Itbeme23 True Simulation Sliders - 2016

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  • The Kid 24
    It's Show Time!
    • Jan 2007
    • 14762

    #16
    Re: Itbeme23 True Simulation Sliders - 2016

    Originally posted by stealyerface
    Glad you found some success in your game at Zeros. You really want to take a white knuckle ride, bump up the pitching difficulty for a game to the Legend difficulty.

    What I realized is that the pitching feedback via the vibration, is so, so, so sensitive, that it requires you to feel the buzzing on the controller, then move it a red one back towards the zone to dial in the black.

    But alas, yes you made the great point that the CPU seems to “realize” that you have set your sliders to Zero, so they become ultra aggressive early on, trying to jump on the mistake. I fixed this in just the manners you mentioned.

    I lowered the contact for the CPU and I increased the foul balls by the CPU, to accomplish two things. I get rewarded on a perfect pitch, by some swings and misses, but I get punished by the CPU making some great at-bats against me, with fouling off my really nasty stuff, and thereby increasing my pitch counts.

    I played a game this morning before work, and matched up the opening day starters with Price v Kluber in a Cleveland matchup. Price got out of the first inning with 6 pitches, and I started to lament your sentiments about unrealistic pitch counts, but I had to take him out after 7.1 with 98 pitches in a 6-5 game. I was pretty happy with that, and had I been smart, and let Tazawa throw his warm up pitches on the mound, I may have fared better, but Junichi gave up three runs in the 8th, and I blew a great game by Price.

    My goal every year with my sliders, is to make the game play just like you watch a game on TV. I am nine games into this season, and I have the gameplay itself dialed in to where I feel the games plays as close to the real thing as I can make it. I am a Pitch Speed Zero guy as well, so my ability to work walks against the CPU pitcher is based on actually getting to see the movement of the pitches with the lowered speed.

    If you are really feeling randy, set your pitch control at Zero and then bring both pitch speeds down to zero, and play a game that way. It is not that much slower than default, but it is slow enough that when you recognize the curveball as such, and you realize that as it starts to break, it cannot be in the zone, you’ll get some moments at the plate where you are commending the CPU pitcher on some nasty stuff, but you will revel in your ability to lay off, increase his pitch count, and wait for something fat to swat.

    I can PM you my 2016 Version of my Ultra-Real set, and I urge you to play three games, and give yourself enough time to actually play them as you would manage a real game.

    You’ll need to move defenses around, as I have the fielders’ speeds tuned down to really highlight the fast guys, and you’ll pay dearly for guys who have lost a step. I have throwing speed and accuracy down to realistic levels, and if you are an Analog fielder like me, those throws from deep short to first will get the juices flowing…The result is baserunners out by a half step when they ought to be, and I think you’ll really, really enjoy the realistic outcomes of the plays as they pan out on the field.

    The last piece to my ultra-realistic jigsaw puzzle was the pitching, and with these Accuracy and Consistency Sliders at Zero, coupled with the CPU contact down and foul balls up, you can start to see some real challenges blossom at the pitcher/batter duals.

    Enjoy the game, and feel free to bounce some ideas for slider tweaks off me.
    ~syf
    I would love to see your sliders as well.

    Sent from my LG G2 using Tapatalk
    Milwaukee Brewers | Green Bay Packers | North Carolina Tar Heels | Wisconsin Badgers

    Comment

    • KBLover
      Hall Of Fame
      • Aug 2009
      • 12172

      #17
      Re: Itbeme23 True Simulation Sliders - 2016

      At 0/0 do you actually feel the difference in pitcher ratings? i.e. if I have a pitcher with 85 BB/9 and 87 Control vs one with 50 BB/9 and 54 Control - will there be a difference in how well they locate?

      I'm all for more walks, but every time I tried lowering control/consistency before - my good pitchers just pitch like bad pitchers and the average guys stand no chance. BABIPs also shot through the roof.

      And the insult to injury was I didn't get more walks - I got more misses down the middle and was pitching like I was using Bastardo and his 8 BB/9 with whoever I was pitching with - just all over the place and enough pitches down the middle to get killed on 3-ball counts.

