An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

[lhslancers]

Re: An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

Yes, it answered my question quite well - thank you!

I'll have to try finding a copy. Yeah, I won't be going to the easier pitching difficulties if only because I like trying to draw walks - and, well, can't do that if you're not getting balls I'd probably be arguing with myself about which of the Hards I like - I see something I like in all three of them on those pitch charts at the Spirits Translation site.

Is there anything particularly different about any of the recent versions (just in case I can't get 13 without paying a mint)? Anything significantly lost in features/gameplay with, say, any version from 2010 onward?

I haven't played 13 but have 4-12 all but 12 bought from Japanese sellers on eBay.
After playing The Show for about a year and a half now I could not go back to PYS. I do not care for the hitting mechanic at all. Too old maybe. Overall I liked the game but a few things did bother me about it. If the devs could put a decent Timing hitting option in like The Show has I would be willing to take another whack at it but not for 90 bucks.

[Manny_Shevitz]

Re: An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

Yes, it answered my question quite well - thank you!

I'll have to try finding a copy. Yeah, I won't be going to the easier pitching difficulties if only because I like trying to draw walks - and, well, can't do that if you're not getting balls I'd probably be arguing with myself about which of the Hards I like - I see something I like in all three of them on those pitch charts at the Spirits Translation site.

Is there anything particularly different about any of the recent versions (just in case I can't get 13 without paying a mint)? Anything significantly lost in features/gameplay with, say, any version from 2010 onward?

I'll tell you why I think 2013 is the best version, and in the process, give some of the pros and cons of 2010 - 2012.

Starting with graphics, 2013 takes all of the visual improvements that 2011 and 2012 made, and gives it a nice spit shine. It's nothing like the leap that the graphics made from 2010 to 2011/2012, just a few textures here and there, and an overall increase in sharpness. The crowds in 2013 are also the best looking of any version. The one area of graphics that did receive a pretty significant improvement is in the batting and pitching animations. The animations in PYS were already great, but 2013 took things a step further.

Gameplay, generally speaking, is overall the most polished in 2013. There's very little in the way of baserunning or fielding AI that will have you scratching your head. Maybe the CPU pitchers could be a little more aggressive in trying to pick off/hold up your baserunners, and it is virtually impossible to get HBPs, either when pitching or by a CPU pitcher, but those are minor things compared to everything the game does right. More specifically, and what really elevates 2013 above its predecessors, are the improvements that were made to the pitching mechanics. Jimbo touched on this briefly a few posts back, but I'll elaborate on it. If there was one gameplay weakness that all previous versions of PYS shared, it was that throwing accurate pitches, regardless of who you were pitching with, was a little too easy. Basically, even if your release timing was off, your pitch was still going to more or less go where you aimed it. This made it fairly easy to paint the corners every game, whether you had your ace on the mound or not. Well, 2013 changed all that. Now your release timing is more important than ever, and can mean the difference between a perfect curveball that drops just out of reach, or a meatball that hangs over the plate. And the results of a mistimed release are a lot more pronounced if you've got a less skilled pitcher on the mound. I cannot stress enough how much this improved an already excellent game. Whereas in previous versions, your pitching rotation and bullpen could more or less be an afterthought, now it is just as important as your lineup or subbing in your best defensive players in the later innnings of a close game.

As far as features go, there aren't many differences from one version to the next. I think it was 2012 that introduced the ability to play a multi-season Pennant (Franchise?) mode, and added a post-season and a draft, so if that's important to you, you don't want to get 2010 or 2011. Again, 2013 improved on this by incorporating a much more intuitive and useful player development system, similar to the one that Powerful Pro uses.

