An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

[Manny_Shevitz]

Re: An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

Of course you can bypass any onscreen pitching help and just go by the pitchers actual release. That's the way i like to pitch, as real as it can get.

Not only is it the most realistic way to pitch, but it also illustrates another way in which the gameplay is so interactive in PYS. Because you're involved in the whole process of the pitch. You hit the button once to start the pitcher's windup, and then you hit it again as close as possible to the pitcher's release point in order to get the best results. I love that.

[NotoriousReignz]

Re: An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

To me, it still feels easy to hit your spots with the lower rated pitchers, but they will get hit a lot harder as apposed to an ace.

[Prometheus]

Re: An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

As I mentioned in another thread I have a copy of PYS2011 headed my way. After reading this thread I am really pumped to receive my game and give it a try.

I played The Show in 07,08, and 10 but have been looking to try something different. I was hoping that MLB2K11 would hit the spot last year but that didn't happen. A real shame because I think there is a good baseball trying to get out from under all the glitches. Excellent presentation but not worth the $59.99 price tag.

I'm looking forward to discovering all the nuances of PYS and the translation site is top notch. I've waded through numerous FAQs for Japanese pro wrestling games, but I don't think I've ever come across as thorough a site as spiritstranslation.com.

[tvman]

Re: An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

To me, it still feels easy to hit your spots with the lower rated pitchers, but they will get hit a lot harder as apposed to an ace.

Have you tried pitching w/o the cursor and timing mechanism?

[NotoriousReignz]

Re: An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

No I haven't, I like using a cursor.

[Pielet]

I think Manny you undersell the presentation side of PYS

Its got situational statistics galore (righty vs left, vs team, inter league, base running, vs pitchers, etc)

It does a good job of representing what I'd think an NPB broadcast appears. Even the various 7th inning stretch celebrations (fireworks, balloons, etc). Post game interviews with players of the game, post game box score and pitching summaries, etc.

[Manny_Shevitz]

Re: An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

I think Manny you undersell the presentation side of PYS

Its got situational statistics galore (righty vs left, vs team, inter league, base running, vs pitchers, etc)

It does a good job of representing what I'd think an NPB broadcast appears. Even the various 7th inning stretch celebrations (fireworks, balloons, etc). Post game interviews with players of the game, post game box score and pitching summaries, etc.

I definitely didn't mean to undersell it. I thought I made it clear that I actually prefer the presentation in PYS to The Show, because it offers just enough of a broadcast feel, without going overboard and slowing down the game. The situational statistics are very authentic looking, but for someone who can't read Japanese at all, they're not particularly useful, so I didn't mention them. I should have, however, mentioned the 7th inning stretch celebrations, which are fantastic, and the post game interviews, which are also great.

[jmount78]

Re: An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

I do have to ask about understanding the Japanese writing. I have looked at the one website that is in English for Japanese baseball leagues, which is excellent. I am confused about whether or not there is an option in PYS for English subtitles. If there isn't are you guys just memorizing what each category is and the stats that go along with it?

[lhslancers]

Re: An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

I do have to ask about understanding the Japanese writing. I have looked at the one website that is in English for Japanese baseball leagues, which is excellent. I am confused about whether or not there is an option in PYS for English subtitles. If there isn't are you guys just memorizing what each category is and the stats that go along with it?

You will find it helpful to have the spirits translation website open while you play if you are interested in the stats and attributes. If you just want to play the game once you learn a few commands it it easy to play. You get to know the positions of the basic menus after a short time.

[simgamer0005]

Re: An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

If too much reliance is placed on statistical analysis, the variety of outcomes would feel too arbitrary. The challenge with this design philosophy, in contrast to the challenge faced by The Show developers, is "With so much control put in the hands of the user, how do we make each individual player's attributes and year-to-year statistics matter? How do we make each at-bat 'feel' different?" And here is where I think the brilliance of the PYS series really shines through. Not that it's perfect. Not that the game doesn't have to sacrifice some degree of statistical accuracy in order to make sure that the player is in complete control, but the amount of realism that it sacrifices is, in my opinion, very small, and absolutely worth it because of the level of fun that the game provides. The simplest way to explain how the system works in PYS is this: every aspect of the batter's attributes and every aspect of the pitcher's attributes takes effect before the pitch is thrown and before the bat is swung.

I like the way you described this. yes the cursor batting and pitcher timing mechanism factor in to batter attributes and pitcher attributes "before the pitch is thrown and before the bat is swung". so you are in full control based on the range of the individual player. The size of the cursor for the batter gives you full control given the range of the batter bat contact skill. and for pitching, the timing mechanism and repertoire of the pitcher reflects the pitcher's skill, so you have less error or more error in your timing and placement based on how good the pitcher is. i just love this about PYS.