      It's funny - I lower it for the CPU, I get more walks. I lower it for me, and I give up meatballs, still get Ks and no more walks. I end up with 8 hits and 8 Ks in 5 innings with 6 runs or some stuff.

      Is it different in MLB16 with how control/consistency work for the human on Classic pitching?
      "Some people call it butterflies, but to him, it probably feels like pterodactyls in his stomach." --Plesac in MLB18

      Comment

      • stealyerface
        MVP
        • Feb 2004
        • 1803

        #18
        Re: Itbeme23 True Simulation Sliders - 2016

        For me, the 0/0 makes me attack the zone when I need to, but it also forces me to make pitches that are meant to be balls.

        That is the key to realistic pitch counts, in that sometimes, IRL, you need to throw a ball. And what I think The Show has done very well, is have situations when the count is 0-2 or 1-2, and the CPU batter will actually chase a ball he has no chance of hitting. Ahh.. but Young Grasshopper, one must throw an un-hittable ball, to get a batter to swing and miss an un-hittable ball.

        Koji’s splitter, and Kimbrel’s 4-seamer sometimes need to be unhittable to be effective. If you are nibbling corners every pitch, and using the strike zone to make pitches, you are going to get pummeled.

        I play with no visual feedback, so I am just feeling for the vibration. The trick, and the key to success, is learning where to go for the pitch to miss outside the zone, but close enough to possibly look enticing.

        Let’s say you are a righty, and you want to throw a two seamer in under the wrists of a lefty. If you go to the very first signs of vibration, and release that two-seamer just a fraction too late, it’ll tail hard across the heart of the plate, and you’ll have a loooong day. Release it too soon, and you run the risk of hitting him, and giving away a free bag.

        So, you need to miss on purpose, with the controller vibrating like crazy, and making sure you hold on just a little too long, thereby missing the zone, between the batter’s knee, and the inside edge of the plate. This is where you get that sweet “tied-up” looking swing, and if he does make contact, it is a weak dribble to second.

        Oh, but not so fast… If you miss that pitch by not aiming far enough inside, or you do not execute that release correctly, the down and in hotspot to the lefty will end up 500 feet into the right field bleachers… So care must be taken.

        In a nutshell, 0/0 makes me earn every pitch. Every single one. Just like you have to earn them in real life. This is what drew me away from the other pitch pitching modes, as once you learned the technique of the mini-game, Joe Kelly could pitch a game like David Price. The ratings were not a large enough factor to make you really squeamish about facing the Blue Jays lineup a couple times through. You hit the Analog pullback just right, and every pitch was a strike.

        Not the case here. Price’s ratings make the pitch that becomes a meatball, just a bit better. Kelly’s rating make that mistake a BIG one. If I take Joe Kelly out there, go seven strong, give up four hits and a run, I want to feel like I went through the ringer, plotting an attack for every pitch, every hitter, and every defensive situation.

        Two key factors drive me to these settings:
        1. When you make a mistake, and you know it, and the ball goes right down the middle, and the batter just misses it and fouls it back, that feeling you get like, “Oh ****, thank goodness he missed that”.
        2. And when you are a pitch away from getting out of a jam, and you obviously messed up the release, and the ball gets jacked out, you say, “Well, I deserved that, and it was totally my fault”.

        How much more could we possible ask, for a game that gives you a carnival ride out on the mound?

        I don’t throw rocks at the guys that play the other pitching modes, but I perfected the Pulse (by counting out loud), the Meter is too easy to manipulate, and Analog got to be no fun when my worst pitcher had pinpoint control.

        So to answer your question, Yes, the ratings play a huge role in the starter’s ability to do what you want with the ball (as it should) and it makes a big difference in who and where you play guys defensively, and accordingly.

        Give it a shot, you’ll love the ride.
        ~syf
        "Ain't gonna learn what you don't wanna know"....GD

        Comment

        • knich
          MVP
          • Jan 2005
          • 1116

          #19
          Re: Itbeme23 True Simulation Sliders - 2016

          Originally posted by stealyerface
          Don't forget that you now get Classic Pitching Feedback, so you can learn where to "feel" the release point with each guy on your staff, and learn how to make that ball move where you want it to.
          I am not familiar with the feedback. Do we have to turn something on? How does it work? The only vibration I feel is when you are directing pitch outside strike zone.