The upshot of all this is, if it is within your means, even if you have to forego buying a couple of other games to justify the purchase, get PYS 2013. It is well worth the extra cost. If, on the other hand, you are just dead set against the idea of spending $80 on a single game, or your situation is such that you have to scrimp and save wherever you can, and you absolutely must go with a cheaper option, then my recommendation would be PYS 2010. After 2013, it has the most solid and balanced gameplay. If you're not overly concerned about graphics, and you don't mind that the rosters will be outdated by a few years, you'll have the most fun with 2010. Also, even though the rosters are outdated, 2010 was the last year that a lot of Japan's most exciting players were still with the NPB. Since then, many have retired or been scooped up by the MLB. If you're willing to sacrifice a little bit of CPU AI logic for much-improved graphics, get 2011. It's still a very solid game, with just a little bit of baserunning wonkiness, and toned-down hitting power. Finally, you should probably avoid 2012, unless you're a masochist. Konami made the CPU pitchers way too good at painting the corners, on top of increasing the size of the strike zone, and nerfing all of the hitters' attributes. They did fix some of this with subsequent updates, but batting against the CPU is still often an exercise in frustration.

The upshot to the upshot is get PYS 2013.

[Lap_Down]

Re: An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

^ There was a thread before that went into great detail about the differences between PYS 2012, 2011 and 2010... stuff like they changed the ball and other things like that. I can't seem to find it at the moment, but I remember reading it and it was very informative.

I haven't played 13 but have 4-12 all but 12 bought from Japanese sellers on eBay.
After playing The Show for about a year and a half now I could not go back to PYS. I do not care for the hitting mechanic at all. Too old maybe. Overall I liked the game but a few things did bother me about it. If the devs could put a decent Timing hitting option in like The Show has I would be willing to take another whack at it but not for 90 bucks.

Wow... you like totally went the opposite direction from me. LOL. One of the things I don't like about The Show is that sometimes I will feel that I hit the ball perfectly, but then I still won't get a hit... it is very frustrating. I haven't felt that yet with PYS... if I don't get a hit in PYS it feels like it is completely my fault... it could all just be in my head though.

Starting with graphics, 2013 takes all of the visual improvements that 2011 and 2012 made, and gives it a nice spit shine. It's nothing like the leap that the graphics made from 2010 to 2011/2012, just a few textures here and there, and an overall increase in sharpness.

If you're not overly concerned about graphics, and you don't mind that the rosters will be outdated by a few years, you'll have the most fun with 2010. Also, even though the rosters are outdated, 2010 was the last year that a lot of Japan's most exciting players were still with the NPB. Since then, many have retired or been scooped up by the MLB. If you're willing to sacrifice a little bit of CPU AI logic for much-improved graphics, get 2011. It's still a very solid game, with just a little bit of baserunning wonkiness, and toned-down hitting power.

I looked at some vids on youtube and was kinda stunned to see the graphical differences between PYS2010 and 2011. PYS2010 just looks like an updated and less blurry version of PYS4. PYS2011 on the other hand looks like an entirely different game almost. I don't think I could give up those 2011 graphics even for a better version of the game. LOL.

And one of the things I like better in PYS over The Show is that I think PYS has real sponsors in their stadiums. I don't know if it is still like that in the newer versions of the game though, but a small detail like that really helps with the immersion factor IMO.

[Manny_Shevitz]

Re: An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

Wow... you like totally went the opposite direction from me. LOL. One of the things I don't like about The Show is that sometimes I will feel that I hit the ball perfectly, but then I still won't get a hit... it is very frustrating. I haven't felt that yet with PYS... if I don't get a hit in PYS it feels like it is completely my fault... it could all just be in my head though.

It is definitely not all in your head. The batting engine in PYS uses very precise bat-on-ball physics, which puts you in control of if and how well you are going to hit the ball. The Show, on the other hand, takes most of the control out of your hands, and uses the batter's attributes and stats to determine the outcome of each swing. For baseball purists who obsess over realistic year-end stats for each player on a team, I guess that's a good thing. Personally, I just find it boring.

And one of the things I like better in PYS over The Show is that I think PYS has real sponsors in their stadiums. I don't know if it is still like that in the newer versions of the game though, but a small detail like that really helps with the immersion factor IMO.

Yes, PYS 2013 still uses real sponsors in their stadiums. Most of them are Japanese companies, naturally, but I think at least one stadium has a Coca-Cola sign.