[Pielet]

Re: An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

I do have to ask about understanding the Japanese writing. I have looked at the one website that is in English for Japanese baseball leagues, which is excellent. I am confused about whether or not there is an option in PYS for English subtitles. If there isn't are you guys just memorizing what each category is and the stats that go along with it?

The basic japanese you will pick up.

Right - 右
Left - 左
Middle - 中

In game box scores show a double to right as
右2
etc

Positionally for defense
1b 一
2b 二
3b 三
etc

The stat lines are similar to us stat lines so

.316 23 83

means just what you think it does with the kanji next to it.


For statistics from the menu use spiritstranslation

[jmount78]

Re: An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

Thanks Pielet and lhslancers! I appreciate the summary of basic Japanese labels and I will have the website open when I get PYS 11!

[ripwalk]

Re: An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

Ok, I was going to get into other aspects of both games, such as sliders versus no sliders, difficulty options, presentation, etc., but this post is getting really long (I warned you guys that I can be long-winded), and I don't know how many people are even going to read it. I'd love it if some other people who play or have played both games would chime in with some of their thoughts on this, and feel free to challenge me on any areas where you think I may be off base. And I apologize if attempting to read through this puts people to sleep. I'm having a slow day at work.

I'd really appreciate if you could get into all the details you mention above! I'm on the fence about deciding whether or not I should give this game a try. I love the Show but feel I might enjoy this type of niche game too! The more info the better!

[Manny_Shevitz]

Re: An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

I'd really appreciate if you could get into all the details you mention above! I'm on the fence about deciding whether or not I should give this game a try. I love the Show but feel I might enjoy this type of niche game too! The more info the better!

Sure. I've been meaning to add to this thread, but I had a busy weekend.

One big difference between PYS and The Show is that PYS has no gameplay sliders. ZERO. Well, ok, there are a couple of difficulty settings that you could almost think of as sliders, but I'll get to that in a bit.

First let me take a minute to confess that I absolutely hate gameplay sliders. Hate them. They give me fits. In fact, before deciding whether or not to purchase a sports game, I will usually go to the OS sliders forum for that game and see how many different slider sets have been posted. The more I see, the less likely I am to buy that game. You see, I have this crazy notion that it is the game developers' job to make sure their gameplay is balanced and realistic. So whenever I read a post that says something along the lines of "You can get this game to play a pretty realistic game of baseball/football/hockey/etc. with THIS slider set," that translates in my head as "This game, out of the box, is broken."

Now I know there are a lot of people who would disagree with me. Many players love having the option to tweak little aspects of gameplay here and there, in order to try and achieve what they think is the most sim-like experience, or, for players who are weak in a specific area of gameplay, to help balance out the difficulty. And I get that. But I think there are more optimal ways of achieving that balance than having a hundred different sliders, the functions of which are vague, and in many cases counter-intuitive.

With Pro Yakyuu Spirits, you have very balanced gameplay right out of the box. Both baserunning and fielding feel just right, without any blatant examples of a baserunner being able to take more bases than he should on a shallow hit, or an outfielder throwing out a runner that he never in a million years should have been able to throw out. At the same time, fielders' attributes really matter in this game. While I do think that starting with 11, and especially with 12, fielding in The Show has improved greatly, I don't think it compares to how great the fielding is in PYS. On the one hand, the fielding controls are so simple and intuitive that if the last baseball videogame you played was Bases Loaded, you would have no trouble with fielding in PYS. On the other hand, each player's attributes play such an important role in how well you'll be able to field the ball that sim purists would have nothing to complain about. If defensive strategy and positioning are as important to you as pitching and hitting, you will fall in love with this game. There are no complicated throwing inputs. If a weak grounder is hit to the shortstop and you pre-load the throw to 2nd to start a double-play, your shortstop is going to throw the ball with just the right amount of urgency and force, assuming he's a good shortstop. There are never any weird fielding glitches. No unrealistic fielder hesitations that cost you a throw out. Fielding in PYS is intuitive and fun, without sacrificing realism.

Ok, I have to get some work done, so I'll stop here. But as soon as I have a chance I'll go into detail about the different difficulty settings that are available in PYS, and why I think they do a much better job of letting you customize the game to your playing tendencies and strengths/weaknesses, without creating imbalances in other areas of the game, than sliders in The Show do.

Or let me know if you have a question about a specific aspect of gameplay, presentation, etc., and I'll answer it if I can.

[lhslancers]

Re: An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

One of the great things about this series among many is the way the developers have handled the illusion of the perfect amount of acreage in the outfield. The list goes on I urge anyone on the fence to wait a bit and buy 2011 on the cheap used.

The hitting fielding and pitching are handled perfectly and simply.