          Comment

          • KBLover
            Hall Of Fame
            • Aug 2009
            • 12172

            #20
            Re: Itbeme23 True Simulation Sliders - 2016

            Oh I'm definitely a Classic pitcher. The fact it's the most ratings-oriented was enough to sell me on it way back to MLB06 when I first played the series.

            The thing I fear, and when I've tried it before with very low settings, is that it just made more down the middle - and getting ratings to express MLB-style rates/frequencies.

            With control/consistency up - I can pitch like you describe more like a big leaguer - intentionally miss, throw crap on 0-2 and such, and I do get that "thank god he missed" it it does leak over the plate (or I mis-aim) - likewise i had a game where Dominic Brown got 6 RBI and 2 HR off me because stupid me kept wanting to bust him inside and I didn't get it in far enough.

            I do use all levels of "effort". "Vibration level", "get me over taps", etc.

            I just wonder about those Brown at-bats being balls right down the middle instead of not far enough in - the second scenario is more realistically common, the first is the common one in The Show. When I gave up those bombs and look at where the pitch was - I'm like, yep, it was inner-third instead of on the black/just inside.

            I will give 0/0 a try next game I play (probably soon) and see how it goes. The pitcher due to start for me is a pitch-to-contact finesse type (95 H/9, 70 BB/9, 32 K/9, 70 control, 60 (I think) movement.

            Hopefully, that H/9 still gets to express itself if I manage to execute correctly. I tried it a few times in MLB15 and gave up 11 hits in 4 innings and 8 hits in 3 innings - and hard contact even if the pitches were in pitcher's spots (Control impacts how "fooled" the hitters are according to the description). I wonder if I'll have to lower CPU contact/timing (currently I have 6 contact, 8 power, 8 timing, 4 solid hits for CPU). My ace power type did okay in MLB15 with low control/consistency...except he got next to no K's...with a 95 K/9 rating.
            "Some people call it butterflies, but to him, it probably feels like pterodactyls in his stomach." --Plesac in MLB18

            Comment

            • Armor and Sword
              The Lama
              • Sep 2010
              • 21789

              #21
              Re: Itbeme23 True Simulation Sliders - 2016

              Originally posted by stealyerface
              For me, the 0/0 makes me attack the zone when I need to, but it also forces me to make pitches that are meant to be balls.

              That is the key to realistic pitch counts, in that sometimes, IRL, you need to throw a ball. And what I think The Show has done very well, is have situations when the count is 0-2 or 1-2, and the CPU batter will actually chase a ball he has no chance of hitting. Ahh.. but Young Grasshopper, one must throw an un-hittable ball, to get a batter to swing and miss an un-hittable ball.

              Koji’s splitter, and Kimbrel’s 4-seamer sometimes need to be unhittable to be effective. If you are nibbling corners every pitch, and using the strike zone to make pitches, you are going to get pummeled.

              I play with no visual feedback, so I am just feeling for the vibration. The trick, and the key to success, is learning where to go for the pitch to miss outside the zone, but close enough to possibly look enticing.

              Let’s say you are a righty, and you want to throw a two seamer in under the wrists of a lefty. If you go to the very first signs of vibration, and release that two-seamer just a fraction too late, it’ll tail hard across the heart of the plate, and you’ll have a loooong day. Release it too soon, and you run the risk of hitting him, and giving away a free bag.

              So, you need to miss on purpose, with the controller vibrating like crazy, and making sure you hold on just a little too long, thereby missing the zone, between the batter’s knee, and the inside edge of the plate. This is where you get that sweet “tied-up” looking swing, and if he does make contact, it is a weak dribble to second.

              Oh, but not so fast… If you miss that pitch by not aiming far enough inside, or you do not execute that release correctly, the down and in hotspot to the lefty will end up 500 feet into the right field bleachers… So care must be taken.

