPU

OK, it seems that there may be too many runners being thrown out from the outfield compared to the MLB average:

In my franchise, through 244 games, there have been approximately* 126 outfield assists - 0.52 per game. In the 2010 Majors there were 819 outfield assists in 2430 games - 0.34 per game.

I think that amounts to a significant difference - 126 runners thrown out from the OF when the expected number is something like 84.

I guess the next question is whether this is down to overly powerful OF arms, slightly poor CPU baserunning AI, baserunner speed being too slow, or some combination of those three factors.



*Admittedly, the total in my franchise is an approximation. I didn't count the assists of players like Mark DeRosa who play multiple positions. If I couldn't be sure the assist was from the outfield I didn't count it. On the flip side, I counted all the assists of players who can only play in the outfield in the game but it may have been that some of those were recorded when an outfielder was pushed into emergency infield action. Corey Hart, for example, has seven assists, seems suspiciously high.

Nice estimate Dai. The game doesn't keep track of defensive stats by position, so that makes it difficult to interpret some players... I might actually do similar estimate just to compare with your number to make sure it's not an anomaly.

I'm actually not very optimistic any combo can really nail this down without making other stats off balance, just because I don't think it's one slider that fixes the issue and things can be very complicated once you start varying more than one slider at once. I should say you can, but it will take some lengthy experimentation.

And outfield assists really depends on situations and we don't know the recipe SCEA uses for base running decisions, not to mention we don't have any control over them. I personally think the most important factor (in game) is base running aggressiveness, and if we have a slider to control it we can reduce the number of assists alone. After all, there would be few assists with station-to-station base runners. But I don't think we have control over that aspect of the game, so we are out of luck. I know there is the base running aggressiveness rating, but...

I'd be impressed if someone has an idea to get this part right with some simple slider adjustment.

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: CPU vs CPU

This may or may not be helpful, but I've dropped arm strength 1 click and haven't seen any noticable inflation of infield hits.

Maybe worth a shot???

[nomo17k]

Re: CPU vs CPU

This may or may not be helpful, but I've dropped arm strength 1 click and haven't seen any noticable inflation of infield hits.

Maybe worth a shot???

Remember that outfielders with strongest arms don't necessarily have the most assists, because smart base runners wouldn't run against their arms. Same thing could happen in the game. By reducing arm strength in general, runners might go more often for an extra base.

I actually like the idea of dropping arm strength personally because I feel the game is a tad quicker than the real life games... just personal taste I guess.

But for testing and especially when we don't know what effect we would see at all, it may be a good idea to change a slider by A LOT so that the effect you are seeking become very obvious. Also we need to remember we are almost always fighting against small sample size, so any results after a couple dozen games are strictly speaking not really enough in a statistical sense. But you can reasonably hope if something drastically changes by changing a slider drastically, it should show up somewhere.

So if I test arm strength, I'd start with 0 to see what aspect of game changes. If you see a desired effect but is too much of it, then you have an idea about where to leave the slider... That's what I learned so far by messing with sliders.

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: CPU vs CPU

Oh, yes, I definitely understand this.

There has to be a calculation involved in the baserunning aggressiveness. Unless a Dev spilled the beans, there's really no way to know for certain.

It could be a 'speed+score+aggressiveness+arm strength+field depth calculation,' for instance. Where the end number determines whether or not a runner takes that chance.

All I was saying is that dropping arm strength a click hasn't had any noticable impact on infield singles stemming from choppers to the P, C, or 3B. At some point, whether that be 4 or 0, you'd have to assume that faster runners with slower throwers would end up beating those out.

[nomo17k]

Re: CPU vs CPU

Oh, yes, I definitely understand this.

There has to be a calculation involved in the baserunning aggressiveness. Unless a Dev spilled the beans, there's really no way to know for certain.

It could be a 'speed+score+aggressiveness+arm strength+field depth calculation,' for instance. Where the end number determines whether or not a runner takes that chance.

All I was saying is that dropping arm strength a click hasn't had any noticable impact on infield singles stemming from choppers to the P, C, or 3B. At some point, whether that be 4 or 0, you'd have to assume that faster runners with slower throwers would end up beating those out.

I see I probably misunderstood what you meant.

Thing is, when AI gets involved things can become very complicated as you mentioned.

For example, I was wondering why *increasing* the BR steal ability slider actually increases CS and reduces SB success rate. Now, it's entirely possible SCEA just implemented the slider incorrectly, but it's also possible boosting steal ability may have an effect on "borderline" good base stealers to take off more, thinking they are better stealers than they actually are. That would result in more failures and CS. Great base stealers will steal and have success no matter what, so no change there.

At least base steal success can be controlled by one slider, but outfield assists may not be as simple. That was my point.

[Joey Sauce]

Re: CPU vs CPU

I'm gonna start to get the ball rolling on my franchise tomorrow if the opening day rosters come out (maybe they already have, i havent been online)

-so which slider set seems to be the most statistically sound thus far? that will be the one i will use as i begin this **** cpu vs cpu franchise with the red sox

opening day is 1 day away boys