[KBLover]

Re: An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

It is definitely not all in your head. The batting engine in PYS uses very precise bat-on-ball physics, which puts you in control of if and how well you are going to hit the ball. The Show, on the other hand, takes most of the control out of your hands, and uses the batter's attributes and stats to determine the outcome of each swing. For baseball purists who obsess over realistic year-end stats for each player on a team, I guess that's a good thing. Personally, I just find it boring.

Well - it doesn't really do that in regards to the just replicating the year-end stats, but it does get to feel like it's too much RNG sometimes, but I also tend to use Timing interface.

But you can still have over/underperformers. Longoria hit .390 for me last year. But Escobar barely broke the Mendoza line.

I do like that the batter attributes are used and meaningful, especially in Timing interface, so I have a reason to care if a guy has bad plate vision, etc - and they are used in PYS as well from your description so it's not as though attributes don't matter at all (which is saying a lot about PYS's execution - usually "total user control" systems allow the user to basically ignore the abilities of the player).

Unlike Triple Play where I could hit 30 HR with pitchers LOL

[Manny_Shevitz]

Re: An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

I do like that the batter attributes are used and meaningful, especially in Timing interface, so I have a reason to care if a guy has bad plate vision, etc - and they are used in PYS as well from your description so it's not as though attributes don't matter at all (which is saying a lot about PYS's execution - usually "total user control" systems allow the user to basically ignore the abilities of the player).

Yeah, that is why I feel like PYS is a tough sell for people who are used to The Show, and want attributes and stats to be meaningful. Until you actually start playing PYS, it's very difficult to grasp how batter attributes are, in fact, very meaningful, while still giving the player such a high degree of control. It's why I have so much respect for this game and the developers who make it; they really came up with such an elegant and refined set of mechanics.

I know I overstated The Show's lack of control, but like you said, it often feels like the results are random.

[Spirits Translation]

Re: An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

I looked at some vids on youtube and was kinda stunned to see the graphical differences between PYS2010 and 2011. PYS2010 just looks like an updated and less blurry version of PYS4. PYS2011 on the other hand looks like an entirely different game almost. I don't think I could give up those 2011 graphics even for a better version of the game. LOL.

The thing you have to consider about 2011 is that out of the box there were a few annoying bugs. They were fixed in a roster update which also nerfed offense because that was the year the NPB switched to a heavy ball. Thus, attributes were changed accordingly.

2010 was bug free and scoring was wide open. You had 1-0 pitching duels and 12-10 slug-fests, and all the great players (who are now MLB or retired) were in that version. In 2010 you also had the choice to switch from light, normal or heavy ball, they took that option away in 2011.

My favorites are 2010 and 2013. Even if you're new and bought 2013 I'd still say get 2010 because it's fun as heck and has the legendary players.

[lhslancers]

Re: An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

I think I will pick up 13 when the price comes down. I agree on 10. Really good game. The hitting in 11 and 12 was not fun esp 12 with nerfed hitting AND an expanded strike zone.

I know I am in a very small minority but I wish they could include a timing only hitting option like they have in The Show. They also really need more camera options for hitting. After play the US game the cam options are really stark.

[Manny_Shevitz]

Re: An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

I think I will pick up 13 when the price comes down. I agree on 10. Really good game. The hitting in 11 and 12 was not fun esp 12 with nerfed hitting AND an expanded strike zone.

I know I am in a very small minority but I wish they could include a timing only hitting option like they have in The Show. They also really need more camera options for hitting. After play the US game the cam options are really stark.

As much as I love the idea of more people getting into PYS, I would never want Konami to compromise their hitting mechanics in order to appeal to a broader audience. I know from your previous posts that you've struggled with the cursor-based system, and that's a shame, but in order for the developers to implement a viable timing-only hitting option, they would pretty much have to rebuild their game engine from the ground up. The entire game is built around physics-based bat-on-ball hitting mechanics. There would be no way to keep the current phyisics-based batting, while implementing a timing-only swing. How would the ball's trajectory be calculated? Konami's only choices would be to either make the hitting mechanics more like The Show's, and replace the current physics-based hitting with stat-based algorithms, basically killing what makes PYS so unique and fun, or build an entirely separate hitting engine, just for the timing-based option, which would be a huge expense, and require huge amounts of development time that would be better spent fine-tuning the existing gameplay.