              In a nutshell, 0/0 makes me earn every pitch. Every single one. Just like you have to earn them in real life. This is what drew me away from the other pitch pitching modes, as once you learned the technique of the mini-game, Joe Kelly could pitch a game like David Price. The ratings were not a large enough factor to make you really squeamish about facing the Blue Jays lineup a couple times through. You hit the Analog pullback just right, and every pitch was a strike.

              Not the case here. Price’s ratings make the pitch that becomes a meatball, just a bit better. Kelly’s rating make that mistake a BIG one. If I take Joe Kelly out there, go seven strong, give up four hits and a run, I want to feel like I went through the ringer, plotting an attack for every pitch, every hitter, and every defensive situation.

              Two key factors drive me to these settings:
              1. When you make a mistake, and you know it, and the ball goes right down the middle, and the batter just misses it and fouls it back, that feeling you get like, “Oh ****, thank goodness he missed that”.
              2. And when you are a pitch away from getting out of a jam, and you obviously messed up the release, and the ball gets jacked out, you say, “Well, I deserved that, and it was totally my fault”.

              How much more could we possible ask, for a game that gives you a carnival ride out on the mound?

              I don’t throw rocks at the guys that play the other pitching modes, but I perfected the Pulse (by counting out loud), the Meter is too easy to manipulate, and Analog got to be no fun when my worst pitcher had pinpoint control.

              So to answer your question, Yes, the ratings play a huge role in the starter’s ability to do what you want with the ball (as it should) and it makes a big difference in who and where you play guys defensively, and accordingly.

              Give it a shot, you’ll love the ride.

              ~syf
              Listen to this guy......he knows.

              Great points and exactly how I approach Classic pitching and why it is truly the most realistic way to have player ratings as the primary driver in the outcome, but user input is critical to success as well!!!!

              When you pitch in real life the ball does not always go where you want it. You will make mistake pitches. Also don't be afraid to walk great hitters. Just don't give in to them if you have a base open. Of course situation drives that strategy...but if no one is on and I have Rizzo up......I will not give him something to hit. No way. But even sometimes when I aim out of the zone....a mistake pitch can happen in classic and boom. Sometimes your Ace will not have his stuff.

              Where as in Meter, Analog and Pulse it is the user who is not being sharp with his button and stick skills. I am not ragging on those interfaces at all. It's just personal preference and what you want out of the game.

              I loved meter on MVP 2005...but it got to the point I was a God with 4th and 5th rotation starters.


              Great Post.
              Now Playing on PS5:
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              Comment

              • Armor and Sword
                The Lama
                • Sep 2010
                • 21789

                #22
                Re: Itbeme23 True Simulation Sliders - 2016

                Itbeme23,

                What is your house rule on 3 ball counts. I am very curious. I get decent user walk totals...but they can always be better no doubt. CPU walk totals are great.

                Thanks man.
                Now Playing on PS5:
                CFB 26 Hurricanes/Fresno State Year 2
                MLB The Show 25 - 2025 Yankees Year 1
                MLB The Show 25 1985 Yankees Year 1
                Oblivion Remaster



                Follow me on Twitch
                https://www.twitch.tv/armorandsword

                Comment

                • stealyerface
                  MVP
                  • Feb 2004
                  • 1803

                  #23
                  Re: Itbeme23 True Simulation Sliders - 2016

                  I've had Bucholz have 12K games, and then go out the next start, and give up 5 in an inning, and I pull him.

                  I do believe, and have always contended, that there is a dice-roll algorithm for the starters' effectiveness.

                  If this is indeed the case, and they are mimicking days where you "have it" and days you don't, I appreciate that they put it in there, without making it feel cheap.

                  You can try this out by being the home team, and pitching the top half of the first inning and restarting the game five times. You'll see one game, full fastball might be 93 mph, and the next game, you can hit 95. Plus, the breaking ball will be a diving horror show one game, and a spinning turd the next... Maybe it is a self fulfilling prophecy, but I feel like I notice a difference between starts... Kudos if so, and if not, oh well...

                  **KBLover, IMO your CPU settings are too high for Contact, and too low for Solid Hits. Swap them. 4 for the Contact, and 6 for Solid hits. You'll see the CPU miss pitches they ought to, and make you pay dearly for mistakes. **

                  Don't give the CPU the advantage by making contact with great pitches. Give it the advantage by solidly smacking the bad ones.

                  Give that a try, and let me know what you think.

                  ~syf
                  Last edited by stealyerface; 03-31-2016, 02:42 PM.
                  "Ain't gonna learn what you don't wanna know"....GD

                  Comment

                  • KBLover
                    Hall Of Fame
                    • Aug 2009
                    • 12172

                    #24
                    Re: Itbeme23 True Simulation Sliders - 2016

                    Originally posted by stealyerface
                    I've had Bucholz have 12K games, and then go out the next start, and give up 5 in an inning, and I pull him.

                    I do believe, and have always contended, that there is a dice-roll algorithm for the starters' effectiveness.
                    There is. It's there for all pitchers, imo. It reminds me of the Variable Stuff from MVP05.

                    I see it in the pitch confidence meters especially. I can also tell when my guys are "off" or at least "out of sync" for a while.

                    For example Boeve, my drafted ace I've groomed since MLB14, when he's on throws 102 when he's on and just about every 4-seamer is 100. When he's off - he's not breaking 100. His offspeed is off the mark, and I can't locate with him. He ends up being almost one-pitch. He can "get by" like that but it's not the same as when he's on.

                    (This is with high control/consistency even lol)

                    Sometimes that finesse guy will strike out just way too many hitters. Sometimes he's going through a game like 7 IP, 9 H, 4 R, 1 BB, 1 K lol.

                    I don't do pitch warmups for this reason. If they just let you get the feel of your guy that night, that's one thing, but they change pitch confidence when you throw strikes.



                    Originally posted by stealyerface
                    **KBLover, IMO your CPU settings are too high for Contact, and too low for Solid Hits. Swap them. 4 for the Contact, and 6 for Solid hits. You'll see the CPU miss pitches they ought to, and make you pay dearly for mistakes. **

                    Don't give the CPU the advantage by making contact with great pitches. Give it the advantage by solidly smacking the bad ones.

                    Give that a try, and let me know what you think.

                    ~syf

                    I just finished a game at 0/0. Marlins (me) @ Coors. Huff (fictional finesse guy) vs Chacin (real life finesse guy).

                    Was a pitcher's duel through six - I'm down 1-0 with both teams at 4 hits. Then the offenses woke up. It's like the hitters were like "hey, we're at ******** Coors!". Took a 3-1 lead only to give it up in the bottom half on a 2-run triple.

                    I take the lead in 8th with Davis hitting a 2-run bomb. Give it up in the 9th when my closer Leone came out flat. 5-5 heading to extras. Got 2 in the 11th and Rondon struck out the side to seal it.

                    Huff: 7 IP, 6 H, 3 R, 1 BB, 2 K.
                    Team line: 11 IP, 8 H, 5 R, 2 BB, 8 K.

                    I'll make the switch on those CPU settings.
                    "Some people call it butterflies, but to him, it probably feels like pterodactyls in his stomach." --Plesac in MLB18

                    Comment

                    • stealyerface
                      MVP
                      • Feb 2004
                      • 1803

                      #25
                      Re: Itbeme23 True Simulation Sliders - 2016

                      Great start!

                      Did you enjoy the game style? I am a pitcher, so I love the defensive game, so I would be very happy with those lines.

                      Now, swap the Contact and the Solid for the CPU, and do me one more favour.

                      Now set your Pitching Skill level to Legend.

                      Play two games.

                      Report back with finding and feelings.
                      ~syf
                      "Ain't gonna learn what you don't wanna know"....GD

                      Comment

                      • KBLover
                        Hall Of Fame
                        • Aug 2009
                        • 12172

                        #26
                        Re: Itbeme23 True Simulation Sliders - 2016

                        Yeah I did. I like how the game played out. Nothing seemed too cheap or "WTF" inducing.

                        Legend? Legend?!