Sorry, but I see no way in which Konami focusing on a timing-based option is a good idea.

[lhslancers]

Re: An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

That's OK too. The Show is more than enough for my baseball fix.

[KBLover]

Re: An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

There would be no way to keep the current phyisics-based batting, while implementing a timing-only swing. How would the ball's trajectory be calculated?

The same way PYS does it now.

The only difference is the accuracy of the batting cursor is predicated on the batter contact rating vs pitch/pitcher's rating(s) instead of user input. Batting with Ichiro would have the cursor be more accurate more often than hitting a below average player or very raw prospect who might have a F or G contact grade.

I don't see it as all that big a change. How the trajectory is calculated would be the same way as if the user put the cursor in that same spot vs the pitch's location.

I think it would be a viable option and would not have to replace the user-controlled cursor. It would be an option just like the PCS system is for The Show - I could control it or use timing only and the accuracy is based on ratings and the sliders (but since PYS doesn't use sliders, it would probably be even more pure and simple to understand).

[lhslancers]

Re: An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

Since PYS has no batting sliders like The Show has it is a bit hard for me to grasp how ratings really matter much since there is just so much user input.

I have played both games a lot and The Show replicates RL much more than PYS at least in my eyes.

[Manny_Shevitz]

Re: An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

I think it would be a viable option and would not have to replace the user-controlled cursor. It would be an option just like the PCS system is for The Show - I could control it or use timing only and the accuracy is based on ratings and the sliders (but since PYS doesn't use sliders, it would probably be even more pure and simple to understand).

I don't think it would be quite that simple. Granted, I'm not a software developer, and don't know much about programming, so I can't say for sure, but it seems to me that what you're describing would require a lot more work than you think.

The Show may offer different batting options, but the base mechanics in the hitting engine remain the same across the board. The PCS system, compared to timing only, may allow you to have some control over the general area of the strike zone where your batter will aim his bat, but the result of your swing will still be largely based on the batter's (and also the pitcher's) ratings. And there are occasionally instances in The Show where your batter might still get a hit, even if you weren't aiming the PCS cursor anywhere near the location of the pitch.

So I don't think it would be a simple matter for the PYS developers to implement a system where the players' ratings determine the accuracy of their swings. I believe, like I said, that they would have to build an entirely separate, more The Show-like, batting system, from the ground up, just for those who want a better timing-based option.

[lhslancers]

Re: An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

Hey Manny what is the last MLB The Show that you have played?

[saintjimbo1885]

Re: An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

Sadly, the more I play The Show the more frustrated I get with it and the more it feels like a random number generator.


The whole PCI thing is laughable as the amount of times I foul off pitches when it is nowhere near the ball is too many to count and yet with the very next pitch my PCI just misses the ball and yet it is a swing and a miss.


There are actually a lot of examples in The Show that highlight that it the CPU system that mostly decides the outcome not the user, essentially making it a forced simulator which is ok but doesn't half make it frustrating when your player has good timing, contact etc. yet the end result is that dribbler in front of home plate.


Likewise the whole ball physics system needs addressed so that the PCI actually represents something meaningful ie. I shouldn't be hitting home runs if the PCI is above the ball.


At times the show just feels completely scripted to me (fielding errors, pitcher suddenly can't hit the strike zone etc) and while yes it may replicate real life better, this is because the under the hood gameplay algorithims are forcing it upon you.

PYS isn't without its faults either, especially the fact the CPU hardly throws any balls if you use the pitch cursor and the lack of camera angles is also surprisng but I tend to find myself playing it more and more these days. Just a pity Konami couldn't make an English translated version so that I can enjoy all the stuff I don't understand... here's hoping we might see this on the PS4.

Can't wait to see what both games produce on the PS4 though!!