                        Well...we'll see. I have bad bad bad memories trying HoF on classic pitching...and now I'm going to try Legend.
                        "Some people call it butterflies, but to him, it probably feels like pterodactyls in his stomach." --Plesac in MLB18

                        Comment

                        • DarthRambo
                          MVP
                          • Mar 2008
                          • 6630

                          #27
                          Re: Itbeme23 True Simulation Sliders - 2016

                          I tried the pitcher control/consistency at 0/0 for a game. Mind you, I already have it set low at 2/1...

                          Angels vs A's, I'm the Angels. Also I must point out I strictly use quick counts because I need to finish games quicker with a one year old, and helps draw more walks on both sides. I truly feel quick coubts is the best feature ever implented in a sports game, period. I finished this game in 45min with an 11-4 final score.

                          Anyways, my walks were definitely up this game! Starting pitchers were M. Shoemaker for the Angels vs C. Bassitt for the A's.

                          Shoemaker as a 4th starter was tremendous after the 1st inning where he gave up 2 runs early. His final line was:
                          8ip 2h 3er 3bb 10k 103 pitches.

                          Bassitt started well but the 6th inning was rough. Final line:
                          5.1ip 7h 5er 3bb 7k. Their bullpen struggled too, pitching 2.2ip 5h 6er 4bb 1k as a whole, with Rodriguez walking 3 himself.

                          I walked only 3, and struckout 11 total (cpu hitting sliders at 5). They walked me 7 times with 8 strikeouts.

                          I think 0/0 will be fine for user, but 0/1 for cpu might be best. They hit two batters in the game too which would technically be 9 walks with those.

                          I hit on Veteran, and Allstar pitching. And again I play strictly quick counts, but in my experience a good slider set will work fine with or without using QC.
                          https://www.youtube.com/DarthRambo

                          Comment

                          • DarthRambo
                            MVP
                            • Mar 2008
                            • 6630

                            #28
                            Re: Itbeme23 True Simulation Sliders - 2016

                            Now playing Astros @ Red Sox. This time Keuchel vs Price to test out pitching sliders. 0/0 for user, 0/1 for cpu. Pitching on Allstar, hitting on Veteran. Using quick counts.

                            Update: Scoreless game through 5 innings. Gotta go eat with the fam. Finish when I get back. Definitely a pitchers duel! Keuchel has forced me into three gidp, killing any momentum. Price striking boys out all game.

                            I'm thinking of lowering human contact to 4 on Veteran level. I don't swing and miss enough imo.
                            Last edited by DarthRambo; 03-31-2016, 08:42 PM.
                            https://www.youtube.com/DarthRambo

                            Comment

                            • KBLover
                              Hall Of Fame
                              • Aug 2009
                              • 12172

                              #29
                              Re: Itbeme23 True Simulation Sliders - 2016

                              Originally posted by IrishSalsa
                              I think 0/0 will be fine for user, but 0/1 for cpu might be best. They hit two batters in the game too which would technically be 9 walks with those.
                              The HBP/WP is why I don't like low consistency for CPU if you keep it low control (which I prefer). 6 or 7 consistency (can't decide which is better, but 6 might be fine) is what I use. Helps keep the HBP/WP down most of the time. I keep CPU control low (not zero but it's low).
                              "Some people call it butterflies, but to him, it probably feels like pterodactyls in his stomach." --Plesac in MLB18

                              Comment

                              • ninertravel
                                MVP
                                • Aug 2015
                                • 4833

                                #30
                                Re: Itbeme23 True Simulation Sliders - 2016

                                I don't think you need much change on your 15 sliders, that I have used so much variety just like MLB I have had 1-0 wins 2-1 wins last night a 7-4 win I hit Hammels for 5 runs in the first innings, the key is to play as different teams different stadiums different pitchers. and I am getting a variety of games. with Aces being great and Aces having a bad day, or not as good pitchers having a good day. I am striking out a lot more but I have been chasing to much.

                                Sam issue as before though where CPU will take out starters out to soon if the game is close regardless of pitch count, even if set to 0, then they leave RP in to long and you gotta change the slider halfway through the game!

                                ONE thing I have noticed is I am seeing a HELL of a lot of passed balls this year I hardly seen any last year Could that be tied in with the errors slider??? Seem to get caught stealing more too anyone know the league % last year of stealing and caught stealing?

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